Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 278.

Cnut237

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

Yes, you're right. I think it was widely expected that Ferrari would be faster here, and I did expect them to extend their advantage from the previous race, and maybe even get a 1-2 here with Max back in 3rd. It's a bit of a surprise, but it does keep things interesting. If it really is the case that the RB and Ferrari are evenly matched, and whoever is fastest will vary from circuit to circuit, then I think we're in for a good season.

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Quote from: Davian144 on April 26, 2022, 01:45:34 AM

Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 02:56:15 AM

Very surprising result in the MotoGP race, nobody expected a victory from Fabio (superior and unthreatened) and certainly not me. Very sad for Mir, he had a very good race, the Suzuki works well, unfortunately Miller was a bit over-motivated and Mir was unlucky that Miller also caught him. Honda was a bit weak and Marc had a very unstable bike.

Last year Suzuki was also stable here, especially Joan Mir even though he had never won there either, but overall it is very clear that Suzuki is stable there so Joan Mir always has the potential to get a very good position.
But what was very surprising in the race in Portugal was Alex Rins who started the race from Grid 23 and was able to finish in 4th place.

And for Fabio Quartararo, I was not surprised and I was also convinced that he would win again in Portugal because at the beginning of last season he also won the race in the Algarve Portugal.

Exactly, you forget Alex Rins, he rode a very strong race, but also Bagnaia is not to be forgotten, he ride from the last position on the grid to position 8 after the crash in qualifying, also a very strong performance.

It seems that Portimao could be Fabio's favourite track, the Yamaha, like Honda in general, was not really strong here except for Fabio, the other Yamaha riders are far behind.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 09:37:33 AM

RedBull had the best package in Imola, but RedBull also benefited from Ferrari's own mistakes, you have to be fair. In addition, Ferrari did not bring any updates because of the sprint race and the resulting lack of time. They will probably come in Miami, where there is a completely new track and the forces can change again.

But in any case, in contrast to the last seasons, this season 2 cars are on a par, even though I think Ferrari still has a bit more room for improvement, but Red Bull has managed to make it very difficult to overtake them on the straights, which is definitely a small advantage.

The idea that one team did better because the other didn't is literally the whole deal of racing. I mean we sure do have races where everyone's car goes great and only like back racers that gets a crash, but that is not really the common thing. We always have problems with cars and that results with people losing positions and points.

Max was the lucky one this time, Charles was the lucky one last time, it just happens to be like that. Good that Red Bull actually had a 1-2 though, I mean yes Ferrari wasn't there but at the same time Red Bull could have screwed up as well and they didn't do that, they have been doing fine and took advantage of that situation.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on April 25, 2022, 02:56:15 AM

Very surprising result in the MotoGP race, nobody expected a victory from Fabio (superior and unthreatened) and certainly not me. Very sad for Mir, he had a very good race, the Suzuki works well, unfortunately Miller was a bit over-motivated and Mir was unlucky that Miller also caught him. Honda was a bit weak and Marc had a very unstable bike.

Last year Suzuki was also stable here, especially Joan Mir even though he had never won there either, but overall it is very clear that Suzuki is stable there so Joan Mir always has the potential to get a very good position.
But what was very surprising in the race in Portugal was Alex Rins who started the race from Grid 23 and was able to finish in 4th place.

And for Fabio Quartararo, I was not surprised and I was also convinced that he would win again in Portugal because at the beginning of last season he also won the race in the Algarve Portugal.

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 11:57:04 AM

Quote from: Cnut237 on April 25, 2022, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

Yeah it did look like Ferrari was gonna start dominating the season tho even if the difference between them and Red Bull wasn't really huge. It also looked like Red Bull was gonna play catch up all season. I guess I spoke too soon on that one.

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

The Ferraris were fast but not fast enough as the Redbulls,however I think it was the pressure on the Ferrari drivers that made them start in the worst possible way the race with Leclerc losing many positions and Sainz rushed more than he should have so it was out of the track right after the first corner.If Ferrari drivers were calm and if Leclerc would be on top of Verstappen during the start I think it would have been difficult for Redbull to overtake him on track as the difference between the cars is small right now.

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Quote from: AakZaki on April 25, 2022, 11:41:42 AM

Quote from: bestcoins1 on April 24, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

~snip~
I see that Yamaha will be getting stronger at several other European circuits this season, especially for Fabio Quartararo. And what's unique is that after the Race in the Algarve Portugal today, there is no Honda in the top 10 temporary standings.

The European session will be yamaha's mainstay, especially Fabio Quartararo to find points. So I think they'll make the most of not making mistakes in the next Session. What I see is that the character of the European circuit does not have many straights that prioritize the strength of the bike.
As for Honda, I think without Marquez they wouldn't be able to hope much. Their replacement drivers did not perform well either. It seems that the one who can master the current Honda mootor is only Marquez.

Quartararo is still the best

, when I look at the table he is on top with 69 points same as Rinz, and 3 points left from Espargaro.

Quartararo it's getting hot after got 1st podium in Portugal, I believe he will continue it in Spain next week. but, when we saw him in 2021, he was bad got 13th in Spain, he must be careful because Ducati is very dominated when racing in Circuito de Jerez. So we don't expect too much when Quartararo finishes under 5 lines.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on April 25, 2022, 09:33:47 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

Yeah it did look like Ferrari was gonna start dominating the season tho even if the difference between them and Red Bull wasn't really huge. It also looked like Red Bull was gonna play catch up all season. I guess I spoke too soon on that one.

And what's weird is Imola isn't really a technical track. I could be wrong but it was expected that the Ferraris would be fast on that track.

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Quote from: bestcoins1 on April 24, 2022, 05:58:07 PM

~snip~
I see that Yamaha will be getting stronger at several other European circuits this season, especially for Fabio Quartararo. And what's unique is that after the Race in the Algarve Portugal today, there is no Honda in the top 10 temporary standings.

The European session will be yamaha's mainstay, especially Fabio Quartararo to find points. So I think they'll make the most of not making mistakes in the next Session. What I see is that the character of the European circuit does not have many straights that prioritize the strength of the bike.
As for Honda, I think without Marquez they wouldn't be able to hope much. Their replacement drivers did not perform well either. It seems that the one who can master the current Honda mootor is only Marquez.

Koal-84

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull did but it's not just the mistakes from Ferrari. Have you noticed that both Red Bull cars have had faster race pace at Imola? Leclerc couldn't challenge either Verstappen or Perez for their spots on the track. It was really surprising esp after seeing how Leclerc lead around 90% of the sprint race... It looks like I'd have to put betting on 'winner of race, pole position' every GP on hold. Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

And I don't mind Imola. If they were to remove Imola from the calendar due to impossibility of overtaking then remove Monaco and a couple others too.

RedBull had the best package in Imola, but RedBull also benefited from Ferrari's own mistakes, you have to be fair. In addition, Ferrari did not bring any updates because of the sprint race and the resulting lack of time. They will probably come in Miami, where there is a completely new track and the forces can change again.

But in any case, in contrast to the last seasons, this season 2 cars are on a par, even though I think Ferrari still has a bit more room for improvement, but Red Bull has managed to make it very difficult to overtake them on the straights, which is definitely a small advantage.

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Quote from: tokeweed on April 25, 2022, 08:11:36 AM

Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

I think the Red Bull issue is that it's either forced to retire, or it isn't. I don't think there's much question on (or impact on) the raw speed. Maybe they've fixed the issues, maybe not, but it's not the difference between 1st and 2nd, it's the difference between finish (whether 1st or 2nd) and DNF.

Ferrari looked faster last time around. RB looked faster this time around. I'm not sure this says much other than the cars are pretty evenly-matched, and some tracks suit RB more than they suit Ferrari, and vice versa.

... but of course this is all speculation, really it's still too early to answer anything for sure (other than that Mercedes would be better off dropping their car down to Formula 2, where it might be able to compete. Or if they're still struggling there, drop them down again to compete against go-karts).

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

Redbull deserved the victory today, too many mistakes by Ferrari.

But I don't understand who likes this track, I hate it.

It is almost impossible for overtaking, look at Hamilton with Gasly.

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

Red Bull did but it's not just the mistakes from Ferrari. Have you noticed that both Red Bull cars have had faster race pace at Imola? Leclerc couldn't challenge either Verstappen or Perez for their spots on the track. It was really surprising esp after seeing how Leclerc lead around 90% of the sprint race... It looks like I'd have to put betting on 'winner of race, pole position' every GP on hold. Red Bull might have fixed their issues and Ferrari might not dominate the season after all. We'll see.

And I don't mind Imola. If they were to remove Imola from the calendar due to impossibility of overtaking then remove Monaco and a couple others too.

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Quote from: dezoel on April 25, 2022, 12:16:34 AM

If we are talking about the "best car" then I would have picked Red Bull over Ferrari this year, and everyone was so hyped about Ferrari so far that they keep on forgetting Red Bull does win when they can finish races.

The main problem is that, if Red Bull can't finish races then we are going to see them lose out on many many points because of that. Like for example we have seen that Red Bull managed to overtake Ferrari and they looked much better just even on sprint right? This means during the race they would be even better. However, if they end up not being able to finish the race then they can't get even a single point.

This weekend the Red Bull definitely was the superior car. This was obvious in the qualifying in the sprint and also in the race on sunday. It is normal that people are hyped about the performance of this years Ferrari because i think no one expected them to make such a big step forward. I mean they were so far behind in the previous years and now they can fight for the championship again. Red Bull already had a competitive car in the last season and therefore people just expected them to have a good car this year again. That is also the reason why the bad performance of Mercedes is so surprising for almost everyone because we are so used to Mercedes dominating everything.

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Quote from: swogerino on April 25, 2022, 05:34:36 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

Redbull deserved the victory today, too many mistakes by Ferrari.

But I don't understand who likes this track, I hate it.

It is almost impossible for overtaking, look at Hamilton with Gasly.

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

I think the overtaking is difficult now that with the new regulations we are seeing times compared to track records of 3-4 seconds more,Imola otherwise is a legendary track and we saw last year a great battle between Hamilton and Verstappen and then a lot of overtaking took place last year,the problems with overtaking is just because of the new regulations from what I saw yesterday.However bold guys did overtake,Hamilton just wasn't motivated enough to make that pass as he was fighting in the back of the grid.

I also like Imola just an old school track, it's hard to overtake there as has been mentioned for the brave guys. Definitely Hamilton in the inferior car is not that motivated this year.

What I love about the old school tracks every mistake is punished see Ferrari, Leclerc was over motivated and lucky to score any points at all, Sainz was just unlucky like Mir in MotoGP, but that's the way it is on the old school tracks with gravel beds, you get stuck right away on the new tracks like in France you just keep driving...

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

Redbull deserved the victory today, too many mistakes by Ferrari.

But I don't understand who likes this track, I hate it.

It is almost impossible for overtaking, look at Hamilton with Gasly.

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

I think the overtaking is difficult now that with the new regulations we are seeing times compared to track records of 3-4 seconds more,Imola otherwise is a legendary track and we saw last year a great battle between Hamilton and Verstappen and then a lot of overtaking took place last year,the problems with overtaking is just because of the new regulations from what I saw yesterday.However bold guys did overtake,Hamilton just wasn't motivated enough to make that pass as he was fighting in the back of the grid.

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Quote from: Davian144 on April 24, 2022, 09:27:59 PM

~

Very surprising result in the MotoGP race, nobody expected a victory from Fabio (superior and unthreatened) and certainly not me. Very sad for Mir, he had a very good race, the Suzuki works well, unfortunately Miller was a bit over-motivated and Mir was unlucky that Miller also caught him. Honda was a bit weak and Marc had a very unstable bike.

Yes what you write about Moto2, the sudden rain caused a mass crash, but luckily no one was seriously injured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04VzfIeQpWg

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If we are talking about the "best car" then I would have picked Red Bull over Ferrari this year, and everyone was so hyped about Ferrari so far that they keep on forgetting Red Bull does win when they can finish races.

The main problem is that, if Red Bull can't finish races then we are going to see them lose out on many many points because of that. Like for example we have seen that Red Bull managed to overtake Ferrari and they looked much better just even on sprint right? This means during the race they would be even better. However, if they end up not being able to finish the race then they can't get even a single point.

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Yesterday there was a MASS ACCIDENT!
RED FLAG #Moto2 #PortugueseGP
9 more riders fell on the second corner due to rain that suddenly wet the track when the race started.

There didn't appear to be any serious injuries, but one of the drivers (perhaps Ogura) was almost hit by a motorbike that fell quickly. Very terrible!

What fell:
Canet
Beaubier
Ogura
Arbolino
A. Fernandez
Chantra
Lowes
Arenas
Corsi
van den Goorbergh
Acosta

And after that, only 18 riders can follow the restart of Moto2 racing for 7 laps. Most riders who fall cannot return to the pits to repair the bike or do not have enough time to repair the bike. _{Source: gpracingindonesia}

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Quote from: Sirait on April 24, 2022, 01:43:28 PM

Quote from: ingiltere on April 24, 2022, 10:17:25 AM

Bad day for Ferrari at home. Red Bull did the double. Verstappen didn't have any problem finishing first, Perez was second and Norris got third position after Leclerc's dramatic spin. Sainz was out in first lap, what a disappointment. Red Bull is trying to catch Ferrari and this 1-2 finish was a great result for them. Mercedes looks pretty weak, even CEO said sorry in radio to Hamilton after the race. I wonder how they will fix issues for next races.

these two red bull racers (verstappen and perez) completely dominated the race from the start, while ferrari (leclerc) had to settle for finishing in 6th position. GRAND PRIX EMILIA this time belongs to the red bull team.

Quote from: Jackl87 on April 24, 2022, 02:06:00 PM

Quote from: swogerino on April 24, 2022, 10:10:53 AM

It looks like the massive upgrade promised by Rebdull seems to have worked during the race of today.While many Ferrari fans will be disappointed let me tell that it was only because of individual drivers errors and not the car,Ferrari was still great as a car although in this track Redbull excelled and was a perfect race from them.For the Championship this was good in the sense that it closed quite a lot of gap and the next race is going to be the new track after two weeks in Miami,which promises even more spectacle to watch.

This race today was not as spectacular as the other ones of this season so far but still nice to watch. Sainz was unlucky again and this time it was clearly not is fault that he had to quit the race after only a few seconds. He really needs to make a good position next race or he will be the clear number 2 driver already for the rest of the season. Verstappen had a very dominant race today and was never in danger of being attacked by another driver. The performance of Mercedes was pretty poor again today but i somehow still believe that they will present an amazing update to the car in the next weeks and that they can still fight for the championship. We will see.

I too didn’t enjoy the race much but for what’s it worth this season Hamilton will no longer be dominating it, thus the rivalry between Redbull and Ferrari will be interesting to watch this season. Furthermore I feel that the new upgrade won’t make up for the lost time as Hamilton confidence will be effected, and thus it’s fair to say that Ferrari or Redbull is going to win this year.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on April 24, 2022, 03:19:07 PM

I hope Imola will never go on the calendar again.

I have to disappoint you, but Imola is on calendar until 2025 at least Cheesy

. Yeah, this track isn't perfect for overtaking, but Lewis stuck behind Gasly is more Mercedes problem than track. I still prefer tracks like this instead of these fancy street circuits.
We will see one of such tracks for the first time, Miami GP in stadium parking after 2 weeks.

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Quote from: Tumanggor on April 24, 2022, 08:58:13 AM

Congratulations to Fabio Quartararo for winning the MotoGP Portugal 2022 on the Algarve circuit. I'm a little surprised by what the commentators say that this is Quartararo's first win of 2022

temporary point gain...

Quote

1. Fabio Quartararo 69
2. Alex Rins 69
3. Aleix Espargaro 66
4. Enea Bastianini 61
5. Johann Zarco 51
6. Joan Mir 46
7. Brad Binder 42
8. Miguel Oliveira 39
9. Jack Miller 31
10. Francesco Bagnaia 31

Yes, it was really amazing because Fabio Quartararo was able to maintain his Race Pace from the beginning of the race to the end of the race which was even able to make the distance with his opponent more than 5 seconds and that was something that surprised everyone because he started the race from 5th place.
I see that Yamaha will be getting stronger at several other European circuits this season, especially for Fabio Quartararo. And what's unique is that after the Race in the Algarve Portugal today, there is no Honda in the top 10 temporary standings.

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