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Topic: Mt. Gox is an unlicensed money exchanger dealing in "crypto-currency." - page 2. (Read 9339 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
I transferred to Dwolla from Mt. Gox yesterday.... now i see no bit coin and no money transferred from all this.

Any idea if i will ever see what was being transferred again?

Happy ending to story!!!   Morning in Japan time after i had emailed i got the USD amount back in my account!  Bought bitcoin's sent to another place lol.  So i even made a few extra bucks with coin going down from when i sold lol.

Very happy! So glad it didn't end the way I said it might. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
I transferred to Dwolla from Mt. Gox yesterday.... now i see no bit coin and no money transferred from all this.

Any idea if i will ever see what was being transferred again?

Happy ending to story!!!   Morning in Japan time after i had emailed i got the USD amount back in my account!  Bought bitcoin's sent to another place lol.  So i even made a few extra bucks with coin going down from when i sold lol.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
FinCEN requirements, by my understanding, are concerned primarily with businesses which transfer money on behalf of other parties. If Alice transfers money to Betty to pay her for goods or services, neither Alice nor Betty is an MSB from FinCEN's point of view. But if you add an intermediary (let's call her Catherine) who takes money from Alice and gives it to Betty, and does that sort of thing commerically, then Catherine is an MSB and subject to regulation (because if Catherine wanted, and didn't have anyone watching, it'd be easy for her to hide questionable money in the cloud of transfers which she manages).
Still stupid, unnecessary snooping.

This is enlightening:
http://contrariancompliance.com/2013/04/14/is-us-regulation-the-single-biggest-threat-to-bitcoin/


For me It looks like.. Goverment is a big pile of shit. Good post, sad one anyway.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
FinCEN requirements, by my understanding, are concerned primarily with businesses which transfer money on behalf of other parties. If Alice transfers money to Betty to pay her for goods or services, neither Alice nor Betty is an MSB from FinCEN's point of view. But if you add an intermediary (let's call her Catherine) who takes money from Alice and gives it to Betty, and does that sort of thing commerically, then Catherine is an MSB and subject to regulation (because if Catherine wanted, and didn't have anyone watching, it'd be easy for her to hide questionable money in the cloud of transfers which she manages).
Still stupid, unnecessary snooping.

This is enlightening:
http://contrariancompliance.com/2013/04/14/is-us-regulation-the-single-biggest-threat-to-bitcoin/
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
It's a whois site for EVE Online.

That's right, he named his real-world corp after his MMO one.
What did you expect from the Magic the Gathering Online Exchange?
I'd like to say I'm surprised, honestly. But my momma didn't raise no liar.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
It's a whois site for EVE Online.

That's right, he named his real-world corp after his MMO one.
What did you expect from the Magic the Gathering Online Exchange?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
It's a whois site for EVE Online.

That's right, he named his real-world corp after his MMO one.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
FinCEN requirements, by my understanding, are concerned primarily with businesses which transfer money on behalf of other parties. If Alice transfers money to Betty to pay her for goods or services, neither Alice nor Betty is an MSB from FinCEN's point of view. But if you add an intermediary (let's call her Catherine) who takes money from Alice and gives it to Betty, and does that sort of thing commerically, then Catherine is an MSB and subject to regulation (because if Catherine wanted, and didn't have anyone watching, it'd be easy for her to hide questionable money in the cloud of transfers which she manages).
Still stupid, unnecessary snooping.
legendary
Activity: 960
Merit: 1028
Spurn wild goose chases. Seek that which endures.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
FinCEN requirements, by my understanding, are concerned primarily with businesses which transfer money on behalf of other parties. If Alice transfers money to Betty to pay her for goods or services, neither Alice nor Betty is an MSB from FinCEN's point of view. But if you add an intermediary (let's call her Catherine) who takes money from Alice and gives it to Betty, and does that sort of thing commercially or in large volumes, then Catherine is an MSB and subject to regulation (because if Catherine wanted, and didn't have anyone watching, it'd be easy for her to hide questionable money in the cloud of transfers which she manages).

This LLC of Mark's is a separate entity from Mt. Gox, and is also a separate entity from all of Mt. Gox's users, right? So it's a third party which is, in large volumes, transferring money between Mt. Gox and its customers on their behalf. Thus, it's an MSB and subject to regulation.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 501
Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong
Remember, the US govt has a way of blowing things out of proportion. Usuaully when they files things in court they make them sound far more out of line than they really are.

I'm sure that mtgox had legal counsel present when signing anything setting up a bank account, and that's how they were specifically advised. I'm not sure why its the way they did it, but I'm sure they had a reason.

Nevermind what was signed, or what paperwork etc...the point is Mt Gox had a US company setup (http://www.mutumsigillum.com/) which from their website appears to be claiming to offer hosting services etc...when infact probably 100% of their business is transferring money to Mt gox....

That is madness that you think you can do that (in the USA)...

Mutum Sigillum and it's subsidiary Kalyhost has been around longer than Mark has owned MtGox.  Hosting was previously their primary business.

Wow, really? You certainly could never tell.

Unfortunately it seems they aren't much better at the exchange business than they were the ghosting business.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
Remember, the US govt has a way of blowing things out of proportion. Usuaully when they files things in court they make them sound far more out of line than they really are.

I'm sure that mtgox had legal counsel present when signing anything setting up a bank account, and that's how they were specifically advised. I'm not sure why its the way they did it, but I'm sure they had a reason.

Nevermind what was signed, or what paperwork etc...the point is Mt Gox had a US company setup (http://www.mutumsigillum.com/) which from their website appears to be claiming to offer hosting services etc...when infact probably 100% of their business is transferring money to Mt gox....

That is madness that you think you can do that (in the USA)...

Mutum Sigillum and it's subsidiary Kalyhost has been around longer than Mark has owned MtGox.  Hosting was previously their primary business.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
I'm sure that mtgox had legal counsel present when signing anything setting up a bank account, and that's how they were specifically advised. I'm not sure why its the way they did it, but I'm sure they had a reason.
Riiiight... I'm sure they did. Look at the history of MTGox, and ask yourself if Mark has the forethought to have had legal counsel there.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
Remember, the US govt has a way of blowing things out of proportion. Usuaully when they files things in court they make them sound far more out of line than they really are.

I'm sure that mtgox had legal counsel present when signing anything setting up a bank account, and that's how they were specifically advised. I'm not sure why its the way they did it, but I'm sure they had a reason.

Nevermind what was signed, or what paperwork etc...the point is Mt Gox had a US company setup (http://www.mutumsigillum.com/) which from their website appears to be claiming to offer hosting services etc...when infact probably 100% of their business is transferring money to Mt gox....

That is madness that you think you can do that (in the USA)...
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 501
Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong
I can't believe how stupid Mt Gox could be...

Opening up bank accounts and businesses in the US for the sole purpose of transferring money in and out...it's madness that they didn't think that wouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully they didn't leave too much funds in their US bank/Dwolla account when it was seized.  It would be interesting who takes the hit for this missing money...customers who were in the transfer process I guess.

I had always assumed they were fully based on Japan...why on earth did they decide to setup in the US too?  Greed I guess as they wanted to get US customers without forcing US customers to do wire transfers...

If I was Mark and I had actually signed those papers in the US about not being a money transmitter...I'd be shitting myself no joke.

Remember, the US govt has a way of blowing things out of proportion. Usuaully when they files things in court they make them sound far more out of line than they really are.

I'm sure that mtgox had legal counsel present when signing anything setting up a bank account, and that's how they were specifically advised. I'm not sure why its the way they did it, but I'm sure they had a reason.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
I can't believe how stupid Mt Gox could be...

Opening up bank accounts and businesses in the US for the sole purpose of transferring money in and out...it's madness that they didn't think that wouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully they didn't leave too much funds in their US bank/Dwolla account when it was seized.  It would be interesting who takes the hit for this missing money...customers who were in the transfer process I guess.

I had always assumed they were fully based on Japan...why on earth did they decide to setup in the US too?  Greed I guess as they wanted to get US customers without forcing US customers to do wire transfers...

If I was Mark and I had actually signed those papers in the US about not being a money transmitter...I'd be shitting myself no joke.

Mark really showed his naivety prior to the Coinlab deal when he repeated slapped down remarks that going in the US would be a hornets nest (turns out he was already sneaking in the backdoor too).
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
The real panic sells haven't even started.

Not gonna happen. If their USD accounts get frozen, nobody wants to hold USD. Expect buy-ins and transfer to other exchanges instead.

People keep saying this. I don't know about that. Bank runs happen for a reason. Most people have not picked up on the possible ramifications of this yet. But many understand what happens to the price of bitcoin it something serious happens to Gox.

Man, I had just recently been going over my fears about this... but I thought it was a ways away.

The price on other exchanges will drop as people transfer their bitcoins that they've just bought on Mt. Gox over to the other exchanges and then sell them there for dollars.


Do you realise that just one bank account in the USA has been closed. An account that was used to service Dwolla customers.

MtGox banks with a Japanese bank and that's where the wire transfers come from so all your USD is in Japan and not the US.



I'm with you on that. I'm not saying a run IS going to occur, but that if a run on Mt Gox does occur, where people are buying bitcoins with their dollars and then transferring them out to their personal wallets, people are saying that the price there will go higher, which it would, but then if those people try to get back into dollars elsewhere, it would drop the price on those exchanges.
legendary
Activity: 2097
Merit: 1070
The real panic sells haven't even started.

Not gonna happen. If their USD accounts get frozen, nobody wants to hold USD. Expect buy-ins and transfer to other exchanges instead.

People keep saying this. I don't know about that. Bank runs happen for a reason. Most people have not picked up on the possible ramifications of this yet. But many understand what happens to the price of bitcoin it something serious happens to Gox.

Man, I had just recently been going over my fears about this... but I thought it was a ways away.

The price on other exchanges will drop as people transfer their bitcoins that they've just bought on Mt. Gox over to the other exchanges and then sell them there for dollars.


Do you realise that just one bank account in the USA has been closed. An account that was used to service Dwolla customers.

MtGox banks with a Japanese bank and that's where the wire transfers come from so all your USD is in Japan and not the US.

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
I have a bank account setup specifically for sending and receiving money from my paypal account.  I use my paypal account to buy and sell stuff online all the time and I send money back and forth from paypal to my bank account.  I also transfer money from that bank account to my other bank accounts.  Does that mean I am a money transmitter? 

No, but Paypal is.

They setup a bank account to use with their dwolla account.

They set up a company to handle their money transfers in the US. That company then opened a bank account, and answered that they were not a money transmitter. It doesn't get clearer than that.

Play by the rules, or don't. This half shit is what gets people in trouble.
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