MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 288.

posormo

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Quote from: cedivad on August 31, 2013, 03:22:22 AM

Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 03:15:21 AM

MtGox is operating fully within all regulations in Japan, where they are located and registered.

Can i ask for some proof of this? Because i've never heard of this, but it could be my fault.

Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 03:15:21 AM

We do not know who the owner(s) of Bitstamp is/are, or where their physical office(s) (if any) are located. We only have an address to a maildrop in London and a bank account in Slovenia.

We do know who the owner is. Google will help you. He also held a speech at the London Bitcoin last year.

If they were not operating within the rules of Japan they would be shut down pretty dam quick. There is heavy legislation there for AML and such. As many people have said. One of the main problems is everyone wants to deposit there money there because its the highest offer on the table. But the downside of this is you have to wait in line to get your money out.

cedivad

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Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 03:15:21 AM

MtGox is operating fully within all regulations in Japan, where they are located and registered.

Can i ask for some proof of this? Because i've never heard of this, but it could be my fault.

Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 03:15:21 AM

We do not know who the owner(s) of Bitstamp is/are, or where their physical office(s) (if any) are located. We only have an address to a maildrop in London and a bank account in Slovenia.

We do know who the owner is. Google will help you. He also held a speech at the London Bitcoin last year.

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Quote from: cedivad on August 31, 2013, 02:47:49 AM

Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 02:44:38 AM

They do this without the proper licencing, authorization and insurances in place, which of course is illegal.

Where are mtgox documents about this?
They both operate in the dark.

MtGox is operating fully within all regulations in Japan, where they are located and registered. MtGox does not issue any kind of e-currency, and would be operating legally if they moved to (most of) Europe as well. MtGox are well lit. They even have a known owner and a physical address in Tokyo. We do not know who the owner(s) of Bitstamp is/are, or where their physical office(s) (if any) are located. We only have an address to a maildrop in London and a bank account in Slovenia.

cedivad

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I'm sorry sturle, but i can't agree with you anymore. When you write pro-gox, and about the withdrawns that in your opinion are going well, i can accept that, since that personally i have no proof of the opposite.

But i can't really agree on bitstamp being less secure than mtgox, at the moment.

Quote from: sturle on August 31, 2013, 02:44:38 AM

They do this without the proper licencing, authorization and insurances in place, which of course is illegal.

Where are mtgox documents about this?
They both operate in the dark.

sturle

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Quote from: cedivad on August 31, 2013, 02:12:17 AM

Bitstamp is certanly an interesting exchange to operate with.
I heard from you that mtgox on their side seems to have a 30k SEPA withdrawn limit, if you go over, you wait more than 2 weeks. That's very unfortunate, for one that wants to exploit that spread.

Would you really deposit as much as 30k EUR on Bitstamp? Bitstamp issues USD on Ripple, which is an e-currency. They do this without the proper licencing, authorization and insurances in place, which of course is illegal. Even more illegal than transferring money between two bank accounts without a money transmitter license. If you deposit 30k EUR there, I hope you can afford to lose 30k EUR if Bitstamp gets closed before you are able to buy BTC and move the BTC to MtGox. It is a gamble, and not my kind of gamble. I suspect this the main reason why the price difference rarely goes below 8%, and why the whales still play on MtGox.

cedivad

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Bitstamp is certanly an interesting exchange to operate with.
I heard from you that mtgox on their side seems to have a 30k SEPA withdrawn limit, if you go over, you wait more than 2 weeks. That's very unfortunate, for one that wants to exploit that spread.

sturle

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Quote from: cedivad on August 30, 2013, 04:31:11 PM

Quote from: int on August 30, 2013, 04:11:33 PM

If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

Also, why can't the same business do million or so of arbitrage per day? This spread is so stable that it has to be exploited... By someone that wants to risk on mtgox.

It is being exploited, but carefully. There aren't any other trustworthy exchanges with enough BTC in their order books for it to be interesting. Would you deposit millions of USD on an exchange operating in violation of the law? Or on an exchange operating from the USSA? I do my arbitrage by buying directly from people at lowest of Bitstamp bid / Bitcurex ask, and only keep small amounts on the exchanges.

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Quote from: johnyj on August 30, 2013, 04:41:26 PM

Quote from: int on August 30, 2013, 04:11:33 PM

If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

It is possible that MTGOX does not have enough JPY either, since most of their deposit came in as USD. They have to purchase JPY with their USD in order to satisfy JPY withdraw, but their USD were frozen by the banks

Only two accounts in the USSA containing a small part of their USD got frozen. It only amounts to a part of their profit this year. There are no reports of delayed JPY withdrawals indicating lack of funds. Currency exchange takes place in their Japanese bank. MtGox takes a 2.5% currency exchange fee, and I suspect this contributes a lot to their profit on low volume days when cross currency trades constitutes as much as a third of their total volume. Selling volume in JPY indicates that at least 200000 USD worth of JPY is withdrawn on an average day, sometimes more.

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on August 30, 2013, 05:22:39 PM

On mtgox, currency is auto-enchanges to match orders in different currencies order books to USD (well really any currency against any currency, but in this case JPY/USD).

JPY customers are ramping up their arbitrage efforts, take a look at the volume JPY over the past month.

Japanese banks are slow and difficult to deal with. And while others claim differently, I have not had any luck establishing a japanese account.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Looks like you might have to have it open 6 months before you could even use it anyway. http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthread.php?114192-Full-banking-privileges-for-foreigners-Making-transfers-having-a-Visa-debit-card

joesmoe2012

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Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

On mtgox, currency is auto-enchanges to match orders in different currencies order books to USD (well really any currency against any currency, but in this case JPY/USD).

JPY customers are ramping up their arbitrage efforts, take a look at the volume JPY over the past month.

Japanese banks are slow and difficult to deal with. And while others claim differently, I have not had any luck establishing a japanese account.

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Quote from: johnyj on August 30, 2013, 04:41:26 PM

It is possible that MTGOX does not have enough JPY either, since most of their deposit came in as USD. They have to purchase JPY with their USD in order to satisfy JPY withdraw, but their USD were frozen by the banks

MtGox has net JPY outflows as that is what they are paying rent, salaries, utility bills, taxes with. So revenue in foreign currency needs to be regularly exchanged into JPY for their own business as usual requirements. Presumably that absorbs some of their allowed transfers.

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Quote from: int on August 30, 2013, 04:11:33 PM

If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

It is possible that MTGOX does not have enough JPY either, since most of their deposit came in as USD. They have to purchase JPY with their USD in order to satisfy JPY withdraw, but their USD were frozen by the banks

Maybe exchange is a bad idea, people should really trade bitcoin for goods/services, just need more supermarket accepting bitcoin

cedivad

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Quote from: int on August 30, 2013, 04:11:33 PM

If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

Also, why can't the same business do million or so of arbitrage per day? This spread is so stable that it has to be exploited... By someone that wants to risk on mtgox.

zeroblock

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Quote from: int on August 30, 2013, 04:11:33 PM

If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

Now someone finally asks the obvious question.

int

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If domestic (JPY) withdrawal takes a day or two, while USD takes a few weeks or more, why can't someone in Japan set up a business which for a % fee will withdraw your money in JPY, exchange into USD at forex rate, and paypal/send cash by mail/or find some other way of getting the money to you?

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Quote from: sturle on August 30, 2013, 11:49:50 AM

Fortunately the problems mostly affect USD withdrawals. They brought this upon themselves, and should go kick their government's ass. Or the DHS. I'm not sure who rules who.

USD customers of Mt Gox brought this on themselves? Are you *$&%* kidding?

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Quote from: joesmoe2012 on August 30, 2013, 01:28:47 PM

I have EUR SEPA transfer pending from Aug 1st still....So SEPA is not working very well either.

Also didn't you say before that SEPA > 30K was not being processed right now?

SEPA > 30k is more than two weeks delayed, and it will usually be faster to split up, yes. Did you receive any other withdrawals the last two weeks which means you have been pushed back in the queue?

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I have EUR SEPA transfer pending from Aug 1st still....So SEPA is not working very well either.

Also didn't you say before that SEPA > 30K was not being processed right now?

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Quote from: manfred on August 30, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

How can there still be a 'queue' now, in recent times was very low volume. No action at all.

There is no queue for domestic JPY transfer.

For SEPA there has been a queue for as long as I can remember. It is shorter now than in years. MtGox are limited to 120k EUR / day.

International withdrawal had a collapse after all other popular withdrawal methods were removed. First redeemable codes (on request from US regulators), then LR (US again) and AurumExchange which carried several popular e-currencies, then OKPay, then Dwolla (the usual suspect). Thousands of SWIFT transfers of a few hundred USD each then overloaded MtGox's bank. This doesn't surprise me at all if what I read about Japanese banking in this forum is true. (And I believe it is, knowing Japanese bureaucracy.) Now MtGox are limited to 10 international withdrawals per day, and due to the investigation in the USSA (them again) they have trouble finding new deals with other large banks.

Fortunately the problems mostly affect USD withdrawals. They brought this upon themselves, and should go kick their government's ass. Or the DHS. I'm not sure who rules who.

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