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Topic: [Mpex.co] The Scientology of Bitcoin Finance? - page 3. (Read 27619 times)

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.

Go set it up on BitBet.

Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.
You are implying Satoshi Dice was/is somehow worthless?  Although my knowledge is limited weren't the shares bought out at a premium not delisted.  Your own post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/calling-out-casinobitcoin-465334 mentions the venture as a successful one. 
As far ASICminer vs MPEx the valuations seem in line if one believes that MPEx is the only trustworthy BTC Stock exchange vs ASICminer being one of many ASIC manufacturerers.  Even if not most successful at least trustworthy up till now so why the dislike of them?

There is a difference between "worthless" and "having no published market cap since it is not listed to trade anywhere". Since SatoshiDice is no longer publicly traded, it obviously cannot be one of the highest valued publicly traded companies anymore.
Glad you agree that satoshi dice doesn't have a market cap of 0.  Unless I misread you. 
+1 on the bet idea.  What are the other terms?  Although if jimmothy thinks mpex will collapse wouldn't he think bitbet would too?  So betting on bitbet about bitbet collapsing seems ...

BitBet and MPEx are separate, but if you know a better bitcoin betting platform then go ahead and set the bet up there.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.

Go set it up on BitBet.

Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.
You are implying Satoshi Dice was/is somehow worthless?  Although my knowledge is limited weren't the shares bought out at a premium not delisted.  Your own post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/calling-out-casinobitcoin-465334 mentions the venture as a successful one. 
As far ASICminer vs MPEx the valuations seem in line if one believes that MPEx is the only trustworthy BTC Stock exchange vs ASICminer being one of many ASIC manufacturerers.  Even if not most successful at least trustworthy up till now so why the dislike of them?

There is a difference between "worthless" and "having no published market cap since it is not listed to trade anywhere". Since SatoshiDice is no longer publicly traded, it obviously cannot be one of the highest valued publicly traded companies anymore.
Glad you agree that satoshi dice doesn't have a market cap of 0.  Unless I misread you. 
+1 on the bet idea.  What are the other terms?  Although if jimmothy thinks mpex will collapse wouldn't he think bitbet would too?  So betting on bitbet about bitbet collapsing seems ...
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.

My bet is this ponzi collapses within the next 6 months.

Meanwhile, cca 1991,

Quote
LEVITAN: I wanna remind everyone that the tenth anniversary party for Rick Barr Properties is gonna be Wednesday afternoon at four o'clock in Lasky's Bar, on Madison 48th. I want all of you to be there. This really means a lot to me. Is that Costanza over there? What are you doing here?

GEORGE: What?

LEVITAN: Am I crazy, or didn't you quit?

GEORGE: When?

LEVITAN: Friday.

GEORGE: Oh, what? What? That? Are you kidding? I didn't quit. What? You took that seriously?

LEVITAN: You mean, laughingstock? All that stuff?

GEORGE: Come on. Will you stop it.

LEVITAN: No brains? No ability?

GEORGE: Teasing.

LEVITAN: Okay. I want you outta here.

GEORGE: I don't know where you're getting this from. I....you're serious aren't you? Oh, (laughing) you see? You see, you just don't know my sense of humor. Dan, don't I joke around all the time?

DAN: I wouldn't say all the time.

LEVITAN: You can't win. You can't beat me. That's why I'm here and you're there. Because I'm a winner. I'll always be a winner and you'll always be a loser.

You Georges of the world really do have infinite hitpoints, don't you. Here's a hint. Those people aren't really around anymore. And in 2021 I'll be having the same discussion, with fuckwits equally certain in their Dunning-Kruger sponsored fuckwittery.

So...whatever.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.

Go set it up on BitBet.

Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.
You are implying Satoshi Dice was/is somehow worthless?  Although my knowledge is limited weren't the shares bought out at a premium not delisted.  Your own post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/calling-out-casinobitcoin-465334 mentions the venture as a successful one. 
As far ASICminer vs MPEx the valuations seem in line if one believes that MPEx is the only trustworthy BTC Stock exchange vs ASICminer being one of many ASIC manufacturerers.  Even if not most successful at least trustworthy up till now so why the dislike of them?

There is a difference between "worthless" and "having no published market cap since it is not listed to trade anywhere". Since SatoshiDice is no longer publicly traded, it obviously cannot be one of the highest valued publicly traded companies anymore.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.
You are implying Satoshi Dice was/is somehow worthless?  Although my knowledge is limited weren't the shares bought out at a premium not delisted.  Your own post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/calling-out-casinobitcoin-465334 mentions the venture as a successful one. 
As far ASICminer vs MPEx the valuations seem in line if one believes that MPEx is the only trustworthy BTC Stock exchange vs ASICminer being one of many ASIC manufacturerers.  Even if not most successful at least trustworthy up till now so why the dislike of them?
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
And for a less skewed comparison:



Value of publicly owned shares:

Mpex: 130k btc
Asicminer: 130k btc


Dividends paid last year:

Mpex: 14k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc


Amount of dividends derived directly from losses of own investors:

Mpex: 13k btc
Asicminer: 0 btc

Dividends derived from service/sales:

Mpex: 1k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc

What happened to your bet?

No BTC just hot air out the mouth or what is it?

Sorry not going to risk money on this considering it is impossible to predict the amount of btc noobs you can recruit to this cult and how your cult members will react to no income.

I would be willing to bet asicminer pays more in dividends than mpex does this year.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
blablabla

What happened to your bet?

No BTC just hot air out the mouth or what is it?
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.

And for a less skewed comparison:



Value of publicly owned shares:

Mpex: 130k btc
Asicminer: 130k btc


Dividends paid last year:

Mpex: 14k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc


Amount of dividends derived directly from losses of own investors:

Mpex: 13k btc
Asicminer: 0 btc

Dividends derived from service/sales:

Mpex: 1k btc
Asicminer: 200k btc



hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?

Satoshi Dice has delisted and thus has a market cap of 0. Asicminer is trading at about 2-300k BTC, which is nowhere near in range. Thus, gone, in the context we were discussing, which was MPEx' oppressively colossal 8-900k BTC weight.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1006
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
... Others have come and gone, be it Satoshi Dice, Asicminer or what have you. ...
Where exactly has Satoshi Dice and Asicminer gone?
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
I love it how you know nobody buys your shit.

You really are an artist when it comes to the art of bullshitting. Isn't there a word for people like that? Oh yea it's called a con artist.

My bet is this ponzi collapses within the next 6 months. Depending on whether or not there is another influx of bitcoin noobs to recruit to the cult of mpex.

So go make your bet then.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
This isn't nearly as unreasonable as it seems

I love it how you know nobody buys your shit.

You really are an artist when it comes to the art of bullshitting. Isn't there a word for people like that? Oh yea it's called a con artist.

My bet is this ponzi collapses within the next 6 months. Depending on whether or not there is another influx of bitcoin noobs to recruit to the cult of mpex.

I might be amenable to taking the other side of this bet.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
This isn't nearly as unreasonable as it seems

I love it how you know nobody buys your shit.

You really are an artist when it comes to the art of bullshitting. Isn't there a word for people like that? Oh yea it's called a con artist.

My bet is this ponzi collapses within the next 6 months. Depending on whether or not there is another influx of bitcoin noobs to recruit to the cult of mpex.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Yes, if you go by just the amount of trading done right now, and a PE of 10 you would get a price of 0.0000086 (compare to the current price of about 0.00086, that is a difference of two orders of magnitude). But the system which MPEx has set up is secure and useful, so it is reasonable to expect the amount of trade to go up in the future.


Edit: My calculation: 36010 (monthly volume) * 12 (months) * 0.002 (trading fee) * 10 (PE estimate) / 1 billion shares

Alternatively, and perhaps much more rationally, 0.00086 (share price) / 36010 (monthly volume) / 12 (months) / 0.002 (trading fee) *  1 billion shares would yield a PE of 995, which seems to be what a well run, trusted Bitcoin business trades for.

One can't ignore the market indefinitely. For the past two years MPEx has been practically without exception the largest venture in Bitcoin. Others have come and gone, be it Satoshi Dice, Asicminer or what have you. At times of crisis the entire rest of the Bitcoin economy collapsed into nothingness, leaving MPEx to stand in excess of the sum of everything else. At times of (irrational) exuberance drastically inflated market caps on the basis of narrow available "investment" Bitcoin made competition seem possible, in aggregate, but still left MPEx the largest one Bitcoin business (with week or month-long interruptions here and there, sure).

The fact remains that Bitcoin isn't here to adapt to the needs, desires, or expectations of the fiat world. Bitcoin is here to force --with its consent, no matter how enthusiastic, or against its will, no matter how empathic-- the conformation of the fiat world. Consequently...1k PE is just what PEs are in Bitcoin, if the company doesn't suck. If it does suck...well...a fraction thereof.

This isn't nearly as unreasonable as it seems once you realize that Bitcoin, unlike fiats, is noninflationary. In 1965 a gallon of gas cost $0.31, today almost fifty years later it costs ten times as much. That's roughly 20% each year (0.2 * 50 = 10) and if you compound it yearly this comes to a whooping 9100x. Meanwhile in the same interval Berkshire Hathaway went from $14.86 per share to $182,175, which is roughly 12,259x. Not that much better (and for that matter if you compound quarterly rather than yearly, the gasoline figure is 17,292 rather than 9100). In this perspective, Berkshire has barely kept up with inflation (a little above if you compound yearly, a little below if you compound quarterly). What is the real (ie, Bitcoin-equivalent) PE of Berkshire? About 1000x, at least as degree of magnitude. Once you wash away all accounting inflation caused by fiat monetary inflation even the best of fiat companies appears quite MPEx-ish. And this as to the exceptional, the outstanding, the one-of-a-kind. God help you should you consider the merely competent, such as for instance Buffett's competitors Burlington Industries (actually, he spells it out himself).
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
So did mpex just remove the sole source of revenue other than registration fees?

For a second I thought this scam might last a few more months.

There is still the trading fee.

Ah, so this million btc valued company will now be earning a staggering few hundred satoshis a year(assuming there is still anyone using it).

So with options removed is mpex now a full blown ponzi?

I guess it is still debatable while the futures market exists even though nobody uses it. I doubt it will be removed only because then mpex would literally fit the textbook definition of a ponzi scheme instead of hiding behind a disguise.

Yes, if you go by just the amount of trading done right now, and a PE of 10 you would get a price of 0.0000086 (compare to the current price of about 0.00086, that is a difference of two orders of magnitude). But the system which MPEx has set up is secure and useful, so it is reasonable to expect the amount of trade to go up in the future.


Edit: My calculation: 36010 (monthly volume) * 12 (months) * 0.002 (trading fee) * 10 (PE estimate) / 1 billion shares
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
So did mpex just remove the sole source of revenue other than registration fees?

For a second I thought this scam might last a few more months.

There is still the trading fee.

Ah, so this million btc valued company will now be earning a staggering few hundred satoshis a year(assuming there is still anyone using it).

So with options removed is mpex now a full blown ponzi?

I guess it is still debatable while the futures market exists even though nobody uses it. I doubt it will be removed only because then mpex would literally fit the textbook definition of a ponzi scheme instead of hiding behind a disguise.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
So did mpex just remove the sole source of revenue other than registration fees?

For a second I thought this scam might last a few more months.

There is still the trading fee.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
So did mpex just remove the sole source of revenue other than registration fees?

For a second I thought this scam might last a few more months.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Too funny. Despite the incoherence of his blog post, at least MP has finally stepped up and conceded the incompetence of his former approach to options market making. For finally admitting that and quitting the business of options market making without being adequately prepared, he deserves a positive acknowledgement.

It's ironic that it was just a few months ago I warned about the risks of MP's approach to market making and even spelled it out for MP's PR lackey, but since she seems to have trouble with words of more than two syllables, all we got in return at the time was an unflattering spectacle of her flailing about in her own misunderstandings. Fortunately, MP's actions in quitting the business speak louder even than the PR lackey.

Now back to something more interesting.

What are you, stupid or something?
sr. member
Activity: 330
Merit: 255
Very nice to read the follow up to the story. Wink

In case someone is interested:

http://trilema.com/2014/mpoe-february-2014-statement/

Too funny. Despite the incoherence of his blog post, at least MP has finally stepped up and conceded the incompetence of his former approach to options market making. For finally admitting that and quitting the business of options market making without being adequately prepared, he deserves a positive acknowledgement.

It's ironic that it was just a few months ago I warned about the risks of MP's approach to market making and even spelled it out for MP's PR lackey, but since she seems to have trouble with words of more than two syllables, all we got in return at the time was an unflattering spectacle of her flailing about in her own misunderstandings. Fortunately, MP's actions in quitting the business speak louder even than the PR lackey.

Now back to something more interesting.
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