Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 385.

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Quote from: Luzin on September 12, 2021, 08:24:38 PM

Quote from: Koal-84 on September 12, 2021, 02:48:25 AM

It will be very difficult for Fabio, the Desmo rockets are very difficult to overtake on this course, the Yamaha simply lacks the top speed and must always be very late on the brakes. Maybe he has an advantage of slipstream behind the Ducati?

It's true what I thought, big power bikes will dominate this race. See Ducati and Honda appear to dominate. Apart from that Marquez looked great today, he fought with Bagnaia for 1st position. Unfortunately he was a little wide making Bagnaia more flexible in the front position. Marquez looked like he really wanted to win here he tried to overtake a few times, but Bagnaia seemed calmer so he was able to hold on.

It was spectacular battle between Bagnaia and Marquez in the last few laps. Marquez tried so hard to overtake Bagnaia, around 7-8 tries if I remember it correctly but always fail due to getting a bit wide so Bagnaia could retake the position on that 7-8 tries. As predicted, Quartararo was not able to compete for the podium and finished on 8th.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on September 12, 2021, 02:48:25 AM

It will be very difficult for Fabio, the Desmo rockets are very difficult to overtake on this course, the Yamaha simply lacks the top speed and must always be very late on the brakes. Maybe he has an advantage of slipstream behind the Ducati?

It's true what I thought, big power bikes will dominate this race. See Ducati and Honda appear to dominate. Apart from that Marquez looked great today, he fought with Bagnaia for 1st position. Unfortunately he was a little wide making Bagnaia more flexible in the front position. Marquez looked like he really wanted to win here he tried to overtake a few times, but Bagnaia seemed calmer so he was able to hold on.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on September 12, 2021, 12:40:17 PM

The decision is already in, Verstappen takes the penalty

Yes, I predict correctly.
Both were at fault but Max got a major mistake since he chose to cut the turn and crust into Hamilton while he could just release the break and go ahead and do the shortcut.

Fair decision, IMHO.

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Quote from: Cnut237 on September 12, 2021, 12:23:59 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

It was Hamilton’s fault... Just like Silver Stone.
But it was good for Verstappen. He retains the lead in the driver’s championship. Hamilton screwed himself over. Lmao.

The stewards' decisions is that Verstappen is predominantly to blame. He takes a 3 place grid penalty at the next race (plus 2 points on his licence).
I'm sure he didn't mean to plant his car on top of Hamilton's, but this sort of thing in football is called a professional foul - it did appear that he deliberately took Hamilton out, so as not to lose points.

But I think both drivers need to cool down before one of them gets hurt. At Silverstone Hamilton was found predominantly to blame. The word "predominantly" occurs both times, and is key here. Neither driver wants to give an inch.

Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

Lmao.

I don't think that's appropriate. If we didn't have the halo, a driver would be dead.

Good and valid points.

Did you see Max in the lap before how he jumped the curb and basically went off the track just so to overtake another driver?
He was going all in on this race even if it was at a peril of another driver AND HIMSELF so to win the race.
I like how you posted his radio call. It shows he is an arrogant person to the point his decisions put others in danger and only cares about himself.
This race in Italy showed his true colors. The stewards made the right decision because do you really want someone on the same track as you putting others in such circumstances?
I do not believe you would if you were one of those drivers going over 200mph playing with your life. Embarrassed

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Quote from: Cnut237 on September 12, 2021, 12:23:59 PM

Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

It was Hamilton’s fault... Just like Silver Stone.

But it was good for Verstappen. He retains the lead in the driver’s championship. Hamilton screwed himself over. Lmao.

The stewards' decisions is that Verstappen is predominantly to blame. He takes a 3 place grid penalty at the next race (plus 2 points on his licence).
I'm sure he didn't mean to plant his car on top of Hamilton's, but this sort of thing in football is called a professional foul - it did appear that he deliberately took Hamilton out, so as not to lose points.

Weird, i really thought that this was a normal racing accident where none of both drivers would receive a penalty but if i had to pick someone that is to blame i would have probably picked Hamilton and not Verstappen. It also seems to me that many had the same impression, looking at this thread and also at social media. Ralf Schumacher also said, that it was a normal racing accident but it was more Hamiltons fault than Verstappens, but he also added that it was very clever from Verstappen. So this decision is really surprising to me and i am pretty sure that Red Bull will not accept this decision without a protest.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 12, 2021, 12:38:01 PM

They are both in fault, if they will have a penalty they will both have.

The decision is already in, Verstappen takes the penalty, none for Hamilton (see my post above). As with Silverstone, the word is "predominantly". As with Silverstone, the important thing is that both drivers are physically okay. But the battle will continue through the remainder of the season. I wonder if it happens again the stewards will take more drastic action?

And I don't think this next bit is acceptable at all... Verstappen on the radio, "That's what you get when you don't leave the space", his car literally on top of someone else's while he's radioing in, and the message is not "Is he okay?" or "Is he alive?"... it's basically "F*** you".

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Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

^ But in how it happened, Hamilton should have given Verstappen the space needed to avoid a collision. And they were racing ffs. Would Hamilton slow down if he was in Verstappen’s shoes? It was Hamilton’s fault... Just like Silver Stone.

But it was good for Verstappen. He retains the lead in the driver’s championship. Hamilton screwed himself over. Lmao.

And how exactly? Stopping his car?
Max was outside the track, in the chicane since he was too fast to avoid the collision he could just go ahead and rejoin the track later like here.

source: https://www.google.com/search?q=monza+1st+turn&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=AOaemvJeJXhbanP8VVyM6jF64syy8fXowQ:1631468188404&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj40NPO_PnyAhWC-KQKHREaAEcQ_AUoAHoECAEQCg&biw=1474&bih=675#imgrc=vIKsYfRQnZt4KM

They are both in fault, if they will have a penalty they will both have.

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Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

It was Hamilton’s fault... Just like Silver Stone.

But it was good for Verstappen. He retains the lead in the driver’s championship. Hamilton screwed himself over. Lmao.

The stewards' decisions is that Verstappen is predominantly to blame. He takes a 3 place grid penalty at the next race (plus 2 points on his licence).
I'm sure he didn't mean to plant his car on top of Hamilton's, but this sort of thing in football is called a professional foul - it did appear that he deliberately took Hamilton out, so as not to lose points.

But I think both drivers need to cool down before one of them gets hurt. At Silverstone Hamilton was found predominantly to blame. The word "predominantly" occurs both times, and is key here. Neither driver wants to give an inch.

Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 10:05:42 AM

Lmao.

I don't think that's appropriate. If we didn't have the halo, a driver would be dead.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on September 12, 2021, 09:54:37 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 09:39:50 AM

What a race... The incident between Verstappen and Hamilton was def Hamilton’s fault. IMHO. But being Hamilton, I think he’ll get another pass just like at Silver Stone.

And I was against halo before... Not anymore. Verstappen’s rear wheel would’ve landed on Hamilton’s head and could’ve injured him... Even kill him.

Edit: And oh yeah... Congrats to Ricciardo. Nice to see him on the podium. Could it be that McLaren discovered something with their car? Wink

Next race should be interesting.

Verstappen could slow down to avoid the bounce on kerbs too.

Both will be penalized or have no sanctions.

^ But in how it happened, Hamilton should have given Verstappen the space needed to avoid a collision. And they were racing ffs. Would Hamilton slow down if he was in Verstappen’s shoes? It was Hamilton’s fault... Just like Silver Stone.

But it was good for Verstappen. He retains the lead in the driver’s championship. Hamilton screwed himself over. Lmao.

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I don't have opinion, who is responsible for accident. Similar like in Silverstone, I think that both is partially responsible. If not Halo, it's scary to imagine possible outcome of accident. And fight for title is getting so hot.
Mclaren double win, plus fastrst lap, something amazing. So happy for Ricciardo win and it's great to see Shoey again.
Great race for Bottas - P3 after start in bottom. Seems that engine change wasn't bad decision.
Russel continue to perform great - P9 today.

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Quote from: tokeweed on September 12, 2021, 09:39:50 AM

What a race... The incident between Verstappen and Hamilton was def Hamilton’s fault. IMHO. But being Hamilton, I think he’ll get another pass just like at Silver Stone.

And I was against halo before... Not anymore. Verstappen’s rear wheel would’ve landed on Hamilton’s head and could’ve injured him... Even kill him.

Edit: And oh yeah... Congrats to Ricciardo. Nice to see him on the podium. Could it be that McLaren discovered something with their car? Wink

Next race should be interesting.

Verstappen could slow down to avoid the bounce on kerbs too.

Both will be penalized or have no sanctions.

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What a race... The incident between Verstappen and Hamilton was def Hamilton’s fault. IMHO. But being Hamilton, I think he’ll get another pass just like at Silver Stone.

And I was against halo before... Not anymore. Verstappen’s rear wheel would’ve landed on Hamilton’s head and could’ve injured him... Even kill him.

Edit: And oh yeah... Congrats to Ricciardo. Nice to see him on the podium. Could it be that McLaren discovered something with their car? Wink

Next race should be interesting.

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Great win for McLaren after their last win in Brazil 2012.They did again 1-2 and last time they did this was in Canada 2010.What an awesome race from McLaren,well deserved to Ricciardo after the move on Verstappen in the start and keeping P1 during almost all the race.Wonderful race,really needed a change in F1,an other winning team rather than only Mercedes and RedBull.Big smile on Ricciardo face right now and it is great to see this,hopefully McLaren starts a new chapter full of wins from this year an on.

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Woah Verstappen got Hamilton, and they are both out from the GP.
Both of them got a pit box with mistakes and in the exit, they collided.

I think is more Max Fault, who will win now? I'm going for Ricciardo.

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Both Verstappen and Hamilton out after the first pit stops in the first turn,Max attacked a bit too much for my taste but anyway the result is they are both out of the race and we have the first safety car.Chances are really high now for McLaren or Ferrari to win the race as they are P1 and P3 McLaren now and P2 Ferrari with Sergio Perez in P4.Surely the drama will go on in the remaining laps in the temple of speed,Monza.

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Congratulations to Francesco Bagnaia, the 2021 Aragon MotoGP champion and Marquez in second place.

The two riders went ahead of each other to reach the last lap and it was nice to see these two riders, and I think everyone thought only Bagnaia and Maruez were racing because the cameraman was only focused on them because they were both very interesting to watch. Grin

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 11, 2021, 11:18:49 PM

.......

I am still on Quartararo, he will stand on the podium. maybe will be competing with the Ducati team (Bagnaia and Miller), but for Marquez, I won't expect too much, I know he always crashes, he really insists on taking up his speed while tilting but is unable to maintain balance. He didn't found his best performance yet. what else Rossi.

The characteristic of the track in Aragon will be an advantage to Ducati with its horsepower. Marquez in other side has great record in Aragon as a rider with the most win, so I think it will motivate Marquez to make another comeback after failed in the previous races. Hence, it is hard to predict who will be on the podium at the end of the race but I guess it will a tough race.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 11, 2021, 11:18:49 PM

Quote from: Luzin on September 10, 2021, 09:33:51 PM

The results of free practice 2 in Aragon can be seen if the motor with great power dominates the results.
Yamaha only leaves Quartararo at the top. A challenge for Quartararo to win, seeing last season he was bad result in here.

Just forget for practice, we have the result who have the best starting grid today.

1. Bagnaia
2. Miller
3. Quartararo
4. Marquez
4. Martin
6. Espargaro

https://www.motogp.com/

I am still on Quartararo, he will stand on the podium. maybe will be competing with the Ducati team (Bagnaia and Miller), but for Marquez, I won't expect too much, I know he always crashes, he really insists on taking up his speed while tilting but is unable to maintain balance. He didn't found his best performance yet. what else Rossi.

It will be very difficult for Fabio, the Desmo rockets are very difficult to overtake on this course, the Yamaha simply lacks the top speed and must always be very late on the brakes. Maybe he has an advantage of slipstream behind the Ducati?

As always, it will also depend very much on the tire management, will be an exciting race.

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Even if Valtteri Bottas won the sprint race, still he is going to start the race at the last position because of getting a penalty. Verstappen has taken the pole position and Hamilton is going to start at the fourth place. It may be seen as a disadvantage for Hamilton but he still seems like one of the fastest drivers on this track. I think that we will still watch a great rivalry between him and Verstappen.

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Quote from: blue Snow on September 11, 2021, 11:18:49 PM

Just forget for practice, we have the result who have the best starting grid today.

Sometimes it's interesting to listen to the Free Practice session, even though it's not the final result to start the race. Sometimes there are interesting events that make the racer fail to go to the race.

Regarding Quartararo, if he starts well maybe he can close the race with a win. The front two grids are racers with great power, it seems that Fabio has to be extra, especially since the circuit character supports a large power motor.

Regarding Marquez, he can't be as stable as he seems, while Rossi doesn't expect him to win. But to be honest at this time I don't have a favorite rider other than Rossi.

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