MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet - page 34.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

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New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: JackpotRacer on September 02, 2015, 02:02:03 AM

Quote from: RHavar on August 31, 2015, 06:39:18 PM

Quote from: ranlo on August 31, 2015, 06:25:27 PM

Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

If anyone wants to offer a 50% house edge, and users want to play a game where they're basically handing the casino money, I don't have a problem with it. But considering how highly unusual this is, I think they should take steps to make this extremely clear and explicit.

Showing the winning chance is good, but many people aren't fully aware of how this translates to house edge

just for me to understand this scenario. masterdice had 50% HE and how was the split of % between MP and masterdice?

App owner gets ~50% of House edge (or ~25% of the bet), moneypot gets ~50% of house edge. If the investor promotion is still going on, Moneypot gets nothing.

So while a normal app of 1% edge makes 0.5% of players bet, this app makes 25%. You see?

JackpotRacer

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Activity: 1974

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All Games incl Racer and Lottery game are Closed

Quote from: RHavar on August 31, 2015, 06:39:18 PM

Quote from: ranlo on August 31, 2015, 06:25:27 PM

Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

If anyone wants to offer a 50% house edge, and users want to play a game where they're basically handing the casino money, I don't have a problem with it. But considering how highly unusual this is, I think they should take steps to make this extremely clear and explicit.

Showing the winning chance is good, but many people aren't fully aware of how this translates to house edge

just for me to understand this scenario. masterdice had 50% HE and how was the split of % between MP and masterdice?

Altcoin4life

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Quote from: RHavar on September 01, 2015, 10:16:12 PM

To help clear up some confusion, here's a bit of an in-depth discussion of our privacy-oriented "cold address" feature:

https://blog.moneypot.com/cold-addresses/

(A real must, if depositing from services that don't allow gambling or you just want an additional layer of privacy)

Just another reason why using moneypot wallet for gambling is superior now I won't worry about coinbase getting all up in my business. Great job RHavar

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

To help clear up some confusion, here's a bit of an in-depth discussion of our privacy-oriented "cold address" feature:

https://blog.moneypot.com/cold-addresses/

(A real must, if depositing from services that don't allow gambling or you just want an additional layer of privacy)

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: steveds on September 01, 2015, 10:14:24 PM

haven't been on but that dosent mean i didn't notice the massive upgrade and app integergration. Pat yourself on the fucking back you deserved it Cheesy

thanks! Glad you like it

steveds

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

haven't been on but that dosent mean i didn't notice the massive upgrade and app integergration. Pat yourself on the fucking back you deserved it Cheesy

ranlo

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1007

Quote from: RHavar on September 01, 2015, 04:00:13 PM

Hey app developers, I would like to cut down on a lot of the spam we're seeing. I don't want to be overbearing, but there's some simple things we can do, so I don't need to start aggressively rate-limiting apps.

I'd appreciate if apps could start enforcing a minimum of a 1 bit (1e-6 btc) minimum bet, that way I can go ahead and deprecate satoshi-level bets (first by put a huge delay on sub-bit bets) and eventually remove it all together.

Also, I'll ask that people respect the server resources and not overly aggressively spam. (e.g. Don't hit /list-bets in a tight loop, when you can use socketpot to have push notifications on bets). When people are auto-betting small amounts (to put in perspective 1 bit is only $0.00023) try put sane delays in place. Also bets are inherently sequential (each bet, gives you the next provably fair hash to use) so parallelizing this is guaranteed to give errors, put considerable load on our servers for no purpose and make it harder for you to verify the bets.

On a more positive note, we've given out a total of 87.84 BTC in commissions to app developers! Keep it up!

Thanks!

=)

BB already slows bets of less than a bit, so hopefully they can keep allowing it (1 bet per second). It's one of the things that drew me to that site...

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Hey app developers, I would like to cut down on a lot of the spam we're seeing. I don't want to be overbearing, but there's some simple things we can do, so I don't need to start aggressively rate-limiting apps.

I'd appreciate if apps could start enforcing a minimum of a 1 bit (1e-6 btc) minimum bet, that way I can go ahead and deprecate satoshi-level bets (first by put a huge delay on sub-bit bets) and eventually remove it all together.

Also, I'll ask that people respect the server resources and not overly aggressively spam. (e.g. Don't hit /list-bets in a tight loop, when you can use socketpot to have push notifications on bets). When people are auto-betting small amounts (to put in perspective 1 bit is only $0.00023) try put sane delays in place. Also bets are inherently sequential (each bet, gives you the next provably fair hash to use) so parallelizing this is guaranteed to give errors, put considerable load on our servers for no purpose and make it harder for you to verify the bets.

On a more positive note, we've given out a total of 87.84 BTC in commissions to app developers! Keep it up!

Thanks!

=)

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: NLNico on September 01, 2015, 01:10:43 AM

Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

Precisely. Don't want MP supporting it.

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 01:09:06 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on September 01, 2015, 01:06:56 AM

Quote from: ndnh on September 01, 2015, 12:52:51 AM

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again.

Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

He's basically pushing this victimization thing that everyone's been on lately. Nothing is ever your fault. You bet on a site that made it clear you're disadvantaged? It's their fault and not yours. You ran out in front of a car in the middle of the night? Driver's fault. You shot yourself in the foot with a pistol? Gun maker's fault. Nothing is ever your fault -- always blame it on someone else.

You scam someone. Whose fault? Tongue

My view:
Well the one who got scammed is stupid. But you are guilty coz you did it.

Quote from: NLNico on September 01, 2015, 01:10:43 AM

TBH I think MP should just have a max HE of 5 - 10%. I mean it could be an advantage to have a higher HE, so the site can offer a higher max profit (for example a dynamic max profit like SafeDice.) But 50% is just crazy, even national lotteries are not that high. I don't see any reason to facilitate such high HE. Also, I think it would be good if there is a policy that the app should show HE when it's above let's say 2%.

Saying it's like a ponzi who is honest about being a ponzi, is correct. Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

I agree. There should be some kind of guidelines for an app. Most of the apps already follow it. MP follows the standard practices too.

It shows Moneypot to be more responsible towards players, in the least.

ranlo

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Activity: 1988

Merit: 1007

Quote from: ndnh on September 01, 2015, 01:12:49 AM

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:59:06 AM

I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that,

.

LOL.

Btw, edge is just one of the variables that makes a player lose. Would you play had the edge been negative 0.1%?

A player with a finite balance vs a house with infinite balance guarantees that the player lose. In real life cases, there is no "infinite balance", so they have this "max bet", though not that effective, makes player winning over the house difficult.
In other words, player stops playing till his balance is wiped out. Grin

I'd gamble the same amount I do now. I do it for fun. I go in with the mindset that I've already lost 100% of it. If I come out ahead, great. If not, I wasn't expecting to.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:59:06 AM

I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that,

.

LOL.

Btw, edge is just one of the variables that makes a player lose. Would you play had the edge been negative 0.1%?

A player with a finite balance vs a house with infinite balance guarantees that the player lose. In real life cases, there is no "infinite balance", so they have this "max bet", though not that effective, makes player winning over the house difficult.
In other words, player stops playing till his balance is wiped out. Grin

NLNico

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1295

DiceSites.com owner

TBH I think MP should just have a max HE of 5 - 10%. I mean it could be an advantage to have a higher HE, so the site can offer a higher max profit (for example a dynamic max profit like SafeDice.) But 50% is just crazy, even national lotteries are not that high. I don't see any reason to facilitate such high HE. Also, I think it would be good if there is a policy that the app should show HE when it's above let's say 2%.

Saying it's like a ponzi who is honest about being a ponzi, is correct. Question is if MP wants to help that kind of sketchy apps.

ranlo

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Quickseller on September 01, 2015, 01:06:56 AM

Quote from: ndnh on September 01, 2015, 12:52:51 AM

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again.

Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

He's basically pushing this victimization thing that everyone's been on lately. Nothing is ever your fault. You bet on a site that made it clear you're disadvantaged? It's their fault and not yours. You ran out in front of a car in the middle of the night? Driver's fault. You shot yourself in the foot with a pistol? Gun maker's fault. Nothing is ever your fault -- always blame it on someone else.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: Quickseller on September 01, 2015, 01:06:56 AM

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

The app has complete control over your balance as long as they are in the app. There is a chance that you may not. Grin

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: ndnh on September 01, 2015, 12:52:51 AM

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again.

Why would I do this? I can clearly see that their house edge is not competitive and that the chances of me winning over the short term due to variance is close to zero.

I would know however that I would receive any winnings that I *might* win because of money pot's proof of assets and proof of liabilities. Wink

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:59:06 AM

I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that,

.

Well, no one with reasonable sanity will be willing to play a 50% edge dice game, esp. considering that there EW <1% edge offering dice sites within reach.
This is indeed unusual, and the app is clearly hoping for someone to fall into the trap.

Encouraging this behavior will get some 100% edge apps soon.

Quote from: RHavar on August 31, 2015, 06:39:18 PM

Quote from: ranlo on August 31, 2015, 06:25:27 PM

Are they misleading, though? That's a big question. If they're upfront, I see it being no different than a HYIP -- people can do as they wish. If they are claiming to have better odds, though, that's a problem.

If anyone wants to offer a 50% house edge, and users want to play a game where they're basically handing the casino money, I don't have a problem with it. But considering how highly unusual this is, I think they should take steps to make this extremely clear and explicit.

Showing the winning chance is good, but many people aren't fully aware of how this translates to house edge

Quote from: RHavar on August 31, 2015, 06:22:11 PM

Quote from: Revelation Machine on August 31, 2015, 06:02:10 PM

There is a new app on moneypot, 'Masterdice' that has horrific odds and is basically trying to scam people.

I posted the following in their thread and it got INSTANTLY deleted, as it's a self-moderated thread:

Anyone betting on this site is a massive mark as the "expected profit" is 50%.

FIFTY PERCENT!!!

Seriously, just look at what you risk/win. If you bet @ 2x odds (1 to win 1), the chance is 24.5%. This site has probably the worst odds anywhere on the internet. STAY AWAY! (and pay attention before you bet)

Thanks for letting me know. I've posted on the thread, and temporary disabled API access for their app until they take some steps to be less misleading.

I personally respect this decision. ^.

It is indeed the responsibility of the player. Doesn't mean Moneypot shouldn't stop a possible exploitation of stupid players. Grin

ranlo

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Activity: 1988

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Quote from: ndnh on September 01, 2015, 12:52:51 AM

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:25:33 AM

Quote from: ndnh on August 31, 2015, 11:42:52 PM

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

And MasterDice "deserves" to profit from them? Tongue

Quote from: Quickseller on September 01, 2015, 12:46:50 AM

I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

And you were concerned about DD?

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again.

I rarely gamble at all, even if there's a house edge of 0.001%. My strong background in mathematics is more than enough to make me realize that every bet I make is another risk I take. If someone wants to take a high-risk, low-reward gamble, that's on them. Anyone who has ever bought an altcoin has done that,

.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:25:33 AM

Quote from: ndnh on August 31, 2015, 11:42:52 PM

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

And MasterDice "deserves" to profit from them? Tongue

Quote from: Quickseller on September 01, 2015, 12:46:50 AM

I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

And you were concerned about DD?

I suggest both of you take a break, bet some 10BTC each in Masterdice before you talk about this again.

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: ranlo on September 01, 2015, 12:25:33 AM

Quote from: ndnh on August 31, 2015, 11:42:52 PM

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

I strongly agree, especially countering the concern about those who do not read.

It is the responsibility of the person gambling to understand the circumstances in which they will win and in which they will lose. If they do not then why would they even be making a specific bet in the first place?

ranlo

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1007

Quote from: ndnh on August 31, 2015, 11:42:52 PM

What about the rest? What about someone who doesn't read it? Those who have trouble with numbers?

Seriously? These people shouldn't be gambling, first of all, so they're irrelevant. If someone blindly throws their money at something, they deserve to lose it all. It's really that simple.

Topic: MoneyPot.com :: The bitcoin gambling wallet - page 34. (Read 77137 times)