Most Traders are Not Profitable - page 16.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable. How do I know this through simple deduction. 95% of these unprofitable traders make their money through other means and their unsuspecting followers don't know this. Some of the means are
- starting a YouTube channel and making money of
a) affiliate program
b) YouTube ads

You are making assumptions with your information but agreed that many people that claim to be traders are not traders in real sense. They are doing videos and posting on YouTube channels for likes and ads to survive. I mean, will real trader has that time to be making noise on videos with some random trend linee? The real traders are on their screen depicting how to know whether the market will go north or south, this doesn't invalidate real traders that are out there making it from the market.

The affiliate program is the most popular you see around their channel and the ones that will always ask for coffee money as if they hardly have difficult time in having breakfast.

Quote

- Having a paid course.
- Trading signals
- Selling trading merch
- impressions
- and others.

The true 5% of traders that are very successful and profitable do not even have a YouTube channel (only a very few exceptions). They are strictly for trading only, day in and say out.

You didn't mention of the pay signal and private groups where they drop trades. They are always quick to show their profit but wouldn't show you the profit from the exchange market. Hardly will you even see a person from the so called signal group of sharing testimony about the profit they have made from trading, most of the time paid signals are nothing but home of scammers.

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that's true, not everyone because most of those who enter the trade immediately have a little idea that's the feeling that they already know their strategy the others who were taught in cryto are wrong, their strategy is wrong others, when they lose, they want to take it back immediately; others, when they win in trade, they want to trade immediately again, and they lose their ability to trade. If I'm one of you, focus on a strategy, not when you learn something new and do it immediately in the trade

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Quote from: irhact on November 29, 2023, 05:51:12 PM

Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable. How do I know this through simple deduction. 95% of these unprofitable traders make their money through other means and their unsuspecting followers don't know this.

Social media traders aren't real traders, real traders don't have time to be online showing their results to random individuals and proving to them that they're successful traders. Trading isn't an easy activity that everybody can do due to the reason that not everyone is willing to undergo the process of learning how to trade as not everyone has the patience to learn. Everyone is now too interested in making profits that they won't want to learn how to trade first.

We have more newbies in trading than professionals so we'll always have more individuals losing than making profits. Many newbies trading cryptocurency are trading with emotions therefore they'll always make mistakes due to following their emotions instead of following the charts. To make profits when trading, we have to learn to separate our emotions when making decisions so we can be focused and only take trades based on what the charts is saying.

beginners trade at first by feeling proud that they are a trader, especially when they are given a profit at the start of trading, so they can feel that trading is easy, until finally they feel the real cruelty of trading, and for those who don't have a steely mentality then they disconnected from the world of trading, so that many people came in and out of the world of trading. For those who continue trading, they will invest more than the capital used for trading, while learning to trade

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

Without having to dispute on claims you’ve made in the OP,
I would say, as much as some of these guys actually make money through the ads view on the content they create and other programs they host through there channel(s), some of them are getting some true success.

A quick note:
The term we mainly refer to as professional traders have come with a different definition as against what it’s assumed to be which is; traders that have a good level of expertise on there trades or happens to be pretty successful.
Professional traders are individuals who trade on behalf on an institution (institutional traders) and are being paid for their services.

Something to note, we have more day to traders newbie and petty traders than we could have of any self proclaimed expert traders and as such, they’ve got to be more losses than profit to some individuals, that in itself is a fact.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable. How do I know this through simple deduction. 95% of these unprofitable traders make their money through other means and their unsuspecting followers don't know this.

Social media traders aren't real traders, real traders don't have time to be online showing their results to random individuals and proving to them that they're successful traders. Trading isn't an easy activity that everybody can do due to the reason that not everyone is willing to undergo the process of learning how to trade as not everyone has the patience to learn. Everyone is now too interested in making profits that they won't want to learn how to trade first.

We have more newbies in trading than professionals so we'll always have more individuals losing than making profits. Many newbies trading cryptocurency are trading with emotions therefore they'll always make mistakes due to following their emotions instead of following the charts. To make profits when trading, we have to learn to separate our emotions when making decisions so we can be focused and only take trades based on what the charts is saying.

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I do believe that most traders are not really profitable, because if they really are, they will not be making noise in the social media trying to convince people that trading can make them rich and profitable as long as they make their subscription immediately. This can be a form of scamming or manipulation most especially to those who easily fall on their traps. While there are traders who are actually in profits, but they do it secretly without announcing to the world that they are good and profitable traders.

Maybe because the social media is the home of the scammers, this could be the reason why a lot want to gain self-entitlement and claim theirselves as profitable traders. At least, if they are not making five or six digits in trading, it can always be possible in the social media as long as they gain a lot of viewers and subscriptions on their videos and channels.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable. How do I know this through simple deduction. 95% of these unprofitable traders make their money through other means and their unsuspecting followers don't know this. Some of the means are
- starting a YouTube channel and making money of
a) affiliate program
b) YouTube ads

- Having a paid course.
- Trading signals
- Selling trading merch
- impressions
- and others.

The true 5% of traders that are very successful and profitable do not even have a YouTube channel (only a very few exceptions). They are strictly for trading only, day in and say out.

Most traders are self-educated and have very large gaps in their knowledge and/or they have no experience with planning and utilizing a trading strategy. Most prefer to trade on their own, ever-changing whims. And such a "strategy" will always go awry.

The Influencer fake-day-traders with their leased luxury cars may have impressed me when I was a newbie but I will never fall for something like that now. They are not traders, they are actors with a cult following that they abuse to make money. Some even go as far as scamming their viewers out of their money.

But as I said, thats not real trading. Real trading has its own set of logical rules. And if you understand those rules, you might be able to make a small profit.

ajiz138

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If they completely rely on trading then it will not be profitable all the time, let alone doing daily trading, it is clear that they will experience big losses because basically, based on the existing statistics, it is true that overall trading is a loss, in contrast to investments which always make a profit if they don't sell it.

What do I see in a trader now? They have a paid signal channel, they have YouTube and rely on ads there, they continue to promote so that they are better known and many people follow and join the group and at that time traders can earn additional income because there are other sources apart from trading, so If traders do not have the things mentioned above, it is clear that they will have difficulty dealing with finances, let alone relying on trading.

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The truth is, you can actually trade and make it profitable without announcing it in your youtube account. That is, if you really are earning well through trading, and you won't have to do extra activities like affiliating or doing youtube videos, that will gain extra income if the people will also subscribe on your channel. Trading with bitcoin is a private activity, so you don't have expose yourself that you're a trader, otherwise people will think that the reason why you are documenting all your trades is to gain followers and make an income, because you are not really profitable with trading itself.

In short, if you are gaining decent amount with trading, then you should focus on it and maximize trading for profits, not that you will scam people with your trading skills and strategies and claim yourself that you're a successful trader when in reality you're not even a pro in trading.

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Quote from: 2girls on November 29, 2023, 03:42:49 PM

Quote from: Bushdark on November 29, 2023, 02:10:59 PM

Quote from: shawonngp on November 29, 2023, 10:12:41 AM

Most of traders in loses but i think this percentage are not 95%, i am also short term traders and i agree that now i lost big amount in last two months.
Short term traders have to take big risk, if it will work profit is also big. If most of traders are lost their money so they are trying earn money from other sources.

Majority of traders in the market are trading without the confidence of making profits in the market. This is nit mostly because their strategies are bad and not good enough but can be as a result of the market change of patterns and structure.
We need to understand market structure a lot for us to make profits from the market. This is one of the reasons why what works for us before might not work again. The market keep changing patterns and strong and we should not allow that to affect us as a trader.

Those who trade without the trading knowledge and experience. They may be gaining experience a little but they are also wasting their money and time on it.

Better for them to trade in a way that can only only give them benefit but also some knowledge about trading. Mostly those users which have some confidence that they can easily get profit somehow they fail to manage just due to their over confidence which puts them in hard situations. Better to learn sometimes and take advice from other to realize the mistakes.

Overconfidence would really be leading you into disaster on which it would really be that just right that you should be thinking up realistically. Dont try out to mimic those successful traders on which you could see online as if these things would really be making you that desperate on trying to reach out a certain state on which it is something that cant be attained in a short time.

Better to have realistic approach rather than on making yourself that looks delusional.Yes, its not bad to have those kind of goals and intents of success but just like been said that if you dont make yourself
that realistic and really in a rush then you are really sthat susceptible to lots of errors and mistakes on which this is something that we must avoid in the first place. The market is really that composed
with buyers and sellers and this is really that just a tug-of-war on which it is really that so common that there would be losers and there would be those winners or profitable ones.

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Quote from: JeromeTash on November 28, 2023, 05:46:06 PM

If I am so good a trading and making a lot of money out of it. I don't see why I would go to YouTube looking for views and people to register using my referral links Grin

Whenever I see YouTubers asking subscribers to use their referral links, that is where I stop the video

I agree with OP a bit ,the real profitable traders I have come across or seen in my area hardly share their trading secret or strategy, those ones that come to YouTube are using those affiliates they get to backing up their losses, even I have seen some that claim to be trader on YouTube that do not trade but have a paid group they join and even sell those signals they got to their newbies client as if they are tthe source of the signal.

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Quote from: Bushdark on November 29, 2023, 02:10:59 PM

Quote from: shawonngp on November 29, 2023, 10:12:41 AM

Most of traders in loses but i think this percentage are not 95%, i am also short term traders and i agree that now i lost big amount in last two months.
Short term traders have to take big risk, if it will work profit is also big. If most of traders are lost their money so they are trying earn money from other sources.

Majority of traders in the market are trading without the confidence of making profits in the market. This is nit mostly because their strategies are bad and not good enough but can be as a result of the market change of patterns and structure.
We need to understand market structure a lot for us to make profits from the market. This is one of the reasons why what works for us before might not work again. The market keep changing patterns and strong and we should not allow that to affect us as a trader.

Those who trade without the trading knowledge and experience. They may be gaining experience a little but they are also wasting their money and time on it.

Better for them to trade in a way that can only only give them benefit but also some knowledge about trading. Mostly those users which have some confidence that they can easily get profit somehow they fail to manage just due to their over confidence which puts them in hard situations. Better to learn sometimes and take advice from other to realize the mistakes.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable. How do I know this through simple deduction. 95% of these unprofitable traders make their money through other means and their unsuspecting followers don't know this. Some of the means are
- starting a YouTube channel and making money of
a) affiliate program
b) YouTube ads

- Having a paid course.
- Trading signals
- Selling trading merch
- impressions
- and others.

The true 5% of traders that are very successful and profitable do not even have a YouTube channel (only a very few exceptions). They are strictly for trading only, day in and say out.

Well, i couldn't deny that you do really have a solid point when it comes to this on which if these people were really that making money in the first place then they wont bother themselves on launching up some signals
group or something that they could make money like streaming or whatsoever that you have mentioned above because if they were truly making money then they wont really be bothering themselves on creating one
since they could make out money so easily. This is why its never been that believable that they are profitable with their trades, if ever they do have that good positive portfolio then it might be but
it is hard to believe that they are really that making money well in trading world.

Even myself would definitely focus instead on making trades rather than on making myself getting involved with these things on which we know that it isnt really
that worth on doing so but instead i would be focusing on something that could make out big money.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

The true 5% of traders that are very successful and profitable do not even have a YouTube channel (only a very few exceptions). They are strictly for trading only, day in and say out.

Why do we always say 95% in everything as this is not the right data if this is right then give complete proof of it or if you are giving just a rough estimate then why do you use 95% you can use 80 or 70 percent. I do not agree with you, don't be sad or aggressive with my words because everyone has the right to speak and write. The reason is we are doing trading just to make profits and every person wants to be richer and richer and for that, you need to increase your work so that instead of let's say 1k$ coming per month increase to 5k$ per month. So some of the traders make videos on YouTube just to teach others, gain fame and also capital but with all this, they did not close their trading business but increased time to time.

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Quote from: Bushdark on November 29, 2023, 02:10:59 PM

Quote from: shawonngp on November 29, 2023, 10:12:41 AM

Most of traders in loses but i think this percentage are not 95%, i am also short term traders and i agree that now i lost big amount in last two months.
Short term traders have to take big risk, if it will work profit is also big. If most of traders are lost their money so they are trying earn money from other sources.

Majority of traders in the market are trading without the confidence of making profits in the market. This is nit mostly because their strategies are bad and not good enough but can be as a result of the market change of patterns and structure.
We need to understand market structure a lot for us to make profits from the market. This is one of the reasons why what works for us before might not work again. The market keep changing patterns and strong and we should not allow that to affect us as a trader.

Although some traders didn't concentrate on their strategies and they didn't even know their loss way. Because when someone made a mistake he should know where the mistake came from and what mistake did he perform, so he should take some advice next time to not doing this type of a mistake. Same in the case in trading mostly users made mistakes by just using their strategy 100 times which they didn't change and they don't even know it.

Mostly they blame the market conditions, that market was not good etc. that's why we are in loss. I know market also play important role in their trading but a strategy is something that should be considered the most. So, they can easily get a good decisions and good profit from their trading.

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That often cited statistic belongs to traditional finance in an era where most brokers charged prohibitively high commissions, so in such an environment day trading was a fool's game where one ended up making the brokers and exchanges rich...

With extremely low fees and many incentive schemes now, scales are much more balanced towards high frequency trading; regardless there can still be many days where doing 0 trades will be the most rational course of action.

I agree high frequency trading is a very specialized branch of trading and requires a completely focused set of skills, and for most products it's almost always dominated by automated algorithms...

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Quote from: shawonngp on November 29, 2023, 10:12:41 AM

Most of traders in loses but i think this percentage are not 95%, i am also short term traders and i agree that now i lost big amount in last two months.
Short term traders have to take big risk, if it will work profit is also big. If most of traders are lost their money so they are trying earn money from other sources.

Majority of traders in the market are trading without the confidence of making profits in the market. This is nit mostly because their strategies are bad and not good enough but can be as a result of the market change of patterns and structure.
We need to understand market structure a lot for us to make profits from the market. This is one of the reasons why what works for us before might not work again. The market keep changing patterns and strong and we should not allow that to affect us as a trader.

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Quote from: Issa56 on November 29, 2023, 08:07:54 AM

Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on November 28, 2023, 05:02:07 PM

A lot of traders are not as profitable as they claim to be. I don't know the exact percentage but I can say and stand to be corrected that 95% of traders even the so called professionals are not profitable.

Its obvious that not everyone that call themselves professional traders are really making money. most of the people that call themselves professional traders are fake, whenever i see videos on YouTube and those people are calling themselves professional traders i just shake my head and laugh, i know most of them are posting those videos because of views and subscribers. That's why you will notice that most videos on YouTube will only show when they are in profits but will never post when they are at loss. Don't be deceived by the videos you see on YouTube, most of them are after their money.

Whenever I see someone claiming to be a professional trader and those people are still offering paid trading signals, I do believe they are not really a professional trader. If you are a real trader and you are making cool money in trading, you won't be wasting your time forcing people to join your group for signals. I have seen real professional traders organize seminars just to teach how to trade for free, they don't collect any amount from members that are interested, those are the real people I know they are making money from trading, and they want to impact others.

They are really not professional traders, the yare just signal sellers, that's their professional business. They do not make much money from trading, which means you will not make profit from following them, the real amount they make and their income is the signal payers, people who pay for signals make for their living. I have seen people who had over ten thousand followers, nearly all of them paid, and that means they made hundreds of thousands of dollars, and all he did was arrange a bot to post a message on a telegram group when something happens with an indicator, that's it.

This is why it's quite obvious that we are talking about people who have absolutely no idea, and they are not professional traders. If this dude was a professional trader, he could have taken that money and doubled it, and if not then they are going to end up being terrible for long time. I get that we may not see the situation changing a bit, but I think it should be a lot more important.

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OP, Your concern is really legitimate, I do consider that a maximum of the professionals make money through other means and a maximum of the means are aforementioned by the OP. Trading is not that easy if a person is making money at the start of their trading journey means he has something big to face later on, if a person faces difficulties at the start of his journey and is still stuck with the market somehow surviving for sure he'll be a good trader.

Trading is not like a straight way, it's really a very stressful skill if you are highly reliant on it. If a person has already serviced a cycle or more with his trading career without any doubt, you can consider him as your legit mentor, these YouTube analysts and traders most of the time trade with borrowed money and course content on the name of signals, courses, and paid sponsorships. So cant say they are having a top-notch trading skills.

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95% of all traders fail is the most commonly used statistic as a percentage of traders who experience losses.
Even this percentage can be more, there are only a few traders who are able to survive with profits and most day traders get losses.
80% of day traders will only survive in the first 2 years and almost 40% of day traders will survive for one month and the others will only be left with the dream of getting rich quick by day trading.

If day trading cannot always be expected, and they use other methods to earn income such as YouTube ads and affiliates,
it is another method that will camouflage a trade to look successful, but in reality there is another business behind it.

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