Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 466.

Cnut237

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 22, 2020, 03:38:37 AM

2022 the cards are reshuffled

Yes. 2021 looks quite predictable: Constructors' champions? Mercedes. Drivers' championship? 1) Hamilton, 2/3) Bottas/Verstappen, 4) Perez.

The biggest unknown for me is the impact Perez will have. If Red Bull can have both drivers challenging the Mercedes, then that reduces the Merc 2-1 advantage that means they can always run a split strategy to keep one car ahead of Red Bull. Perez performing well puts huge pressure on Bottas.

And 2022 is when it should get more exciting, with hopefully closer racing and no single team dominating so much. But still, you'd have to be brave to bet against Mercedes coming out on top again.

marioantonini

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Quote from: sana54210 on December 22, 2020, 12:41:21 PM

I believe Mercedes will never be caught unless some team decides to put insane amount of money into their cars. Also remember these are hundreds of millions of dollars worth of projects, to even have a F1 car is an insane idea, nobody should go into this thinking profits because you are going to bleed out cash like nothing else, hell it is going to hurt business more than it helps them. All the fame and power and recognition and advertisement you get will not be covered considering how much money you lose.

However, let's assume some crazy boss or CEO goes insane and decides to spend double what Mercedes spends, at that point any team can catch up to Mercedes, all they need is a whole new huge team that can work on the next car, and a team that works on even further while you keep on working on current car all different teams. That is literally the only thing that you can do, there is no other answer to Mercedes other than spend more than them.

unfortunately with the current formula 1 rules, no one can spend a lot of money, by regulation, in 2021 it is possible to spend only 145 million dollars per season (excluding salaries).
Mercedes is way ahead with the engine and hybrid side, it has spent a lot on research in previous years. With the new 2021 rules, however, it could begin to lose competitiveness, we also remember the Ferrari of the Schumacher era, it seemed invincible, then it never won again

sana54210

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I believe Mercedes will never be caught unless some team decides to put insane amount of money into their cars. Also remember these are hundreds of millions of dollars worth of projects, to even have a F1 car is an insane idea, nobody should go into this thinking profits because you are going to bleed out cash like nothing else, hell it is going to hurt business more than it helps them. All the fame and power and recognition and advertisement you get will not be covered considering how much money you lose.

However, let's assume some crazy boss or CEO goes insane and decides to spend double what Mercedes spends, at that point any team can catch up to Mercedes, all they need is a whole new huge team that can work on the next car, and a team that works on even further while you keep on working on current car all different teams. That is literally the only thing that you can do, there is no other answer to Mercedes other than spend more than them.

tokeweed

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Quote from: Cnut237 on December 22, 2020, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: swogerino on December 19, 2020, 03:05:05 AM

Red Bull needs to improve their dynamics as we have seen in some tracks during this season that they don’t suffer from engine power because Honda has improved a lot and won 2 races this year.Also in some big straights the top
speed was led by Honda engine.It is going to be a really good season the 2021 as many good drivers have good cars.

It's worth considering that Mercedes were so far ahead of the rest in the early part of the season, that they took the decision to stop development of the 2020 car entirely, and move focus to the 2021 car. But other teams, including Red Bull, continued to develop their 2020 car during the latter part of the season. This is why Red Bull closed up to Mercedes - they were getting better whilst the Merc was remaining the same.

I strongly suspect that once we start the 2021 season, Mercedes will suddenly have a development advantage again after all the work they've done so far on the 2021 car during 2020.

Come to think of it.. Merc has been having engine development advantage since the switch to the V6 Turbos. And due to politics, I don't think we'll be seeing F1 going back to the screaming V8's, V10's, V12's.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Cnut237 on December 22, 2020, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: swogerino on December 19, 2020, 03:05:05 AM

Red Bull needs to improve their dynamics as we have seen in some tracks during this season that they don’t suffer from engine power because Honda has improved a lot and won 2 races this year.Also in some big straights the top
speed was led by Honda engine.It is going to be a really good season the 2021 as many good drivers have good cars.

It's worth considering that Mercedes were so far ahead of the rest in the early part of the season, that they took the decision to stop development of the 2020 car entirely, and move focus to the 2021 car. But other teams, including Red Bull, continued to develop their 2020 car during the latter part of the season. This is why Red Bull closed up to Mercedes - they were getting better whilst the Merc was remaining the same.

I strongly suspect that once we start the 2021 season, Mercedes will suddenly have a development advantage again after all the work they've done so far on the 2021 car during 2020.

I also think over the course of the year they will be inviolable again, only on a few routes they will probably not be so superior. And at the year 2022 the cards are reshuffled but we will see Huh

Cnut237

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Quote from: swogerino on December 19, 2020, 03:05:05 AM

Red Bull needs to improve their dynamics as we have seen in some tracks during this season that they don’t suffer from engine power because Honda has improved a lot and won 2 races this year.Also in some big straights the top
speed was led by Honda engine.It is going to be a really good season the 2021 as many good drivers have good cars.

It's worth considering that Mercedes were so far ahead of the rest in the early part of the season, that they took the decision to stop development of the 2020 car entirely, and move focus to the 2021 car. But other teams, including Red Bull, continued to develop their 2020 car during the latter part of the season. This is why Red Bull closed up to Mercedes - they were getting better whilst the Merc was remaining the same.

I strongly suspect that once we start the 2021 season, Mercedes will suddenly have a development advantage again after all the work they've done so far on the 2021 car during 2020.

marioantonini

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 21, 2020, 04:17:23 AM

Wolff also has a large share in the success in my opinion and it is good to tie him to Mercedes for another 3 years

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-committed-for-life-mercedes/4929985/

certainly a large part of Mercedes success is also of Toto Wolf (as Niky Lauda also helped a lot to manage the drivers, at the time of Nico Rosberg), but if he has 33% of the company, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars, I thought was a simple manager.
Now, however, it is important for them to renew Hamilton's contract as well, but maybe 3 years of renewal are too many for me and they will only do 2

tokeweed

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Quote from: AndySt on December 18, 2020, 06:37:12 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 05:39:25 PM

Happy for Perez and his chance at Redbull.
Disappointed by Redbull and his change of philosophy, they have the best drivers' academy do they really need this "old" driver?
Maybe they want a benchmark finally to test Verstappen.
Missing only the final spot of Hamilton even if he 99% with Mercedes after what he said this afertnoon.

Helmut Marko wanted a thrill and a little spur Verstappen competition with the stubborn Mexican, as well as to show his students that the native academy is not an iron guarantee of performance in the championship Wink

It seems that if not for Hamilton's financial ambitions, the signing of the contract would have been announced long ago. It seems that Hamilton will moderate his financial appetites a little for the sake of the 8th Formula 1 title, especially since Toto Wolff remains for another 3 years, and from the outside it seems that Lewis is comfortable working with this team leader.

It's not that.. It's more like RBR doesn't have the talent to give the second drive to. Lol. I mean who's gonna replace Albon that's gonna be consistent every race week? It's more like they didn't have a choice.

Anyway.. is Alonso going back to Renault?

Koal-84

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Quote from: swogerino on December 19, 2020, 03:05:05 AM

Red Bull needs to improve their dynamics as we have seen in some tracks during this season that they don’t suffer from engine power because Honda has improved a lot and won 2 races this year.Also in some big straights the top
speed was led by Honda engine.It is going to be a really good season the 2021 as many good drivers have good cars.

RedBull is definitiv stronger with Perez next year, and also Albon aren't leave the team and his is test driver.

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/perez-red-bull-verstappen-2021/4929131

Quote from: marioantonini on December 19, 2020, 01:32:11 PM

Toto Wolff has finally renewed the contract with Mercedes for another 3 years and Ineos has moved from the role of sponsor to the role of shareholder, now Mercedes F1 has 3 shareholders with equal shares, 33.3%, i.e. Toto Wolf, Ineos and Daimler. I didn't know Wolf was so rich that he even had 1/3 of the Mercedes F1

Wolff also has a large share in the success in my opinion and it is good to tie him to Mercedes for another 3 years

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-committed-for-life-mercedes/4929985/

marioantonini

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Toto Wolff has finally renewed the contract with Mercedes for another 3 years and Ineos has moved from the role of sponsor to the role of shareholder, now Mercedes F1 has 3 shareholders with equal shares, 33.3%, i.e. Toto Wolf, Ineos and Daimler. I didn't know Wolf was so rich that he even had 1/3 of the Mercedes F1

swogerino

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Red Bull needs to improve their dynamics as we have seen in some tracks during this season that they don’t suffer from engine power because Honda has improved a lot and won 2 races this year.Also in some big straights the top
speed was led by Honda engine.It is going to be a really good season the 2021 as many good drivers have good cars.

Cnut237

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Quote from: LTU_btc on December 18, 2020, 07:07:34 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 05:39:25 PM

Happy for Perez and his chance at Redbull.
Disappointed by Redbull and his change of philosophy, they have the best drivers' academy do they really need this "old" driver?

Maybe they want a benchmark finally to test Verstappen.

Perez really deserved spot in top team, I'm very happy that he stays in F1.
Red Bull really have best drivers academy, but something just don't work for them. They had many good drivers - Gasly, Kvyat, Albon who failed in Red Bull, Sainz didn't even got chance in Red Bull. Young drivers struggle to handle pressure and Red Bull don't have patience to wait until they will start to show good results.

Yes, Perez definitely deserved this chance. It will be really interesting to see how he matches up to Max. But more than this, if it starts to mean that both Red Bull drivers are challenging for podiums each race, then it puts a vast amount of pressure on Bottas to deliver. If races start finishing 1) Ham 2) Verstappen 3) Perez, then Mercedes have some real pressure on them to retain the constructors' title.

marioantonini

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Quote from: dre1982 on December 18, 2020, 09:08:06 AM

Ok it's now Offical. Perez will go to Red Bull. https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1374194/Sergio-Perez-confirmed-Max-Verstappen-Red-Bull-team-mate-Alex-Albon-axed-F1-news#:~:text=Sergio%20Perez%20has%20been%20confirmed,for%202021%20replacing%20Alex%20Albon.&text=Sergio%20Perez%20has%20been%20announced,driver%20after%20a%20disappointing%202020.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 04:44:13 AM

Just found this pearl about Hamilton during the last week Alonso driving his old 2006 Renault in Abu Dhabi.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpulR1SJGgM

Saw that vid some days earlier. Great to see Hamilton's reaction on that sound. Cool

it was the only right decision, it would have been a scandal to see Perez out of Formula 1 after perhaps his best season.
Next year there will be fun, because Perez and Verstappen together can put pressure on Hamilton, it would be enough for Red Bull to be a little faster and we will see some good races.

LTU_btc

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 05:39:25 PM

Happy for Perez and his chance at Redbull.
Disappointed by Redbull and his change of philosophy, they have the best drivers' academy do they really need this "old" driver?

Maybe they want a benchmark finally to test Verstappen.

Perez really deserved spot in top team, I'm very happy that he stays in F1.
Red Bull really have best drivers academy, but something just don't work for them. They had many good drivers - Gasly, Kvyat, Albon who failed in Red Bull, Sainz didn't even got chance in Red Bull. Young drivers struggle to handle pressure and Red Bull don't have patience to wait until they will start to show good results.

AndySt

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 05:39:25 PM

Happy for Perez and his chance at Redbull.
Disappointed by Redbull and his change of philosophy, they have the best drivers' academy do they really need this "old" driver?
Maybe they want a benchmark finally to test Verstappen.
Missing only the final spot of Hamilton even if he 99% with Mercedes after what he said this afertnoon.

Helmut Marko wanted a thrill and a little spur Verstappen competition with the stubborn Mexican, as well as to show his students that the native academy is not an iron guarantee of performance in the championship Wink

It seems that if not for Hamilton's financial ambitions, the signing of the contract would have been announced long ago. It seems that Hamilton will moderate his financial appetites a little for the sake of the 8th Formula 1 title, especially since Toto Wolff remains for another 3 years, and from the outside it seems that Lewis is comfortable working with this team leader.

coinlocket$

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Happy for Perez and his chance at Redbull.
Disappointed by Redbull and his change of philosophy, they have the best drivers' academy do they really need this "old" driver?

Maybe they want a benchmark finally to test Verstappen.

Source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1340002892292345857

Missing only the final spot of Hamilton even if he 99% with Mercedes after what he said this afertnoon.

tokeweed

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2020, 07:04:52 PM

Quote from: dre1982 on December 17, 2020, 04:50:50 PM

Tomorrow Red Bull will announce the driver next to Verstappen. Rumors that it will be Perez are getting bigger every day. Lets hope it for him.

Red Bull need to confirm Albion.

They need to keep their tradition of young drivers built on their Accademy.
I have nothing wrong with Perez but they need to keep their philosophy or they can trash their academy, I will very disappointed if they call Sergio.

He probably deserves it but meh.

Yup, I'm with you. RBR should give another guy from the junior team a chance. It's what they did with Vettel, it's what they did with Ricciardo, it's what they did with Verstappen. I wouldn't mind breaking the tradition if ever they get Vettel back tho. Grin

dre1982

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Ok it's now Offical. Perez will go to Red Bull. https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1374194/Sergio-Perez-confirmed-Max-Verstappen-Red-Bull-team-mate-Alex-Albon-axed-F1-news#:~:text=Sergio%20Perez%20has%20been%20confirmed,for%202021%20replacing%20Alex%20Albon.&text=Sergio%20Perez%20has%20been%20announced,driver%20after%20a%20disappointing%202020.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 18, 2020, 04:44:13 AM

Just found this pearl about Hamilton during the last week Alonso driving his old 2006 Renault in Abu Dhabi.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpulR1SJGgM

Saw that vid some days earlier. Great to see Hamilton's reaction on that sound. Cool

coinlocket$

legendary

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Just found this pearl about Hamilton during the last week Alonso driving his old 2006 Renault in Abu Dhabi.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpulR1SJGgM

Koal-84

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Quote from: Cnut237 on December 18, 2020, 03:39:34 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2020, 07:04:52 PM

Red Bull need to confirm Albion.
They need to keep their tradition of young drivers built on their Accademy.

It's good to see young drivers coming through, but Albon has had a chance and hasn't really shown much. Perez is the better driver and should get the seat, particularly after the way he lost the last one.

Yes this is correct, 2 young driver has already the chance at RedBull as second driver between Verstappen. But no one are good enough to challenge him or bring enough points for the constructors championship. This year for RedBull are easy for the second place, but when Ferrari have a stronger engine the will also the second place.

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