I'm surprised by how many ppl still think FinCEN is targeting MtGox.
Now MtGox is just a first case subjected to MSB requirement.
BTC is now considered like any real CURRENCY. Meaning you cant be an exchange without MSB license.
Ever need to exchange to foreign currency? you have to go to one of licensed MSB for that.
This is a lesson for any BTC start-ups that exchange BTC for USD
Topic: Mt. Gox is an unlicensed money exchanger dealing in "crypto-currency." - page 5. (Read 9345 times)
May 15, 2013, 01:43:55 PM
May 15, 2013, 01:43:35 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.
Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.
May 15, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?
May 15, 2013, 01:40:12 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?
Read for yourself : http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html if LTC falls into virtual currency.
I wouldnt bet on its any difference .
May 15, 2013, 01:39:01 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?
No.
They didn't mention BTC, but they described cryptocurrencies.
May 15, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Would this be considered a work around then? BTC > LTC > USD?
May 15, 2013, 01:36:20 PM
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Agreed.
But can we please wait some 30 more hours before that happens? Please? I got, uh, some business to do before then.
May 15, 2013, 01:35:55 PM
Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.
Have you thought that logic through? If that was the standard then YOU would need a MSB registration as would every single one of Dwolla customers.
I'm no business => no money transfer business rule appyled.
Wow.... ignorance at its best.
May 15, 2013, 01:33:35 PM
How does Gox need a US license to transfer money when they are in Japan.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
They need an American license when doing business with Americans in America.
So in prosecuting MtGox for not having a money changing license, is there a legal precedent being set here that Bitcoin fits the government's definition of "money" ?
Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.
huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
May 15, 2013, 01:33:18 PM
This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
May 15, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.
Have you thought that logic through? If that was the standard then YOU would need a MSB registration as would every single one of Dwolla customers.
I'm no business => no money transfer business rule appyled.
Actually FinCEN doesn't care if you are a "business" or not. Luckily that isn't why they had their account frozen.
May 15, 2013, 01:28:28 PM
Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.
Have you thought that logic through? If that was the standard then YOU would need a MSB registration as would every single one of Dwolla customers.
May 15, 2013, 01:24:02 PM
Sending USD to Dwolla and receiving USD from Dwolla is considered as money transfer.
Have you thought that logic through? If that was the standard then YOU would need a MSB registration as would every single one of Dwolla customers.
May 15, 2013, 01:21:49 PM
How does Gox need a US license to transfer money when they are in Japan.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
How does anybody need a license to transfer money period. At this point you basically can't do business without transferring money.
They need an American license when doing business with Americans in America.
So in prosecuting MtGox for not having a money changing license, is there a legal precedent being set here that Bitcoin fits the government's definition of "money" ?
May 15, 2013, 01:20:50 PM
Yeah, how dares he provide a service used by thousands, while not knowing every single laws in a country in which he wasn't born, nor living in.
'Murica!
'Murica!
Or the laws pertaining to his type of business in a country where he opened a bank account and conducts substantial volumes of transactions?
May 15, 2013, 01:19:35 PM
Sarcasm aside - moving the money through a US Wells Fargo account registered to himself, seriously?
Where do you see that? The account is in the name of the LLC however last time I checked fictional legal entities (corporations and limited liability companies) don't have physical form and thus can't sign their own name so any corporate account will have real humans which are given (usually by corporate resolution) permission to sign in the name of the company. No bank in the US will allow you to open an account in the name of a company, trust, or foundation with at least one "real person" signatory on the account.
I see - I read it wrong. Editing. Thanks
May 15, 2013, 01:18:34 PM
How expensive are the US money service licences anyway, surely Mt.Gox could of afforded them, as one of the largest exchanges out there, right?
Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure if you operate in the US as a whole, you'd need a MSB license from every single state (unless the particular state doesn't regulate it). The logistical, legal, and straight-up cash requirements are probably upward of $5m and probably in excess of $300k annually after all the lawyer and accountant fees... just to do business in the US.Glad I only wanted to operate in the UK then. That does sound logistically complex and expensive as you said.
May 15, 2013, 01:17:25 PM
Sarcasm aside - moving the money through a US Wells Fargo account registered to himself, seriously?
Where do you see that? The account is in the name of the LLC however last time I checked fictional legal entities (corporations and limited liability companies) don't have physical form and thus can't sign their own name so any corporate account will have real humans which are given (usually by corporate resolution) permission to sign in the name of the company. No bank in the US will allow you to open an account in the name of a company, trust, or foundation with at least one "real person" signatory on the account.
May 15, 2013, 01:16:53 PM
Seems convenient that mtgox is down atm - no transfering of btc out or selling. Other exchanges are going down.
Trading's working for now.
BitStamp's up.
May 15, 2013, 01:16:28 PM
Yeah, how dares he provide a service used by thousands, while not knowing every single laws in a country in which he wasn't born, nor living in.
'Murica!
'Murica!
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