Topic: Mt. Gox is an unlicensed money exchanger dealing in "crypto-currency." - page 4. (Read 9345 times)
May 15, 2013, 03:05:01 PM
Is finCen guidance a law / regulation or guidance? curious
May 15, 2013, 03:04:19 PM
Yes, an interesting phenomenon is there are a lot of people invested in Bitcoin whose position is incongruent with their opinion on the effect of government intervention on bitcoin price.
For instance, people say "Government intervention/regulation/opposition will drive bitcoin price way down!" while simultaneously owning bitcoins and expecting them to appreciate.
It is absolutely 100% guaranteed that governments and large corporations will go after Bitcoin in whatever ways they can. Did anyone honestly not know this when they first invested? It's exactly what you signed up for. This is going to keep happening, over and over and over again.
So, if you think that "government intervention/regulation drives prices of goods/commodities/services/etc DOWN," i.e. you are incredibly stupid and can't take even a second to review history, then SELL ALL OF YOUR COINS NOW because your position is incongruent with your opinion on how markets work.
Last time I checked, drugs cost more than they did before the War on Drugs and torrents downloads are still wildly popular. Mixing analogies is even more fun than mixing speed and cocaine (purchased with Litecoins on Atlantis) while watching your illegal HD download of "Crank"
For instance, people say "Government intervention/regulation/opposition will drive bitcoin price way down!" while simultaneously owning bitcoins and expecting them to appreciate.
It is absolutely 100% guaranteed that governments and large corporations will go after Bitcoin in whatever ways they can. Did anyone honestly not know this when they first invested? It's exactly what you signed up for. This is going to keep happening, over and over and over again.
So, if you think that "government intervention/regulation drives prices of goods/commodities/services/etc DOWN," i.e. you are incredibly stupid and can't take even a second to review history, then SELL ALL OF YOUR COINS NOW because your position is incongruent with your opinion on how markets work.
Last time I checked, drugs cost more than they did before the War on Drugs and torrents downloads are still wildly popular. Mixing analogies is even more fun than mixing speed and cocaine (purchased with Litecoins on Atlantis) while watching your illegal HD download of "Crank"
May 15, 2013, 02:43:14 PM
I simply don't get it. If the biggest exchange falls, smaller exchages will become even easier targets.
This. DHS isnt going to stop at Gox.
May 15, 2013, 02:41:42 PM
Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
MtGox grew so big because noone else provided a better service. How is that great for Bitcoin if MtGox dies? I simply don't get it. If the biggest exchange falls, smaller exchages will become even easier targets.
Gox is a company that was attacked by ruthless bureaucrats. I feel truly sorry for people at Gox and wish they find a way out of the situation.
May 15, 2013, 02:37:34 PM
Expect buy-ins and transfer to other exchanges instead.
This is what I am going to do, of course, I am going to immediately sell when I get my BTC to the other exchange.
May 15, 2013, 02:33:20 PM
Well, I just moved the BTCs out of MtGox. Will see how this is going for the next days.
I wonder how much BTC gox is holding now vs prior of the lockdown of dwolla.
Let's hope they are not doing fractional reserve.
May 15, 2013, 02:33:02 PM
The fact that Gox could overlook this requirement is inexcusable. Most everyone else was doing their due diligence to ensure that they were meeting regulatory requirements even before the FinCEN guidance. Now it leaves me wondering what other details they may have overlooked or not considered. Perhaps they are not even operating legally in Japan and if that is the case, a seizure of their servers will most definitely happen eventually. What assurance do we have right now that they are operating legitimately? Personally, I would not feel safe keeping anything of value in their servers right now. Time to jump the Gox ship as far as I'm concerned.
No idea about the US, but there are more than 90,000 pages of relevant BaFin regulation in my country. Expect MagicalTux to read all that crap? We all probably violate regulations when taking a leak the wrong way. This is the whole point, tyranny through complexity. Whatever you do, you violate the law or regulation. So it's completely to the discretion of the so called authorities to seize your property or worse.
So, yeah. MagicalTux probably overlooked a couple of thousand additional regulations and laws.
May 15, 2013, 02:31:08 PM
Well, I just moved the BTCs out of MtGox. Will see how this is going for the next days.
I wonder how much BTC gox is holding now vs prior of the lockdown of dwolla.
May 15, 2013, 02:28:07 PM
Well, I just moved the BTCs out of MtGox. Will see how this is going for the next days.
May 15, 2013, 02:16:35 PM
The fact that Gox could overlook this requirement is inexcusable. Most everyone else was doing their due diligence to ensure that they were meeting regulatory requirements even before the FinCEN guidance. Now it leaves me wondering what other details they may have overlooked or not considered. Perhaps they are not even operating legally in Japan and if that is the case, a seizure of their servers will most definitely happen eventually. What assurance do we have right now that they are operating legitimately? Personally, I would not feel safe keeping anything of value in their servers right now. Time to jump the Gox ship as far as I'm concerned.
May 15, 2013, 02:11:40 PM
This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
Agree 100%. Right now I'm a bear but the day Gox dies I am that much closer to becoming a bull.
You can bet if MtGOX goes bankrupted. Bitcoin price will tank..... for a while and continue so until there is an exchange that can replace MtGox.
You all say just use other exchanges and ditch MtGox. The reality is NONE of other exchanges has been tested in terms of volume, availability and security. I kept seeing other small exchanges getting hacked left and right. Its always easy to say than done.
May 15, 2013, 02:02:56 PM
huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?
There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS
The reality is that MtGox user policy already exceeds FinCEN standards, so getting registered wont be a problem. Compliance would only have to be proven at this point.
What does that have anything to do with the fine? Sure they can get license, but they will be fined for this.
May 15, 2013, 01:59:32 PM
huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?
There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS
The reality is that MtGox user policy already exceeds FinCEN standards, so getting registered wont be a problem. Compliance would only have to be proven at this point.
May 15, 2013, 01:49:48 PM
This is great news. I don't know what everyone's worried about.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
In order for bitcoin to succeed, Gox has to go.
Everyone's whining "Well if something happens to Gox, price will crash!"
Sure, in the short term, twitchy fingers can cause flash price movements when things happen to Gox.
But Gox has been partially responsible for many of the major negative price events, including this one. They are truly incompetent. They STILL have a woefully inadequate trading engine. They STILL routinely experience lag and DDOS. They allow trading even when there's 20 minutes of lag time, something no "big boy" exchange would ever consider. And now their Dwolla capabilities are neutered because Karpeles fucked up when he was filling out a form.
Gox has to go.
I hope the US and Japanese authorities shut down Gox completely. The small exchanges will learn their lesson, and they (along with OTC) will rise and so will the volume vacuum. Then, and only then, can Bitcoin reach its true potential.
The alternative is Gox getting its act together. Does anyone still think that's going to happen? Lol.
Get your FUD straight, trolls. Gox dying a slow, painful, miserable death = GREAT FOR BITCOIN.
Agree 100%. Right now I'm a bear but the day Gox dies I am that much closer to becoming a bull.
May 15, 2013, 01:49:43 PM
On a side note I start thinking Jed McCaleb was right with his Ripple protocol idea.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.
I doubt Ripple would DARE to touch anything subjected to MSB.
They have to be just a payment network. Selling and buying any currency, checks and money orders will be prohibited. They will come to this soon once they're working thro legal matters.
May 15, 2013, 01:49:31 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.
Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.
There is no games in US that i know exchanges USD for virtal currency. They SELL vouchers and virtual goods.
Show me one please.
Also ALL the games have TOS that prohibits ANY trading of virtual currency in game for fiat.
Never played Diablo 3 huh? And 3rd party buying of game currency is very big market as-well.
May 15, 2013, 01:48:42 PM
Kind of having a difficult time twisting this into something so positive..... no, I don't see it.
Banks, with or without agency/court actions, are the weak link. Wasn't Bitfloor's bank account shut down directly by Capital One (no court order)? And they were registered with FINCEN.
This same thing happened after UIGEA. Create a legally controversial / high-risk situation for banks (who don't like servicing MSBs in the first place, let alone those who are perceived to have the eyes of federal agencies on them), and watch what happens. Many may become fence-sitters, waiting for the situation to play out and leaving the market to shady high-margin payment processors.
In such a case, money in/money out is much slower and higher risk. People want liquidity. If prospective buyers perceive inability to easily move fiat <--> bitcoin, that's a huge threat to growth. And it's a longterm threat until the US government makes it exceedingly clear that it will not target fiat <--> bitcoin operators and their banks.
Banks, with or without agency/court actions, are the weak link. Wasn't Bitfloor's bank account shut down directly by Capital One (no court order)? And they were registered with FINCEN.
This same thing happened after UIGEA. Create a legally controversial / high-risk situation for banks (who don't like servicing MSBs in the first place, let alone those who are perceived to have the eyes of federal agencies on them), and watch what happens. Many may become fence-sitters, waiting for the situation to play out and leaving the market to shady high-margin payment processors.
In such a case, money in/money out is much slower and higher risk. People want liquidity. If prospective buyers perceive inability to easily move fiat <--> bitcoin, that's a huge threat to growth. And it's a longterm threat until the US government makes it exceedingly clear that it will not target fiat <--> bitcoin operators and their banks.
May 15, 2013, 01:47:34 PM
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thank you. This is the first thing I thought when I read the warrant.
When Gox signed up for those accounts things were completely different.
Another thing to note, games like World of Warcraft, League, Cash Shop MMOs. Are technically money transmitters too, as they exchange USD for virtual currency. As of the FinCEN ruling they are in gox's position technically. I doubt anyone of them signed up as money transmitters.
There is no games in US that i know exchanges USD for virtal currency. They SELL vouchers and virtual goods.
Show me one please.
Also ALL the games have TOS that prohibits ANY trading of virtual currency in game for fiat.
May 15, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
On a side note I start thinking Jed McCaleb was right with his Ripple protocol idea.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.
To fight censorship and seizures while still keeping decent liquidity we'd be better off with a lot of local smaller exchanges all taking part in a shared order book.
May 15, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
huh?.....
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
Thats so wrong
Lets me BOLD THIS CLEARLY FOR EVERYONE:
FINCEN now considers SELLING AND BUYING BTC FROM AND TO USD is money transmitting and requires to have MSB. Its CLEARLY stated in MARCH. But no you all are so busy with the price hike!
And having a MSB isn't a big deal. CampBX was able to get their shit in order. What's Gox excuse?
There is no excuse.... Gox will pay a hefty fine. Thats all come down to it. Whats more is that Coinlab will have a good case too. $75 mill is alot bigger than the fine from DHS
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