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Topic: Monthly average USD/bitcoin price & trend - page 14. (Read 118242 times)

full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 15, 2013, 05:08:51 PM
The price and volume are clearly trending downwards since the Dec 11 peak after bounce off the crash low.

"clearly"? I wouldn't say that at all, the volume is quite constant, on most exchanges, and viewed on different timescales as well.
that's an obvious pennant. It should last until christmas, more ore less.

The chart of the number of the wallets on blockchain is getting sigmoid.

http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school:chart_analysis:chart_patterns:flag_pennant_continu
sr. member
Activity: 353
Merit: 251
December 15, 2013, 04:59:39 PM
The price and volume are clearly trending downwards since the Dec 11 peak after bounce off the crash low.

"clearly"? I wouldn't say that at all, the volume is quite constant, on most exchanges, and viewed on different timescales as well.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 15, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
The price and volume are clearly trending downwards since the Dec 11 peak after bounce off the crash low.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 14, 2013, 12:49:45 PM
one buys the bad news if the price is low, that's not the case. Btc decupled  ;)in one month...

How did you determine the price is too high at any given point in time in for example the south seas bubble?

The only question to ask is if the slope was always constant in manias. I don't know. I can't find any detailed price data on past manias.

This is not an investment folks. It is a mania. It is entirely driven by demographics and emotions.

We don't have any earnings to calculate. There is no possibility of doing NAV discounting based on future revenue.

indeed:on one side we have to calculate the emotions of people gaining big watching their gains desappear, on the otherside we have to calculate wall street guys stepping in and badly needing an accumualtion phase. No way it can go striaght up from here. I see 2 scenarios:
extension to 1600/800 and crash, direct crash to 460.

How do we know they haven't been accumulating on this correction already and that you shorts aren't handing them some of your wealth?
i'm not shorting! we know because not enough time passed. they need at least 300 millions worth of btc in order to manipulate the market.
Since they CAN crash the market they'll do, given the assumption there are new big players coming. Best way to do it is a pump and dump to 1800 with ALL newbies selling and a lot of veterans too. Or maybe they got already bullets. In no way the big players will leave this market unconditioned. I'm a trader from 1998 and i say: NO WAY. Maybe I'm wrong, of course.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 14, 2013, 11:57:48 AM
one buys the bad news if the price is low, that's not the case. Btc decupled  ;)in one month...

How did you determine the price is too high at any given point in time in for example the south seas bubble?

The only question to ask is if the slope was always constant in manias. I don't know. I can't find any detailed price data on past manias.

This is not an investment folks. It is a mania. It is entirely driven by demographics and emotions.

We don't have any earnings to calculate. There is no possibility of doing NAV discounting based on future revenue.

indeed:on one side we have to calculate the emotions of people gaining big watching their gains desappear, on the otherside we have to calculate wall street guys stepping in and badly needing an accumualtion phase. No way it can go striaght up from here. I see 2 scenarios:
extension to 1600/800 and crash, direct crash to 460.

How do we know they haven't been accumulating on this correction already and that you shorts aren't handing them some of your wealth?
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 14, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
one buys the bad news if the price is low, that's not the case. Btc decupled  ;)in one month...

How did you determine the price is too high at any given point in time in for example the south seas bubble?

The only question to ask is if the slope was always constant in manias. I don't know. I can't find any detailed price data on past manias.

This is not an investment folks. It is a mania. It is entirely driven by demographics and emotions.

We don't have any earnings to calculate. There is no possibility of doing NAV discounting based on future revenue.

indeed:on one side we have to calculate the emotions of people gaining big watching their gains desappear, on the otherside we have to calculate wall street guys stepping in and badly needing an accumualtion phase. No way it can go striaght up from here. I see 2 scenarios:
extension to 1600/800 and crash, direct crash to 460.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 13, 2013, 10:39:31 PM
one buys the bad news if the price is low, that's not the case. Btc decupled  ;)in one month...

How did you determine the price is too high at any given point in time in for example the south seas bubble?

The only question to ask is if the slope was always constant in manias. I don't know. I can't find any detailed price data on past manias.

This is not an investment folks. It is a mania. It is entirely driven by demographics and emotions.

We don't have any earnings to calculate. There is no possibility of doing NAV discounting based on future revenue.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2013, 10:36:01 PM
one buys the bad news if the price is low, that's not the case. Btc decupled  ;)in one month...

Technical analysis identifies levels, which level the price is going to is a matter of probabilities, but not exactly 50-50. I'm more intersted in levels than in actual direction  of TA.

there  is a very, very accurate chart from wall street crypto in which you can see th 576 level, before the price touched it.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--QG-BMvrLqA/Up0wMQflIBI/AAAAAAAAABw/ArK8nAYNOdw/s1600/Fib+December.png

iff there is a dump, i'll buy @460 not before, and after that in the 200/300 area
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 13, 2013, 10:44:00 AM
from the google trends chart posted above we can have an estimate of the media coverage trend. It seems to confirm a 3X coverage frome peak to peak, according  with a constant slope model.

Not only: the technical target of the double top is exactly 440, and we have an interesting level at 460. These signals all confirm rpietila's view.

We are experiencing  a very bad press, i think smart money is loading to short.

P.S. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decuple in italian "decuplicare" is very common, it seems i english is not the same. regards.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 13, 2013, 12:23:28 AM
I do appreciate the excellent rpitelia's work and his insightful take on risk management of his position.
But as AnthonyMint points a constant slope is very unlikely.

There are different phases that have to depend on media coverage. We just got a major rally in prices which is attracting a whole new target of speculators, including myself.

So, considering that, the optimal smart's money scenario is a strong pump and dump that inflates a bubble from these levels (from 800 to 1800) and a symmetric crash after. Than we can reenter the old trendline after neutralizing this new dumb money possible play.



the slope is not constant, but the AVERAGE is.

or at least it has been since the last 4 years, and it's likely to continue so for the next couple of months/years.

I want to clarify that I did not say a constant slope is very unlikely. I don't know if it is likely or not. Can anyone suggest a past case that is similar to Bitcoin with good pricing data we can analyze?

I do want to take issue with the notion that the average has been constant the last 4 years. You can put a line there and say it is, but that is arbitrary. I can look at the same chart and see two different slopes.

We don't know yet which interpretation is the correct one.

how can it be the same average slope given:
1 much more media coverage?
2 different scale of possible speculators coming in?
if, in a logistic framework, we assume that average slope is given by the doubling of market participants every 3 months or so. How can they not TRIPLE given this different environment?
we just experienced a sudden, enormous, enlargement of the participants base.  We'd better check the media coverage on a logaritmic scale to understand if the environment really changed.

The fact that the price is increasing by a factor of 10 every year or so, means #1 and #2 should be happening. So we would need to actually quantify that the increases are moving faster than the recent slope of the period of the 10X (is there a word for 10X period, as we have "doubling" period for 2X?).

Since I can't quantify that, I have instead used the demographics to argue my side. I argue that the early stage and late stage will non-professional investors which pile in without raking and other measures to prevent a bubble. Whereas the middle stage was likely institutional and professional investors coming in, who are very experienced at trying to sell and buy at a lower price.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 12, 2013, 02:35:55 PM
I do appreciate the excellent rpitelia's work and his insightful take on risk management of his position.
But as AnthonyMint points a constant slope is very unlikely.

There are different phases that have to depend on media coverage. We just got a major rally in prices which is attracting a whole new target of speculators, including myself.

So, considering that, the optimal smart's money scenario is a strong pump and dump that inflates a bubble from these levels (from 800 to 1800) and a symmetric crash after. Than we can reenter the old trendline after neutralizing this new dumb money possible play.




the slope is not constant, but the AVERAGE is.

or at least it has been since the last 4 years, and it's likely to continue so for the next couple of months/years.

how can it be the same average slope given:
1 much more media coverage?
2 different scale of possible speculators coming in?
if, in a logistic framework, we assume that average slope is given by the doubling of market participants every 3 months or so. How can they not TRIPLE given this different environment?
we just experienced a sudden, enormous, enlargement of the participants base.  We'd better check the media coverage on a logaritmic scale to understand if the environment really changed.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
December 12, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
I do appreciate the excellent rpitelia's work and his insightful take on risk management of his position.
But as AnthonyMint points a constant slope is very unlikely.

There are different phases that have to depend on media coverage. We just got a major rally in prices which is attracting a whole new target of speculators, including myself.

So, considering that, the optimal smart's money scenario is a strong pump and dump that inflates a bubble from these levels (from 800 to 1800) and a symmetric crash after. Than we can reenter the old trendline after neutralizing this new dumb money possible play.




the slope is not constant, but the AVERAGE is.

or at least it has been since the last 4 years, and it's likely to continue so for the next couple of months/years.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
December 12, 2013, 02:11:09 PM
I do appreciate the excellent rpitelia's work and his insightful take on risk management of his position.
But as AnthonyMint points a constant slope is very unlikely.

There are different phases that have to depend on media coverage. We just got a major rally in prices which is attracting a whole new target of speculators, including myself.

So, considering that, the optimal smart's money scenario is a strong pump and dump that inflates a bubble from these levels (from 800 to 1800) and a symmetric crash after. Than we can reenter the old trendline after neutralizing this new dumb money possible play.


hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 12, 2013, 01:57:56 PM
Another factor is that LTC ASICs are likely to hit next year. LTC skyrocketing will probably boost BTC instead of the usual relationship. Because good press for any crypto helps all cryptos.

As far as I know LTC uses Scrypt, which prevents ASICs from working. Is there something I'm missing?

Colin Percival, the author of Scrypt says:

Quote
14:36 < cperciva> If your goal is to have something which works well on GPUs but is hard to put
14:36 < cperciva> onto an ASIC, your current "small scrypt" approach is probably about right.
14:36 < cperciva> You won't block ASICs completely of course, but you've reduced their advantage
14:36 < cperciva> by ~ a factor of 10, which may be enough to keep them away for now at least.

Given the 1000+ advantage that ASICs have over CPUs on Bitcoin, 10x is not enough to stop them. Since the market cap of Litecoin has increased significantly on this latest price rise, there might be enough incentive now.
mu
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
December 12, 2013, 01:55:42 PM
Another factor is that LTC ASICs are likely to hit next year. LTC skyrocketing will probably boost BTC instead of the usual relationship. Because good press for any crypto helps all cryptos.

As far as I know LTC uses Scrypt, which prevents ASICs from working. Is there something I'm missing?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 12, 2013, 01:44:26 PM
full member
Activity: 237
Merit: 101
December 12, 2013, 10:16:53 AM
Of course every day that we trade sideways is another day for the slope to come back up and meet us.
Muddling through for a few weeks would be a very good thing.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
December 12, 2013, 10:06:27 AM
Another factor is that LTC ASICs are likely to hit next year. LTC skyrocketing will probably boost BTC instead of the usual relationship. Because good press for any crypto helps all cryptos.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
December 12, 2013, 08:01:50 AM
If you look at the chart I annotated with lime green lines, you see the just as the price moved back above the $30 peak of that prior bubble that is when the slope of the ascent was the same higher rate as before in the runup to $30. Then it hit trendline and corrected. That could possibly be interpreted to mean that was a breakout and retest. Thus it looks like since June 2013 we are back to the higher slope rate. Thus the entire part hugging the red trendline appears to be the consolidation dip. Of course it might not be. I said consider a possibility. I don't know how likely.
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