Mt.Gox SCAM? $38million disappeared. Large sums affected. - page 12.

disclaimer201

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Quote from: gollum on February 07, 2014, 12:35:40 AM

The rats are leaving the sinking bitcoin ship & the unreliable MtGox...
After all bitcoin is just a ponzi scheme, you profit as long as there are greater fools who buy your coins at a higher dollar-price.

From an idealist point of view a coin should be free and instead the coin should gain it's value as an IOU for the delivery of goods or services, for example gold.

Wrong.. Bitcoin has nothing to do with Ponzis whatsoever. Read up on Ponzis and don't stop at the wikipedia headline. MtGox however could be much more similar to what you are talking about if accusations would prove to be true. Still wouldn't count as Ponzi though. But if they took traders' deposits to pay out withdrawals or traded on their own account (as a bank was doing in the mid 90s, true story - see the movie rogue trader with Ewan McGregor) and artifically helped to push up the bitcoin price, yeah it's close to a Ponzi.

None of this has to do with Bitcoin as such though. There are now lots of other big exchanges and if Gox should go away, Bitcoin will continue to prosper.

tvbcof

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 07, 2014, 12:41:49 AM

Has anyone thought about maybe Mark K is simply taking a vacation? I hear he's been trying to visit this pretty beach for some time now.

Da Da Dum Dum Dum - Another One Bites The Dust

Water ~~skiing, surf~~ boarding, oh boy what fun!

Domich

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Sent with MtGox btc, none came, in blockchain can not see them, it took 9:00 that might be?

Used a translator Sad

daserpent1

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New press release from gox https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140207.html

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Has anyone thought about maybe Mark K is simply taking a vacation? I hear he's been trying to visit this pretty beach for some time now.

Da Da Dum Dum Dum - Another One Bites The Dust

gollum

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In Hashrate We Trust!

The rats are leaving the sinking bitcoin ship & the unreliable MtGox...
After all bitcoin is just a ponzi scheme, you profit as long as there are greater fools who buy your coins at a higher dollar-price.

From an idealist point of view a coin should be free and instead the coin should gain it's value as an IOU for the delivery of goods or services, for example gold.

disclaimer201

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Quote from: cypherdoc on February 06, 2014, 01:43:37 AM

Quote from: Nathonas on February 06, 2014, 01:34:57 AM

Quote from: Jeezy911 on February 06, 2014, 01:26:13 AM

Everything is looking so scammish lately, even projects that seem so legit. Cryptsy, scharmbeck, now gox. Seriously this kind of shit will kill crypto.

That's a little bit pessimistic. Most alt coins are pretty much scam land already. Crypsty hasn't scammed people to my knowledge, just a lot of problems with that website (remember when you could withdraw 10 btc or whatever that you didn't even have?). Gox never scammed people, their website just has some technical problems sometimes.

yes, Karpeles has never stolen from anyone.

in fact, he's covered ppl's losses from his own funds when he was responsible for destroyed coins from his coding errors. he's always fixed the problems and security has been impeccable since 2011.

he'll get this one fixed too.

Don't forget tens of thousands of coins held hostage from the bitcoinica debacle and even resisting to make them available to a court appointed liquidator? I still hope Gox will be sued for this by the liquidators and big investors' funds. In my view Karpeles is a crook.

tvbcof

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 07, 2014, 12:02:00 AM

BTC now $759 in Mt Gox, and $736 in Bitstamp....

I'd expect a massive dump if/when Mt. Gox finally starts delivering BTC.

I'll bet that a lot of people already had the money spent in their minds. When Mt. Lox locked it up, I'll bet that a great many of them suddenly realized how at-risk and 'virtual' their winnings actually are and decided to cash out some when they got a chance. They'll do so in a panic.

(ya, ya...belongs on speculation...I know...)

bryant.coleman

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BTC now $759 in Mt Gox, and $736 in Bitstamp....

Alvara80

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Well my .8 ish BTC withdrawal has been pending for over an hour for me now.

It's amazing how many incompetent programmers there are in the world. Wink

I've worked with enough of them.

nmtrader100

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People generally assume that there is fraud afoot because no one can believe that they can possibly be as incompetent as they are.

By the way, its not just large withdrawals. I tried to withdraw 1 BTC today, going on 12 hours now and it still has not gone through. I don't think any withdrawals at all are happening. You would think they would stop withdrawals until they figure it out, or make an announcement, but alas, read the first sentence above.

kkaspar

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banned but not broken

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 06, 2014, 02:27:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

MtGox does not have "issues" sending the money. They just don't have the money. End of story.

Believe it or not, but there are people out there, who find information channels, like this forum, too complex to comprehend. There are people out there who are used to getting their information from the evening news, and if some of them lose their path and wonder to the world of bitcoin, then they will get their information from places like bitcoin.org. Places that are still recommending MtGox as the first choice of exchanges.. There is no clear central information network about the integrity of different exchanges.
And if you are saying "to hell with those people, they are stupid and deserve it", then you are saying to hell with bitcoin. Because these kind of people are still the majority of society, and these people would be the future of bitcoin if bitcoin has a future.
Don't be an elitist snoob with the fact that you get your information by more complex methods. That will scare away those who you see as inferior, and then they don't want to play bitcoin with you anymore..

donate2me

newbie

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I'm looking for answers as to why KNC, coin terra, butterfly labs, hash fast , etc don't actually sell anything. They just take thousands of dollars from people trusting they will get a money making machine. I'm sorry but I don't buy into this. And now that mt gox is being revealed as a Ponzi scheme, it just seem very suspicious. Someone is making a grip of money, which means that thousands of people have to lose money! Good luck to all!

AndersAA

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Why would anyone have 0.00000001BTC at MtGox? You can't withdraw so the only point would be to trade and speculate - but why leave anything you care about there when you are done trading! When do people learn to keep their own money in their own wallets?

My bet at the moment would be technical glitches worsened by more people trying to withdraw though - if MtGox was going to run they probably would've done so a while ago.

tvbcof

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Quote from: medialab101 on February 06, 2014, 07:01:18 PM

However, this story did give me pause... I'm pretty sure this was Gox, I've seen these sorts of transactions go through in the past month. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbiu/how_i_stole_roughly_100_btc_from_an_exchange_and/

ROTFL! I bet it was Gox. What a bunch of goobs.

I had estimated that by this time Mt. Gox would have hired some competent engineers, especially considering all the problems they've suffered in the past. Bzzzt. Thankfully I drew all my funding to zero some months ago since by that time it looked like my estimates were in error. And, of course, for Americans they are largely useless to use for almost anything resembling and exchange or a reliable and forthright business partner.

medialab101

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Quote from: CompNsci on February 06, 2014, 06:55:54 PM

Quote from: medialab101 on February 06, 2014, 06:45:16 PM

I've been tracking several threads on this and the overall feeling seems to be 'unfathomable incompetence' rather than 'straight up Ponzi scam.'

Yes, while it likely is hard to properly sort the transactions and which outputs to use and then having to wait for acceptance on the chain before using the change, it can be done in a proper multi-threaded way. Not properly testing software in such broad use on a test network with good stress testing is a bit ridiculous if it wasn't done. OTOH, race conditions in multi-threaded programs are some of the hardest to debug.

However, this story did give me pause... I'm pretty sure this was Gox, I've seen these sorts of transactions go through in the past month. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbiu/how_i_stole_roughly_100_btc_from_an_exchange_and/

CompNsci

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Quote from: medialab101 on February 06, 2014, 06:45:16 PM

I've been tracking several threads on this and the overall feeling seems to be 'unfathomable incompetence' rather than 'straight up Ponzi scam.'

Yes, while it likely is hard to properly sort the transactions and which outputs to use and then having to wait for acceptance on the chain before using the change, it can be done in a proper multi-threaded way. Not properly testing software in such broad use on a test network with good stress testing is a bit ridiculous if it wasn't done. OTOH, race conditions in multi-threaded programs are some of the hardest to debug.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on February 06, 2014, 02:27:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

MtGox does not have "issues" sending the money. They just don't have the money. End of story.

I, too, want to quote the best post on this thread, sans resizing the epic pic.

aesma

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fly or die

Quote from: Jeezy911 on February 06, 2014, 01:50:05 AM

Banks are the enemy right? Imagine if you walked into a bank and they said "sorry no withdraws our system is down until who knows when". And then it started happening at a lot of banks, and certain banks would just vanish after you deposited your money would you still have faith in the banking system? Its a big deal.

Well if you use MtGox you're still using banks, bitcoin has not much to do with that.

medialab101

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Quote from: CompNsci on February 06, 2014, 06:33:14 PM

Quote from: keithers on February 06, 2014, 06:22:38 PM

So you are really buying the fact that it is a technical glitch that it is only affecting the "larger" withdrawals?

As I posted previously, it appears to affect both small and larger withdrawals. Though larger withdrawals, which have to draw inputs from a larger number of other transactions might have a greater probability of using some outputs which have already been used.

The comment on the article I linked to just above
(Comment #27 on http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/04/major-bitcoin-exchange-not-executing-withdrawals-now-owes-clients-38m-in-disappeared-money/ ) has a pretty good discussion of what is likely happening.

A very frustrating and annoying situation due to incompetence, but I suspect not malice.

I've been tracking several threads on this and the overall feeling seems to be 'unfathomable incompetence' rather than 'straight up Ponzi scam.'

Topic: Mt.Gox SCAM? $38million disappeared. Large sums affected. - page 12. (Read 38183 times)