MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 293.

acoindr

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Quote from: bitcoinmarketmaker on August 27, 2013, 04:53:17 PM

Quote

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

Yes, I considered editing that line out knowing someone would call me on it reasoning exactly as you did.

I left it in because Mt.Gox does still allow the exchange of BTC for fiat. That's not the part of the process that broke. Moving that fiat via certain channels is where the problem arose.

bitcoinmarketmaker

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Quote

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

sturle

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Quote from: acoindr on August 27, 2013, 04:13:16 PM

Quote from: Radacoin on August 27, 2013, 02:57:10 AM

Quote from: acoindr on August 26, 2013, 03:12:11 PM

If you requested a withdrawal anytime after July 1st you can cancel that request and sell your BTC elsewhere at a premium probably.

No, because if you cancel your withdrawal request you still have only USD or EUR in you account - and not BTC.

You'd still have to exchange USD -> BTC on MtGox before you can move it to another exchange.

Yes, that's my point. You cancel your withdrawal request and get USD/EUR back into your account. You then buy BTC and move BTC somewhere else to sell. Before it made little sense to buy an asset with falling price, but now the price is rising and it's more favorable to own BTC.

If you need the fiat, and you can withdraw either JPY to a Japanese account or EUR to an account within SEPA (EU + EEA + Switzerland and Monaco), you should sell at MtGox and withdraw from there. The price is better there than on all other exchanges.

acoindr

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Quote from: Radacoin on August 27, 2013, 02:57:10 AM

Quote from: acoindr on August 26, 2013, 03:12:11 PM

If you requested a withdrawal anytime after July 1st you can cancel that request and sell your BTC elsewhere at a premium probably.

No, because if you cancel your withdrawal request you still have only USD or EUR in you account - and not BTC.

You'd still have to exchange USD -> BTC on MtGox before you can move it to another exchange.

Yes, that's my point. You cancel your withdrawal request and get USD/EUR back into your account. You then buy BTC and move BTC somewhere else to sell. Before it made little sense to buy an asset with falling price, but now the price is rising and it's more favorable to own BTC.

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

Serpens66

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Quote from: advanced on August 27, 2013, 03:50:43 PM

I'm in the exact same situation (waiting for international transfer from 2nd July).
I'm not sure how to 'cancel' the operation on MtGox, I'll try right away and keep you posted.

Thanks!

--->

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on August 26, 2013, 06:46:23 AM

Quote from: Serpens66 on August 26, 2013, 06:29:22 AM

One question:
How to cancel a withdrawal on Mtgox?

Chat with or email support.

@sturle:
I'm excited to hear about your withdrawal and if you will get ur money in less than one week.

advanced

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Woodwallets.io

I'm in the exact same situation (waiting for international transfer from 2nd July).
I'm not sure how to 'cancel' the operation on MtGox, I'll try right away and keep you posted.

Thanks!

Quote from: sturle on August 27, 2013, 03:13:17 PM

Quote from: FreeTrade on August 27, 2013, 02:43:04 PM

Waiting since 2nd July 2013 06:54:11 for USD withdrawal to European Bank.

Support have not been able to provide a date when they expected to be able to process the withdrawal.

You should cancel it and withdraw EUR via SEPA instead. You will have your money in less than a week.

See:

Quote from: sturle on August 27, 2013, 10:03:23 AM

A short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals:

JPY domestic is next day
- one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
- one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
EUR via SEPA is less than one week
- maximum per user is one withdrawal per 20 days
- very large withdrawals can be delayed up tp two weeks
International withdrawals are very slow.
- Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
- Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
- It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.

Any counterexamples?

(There are NO known counterexamples.)

FreeTrade

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Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll try to get set up for the SEPA withdrawal.

sturle

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Quote from: FreeTrade on August 27, 2013, 02:43:04 PM

Waiting since 2nd July 2013 06:54:11 for USD withdrawal to European Bank.

Support have not been able to provide a date when they expected to be able to process the withdrawal.

You should cancel it and withdraw EUR via SEPA instead. You will have your money in less than a week.

See:

Quote from: sturle on August 27, 2013, 10:03:23 AM

A short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals:

JPY domestic is next day
- one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
- one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
EUR via SEPA is less than one week
- maximum per user is one withdrawal per 20 days
- very large withdrawals can be delayed up tp two weeks
International withdrawals are very slow.
- Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
- Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
- It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.

Any counterexamples?

(There are NO known counterexamples.)

sturle

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Quote from: Nagle on August 27, 2013, 02:33:49 PM

Quote from: ardana123 on August 27, 2013, 12:36:50 PM

Gox isn't really issuing SEPA nor wire transfers, they just give them now and then to random people while they stack up their profits, just like a Ponzi scam artist does.

Many people on here have been taking the position that it's OK if Mt. Gox won't pay out USD, as long as they will pay out Bitcoins. Of course, there's a 10% or so spread loss when you do that. But beyond that, when does Mt. Gox run out of Bitcoins? There's no reason anybody should put Bitcoins into Mt. Gox at this point; you're on the wrong side of the price spread and can't get money out if you sell. There are about 30,000 Bitcoins for sale on Mt. Gox today, down from previous weeks, with about twice that on the buy side. At some point, those Bitcoins will be gone, or priced out of the market.

Yesterday alone people withdrew more than 100 million JPY from MtGox. Presumably to do arbitrage. You can't do arbitrage without depositing BTC. I deposited 80 BTC myself recently, bought from other exchanges, to do arbitrage, and will deposit 80 more as soon as my withdrawal arrives.

Btw, there are about 53k BTC in open asks at MtGox. It has been below that many times before. E.g. in April this year.

sturle

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Quote from: Resetif on August 27, 2013, 11:14:07 AM

who ever received money in August?

A long list of people, just read backwards in this thread and others.

sturle

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Quote from: ardana123 on August 27, 2013, 12:36:50 PM

Quote from: Resetif on August 27, 2013, 11:14:07 AM

who ever received money in August?

Gox isn't really issuing SEPA nor wire transfers, they just give them now and then to random people while they stack up their profits, just like a ponzi scam artist does.

Why do you keep spreading those lies? You can't find ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of someone not getting a SEPA transfer in time according to the rules I just gave. How much are you making on arbitrage by discouraging people to withdraw fiat?

FreeTrade

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Waiting since 2nd July 2013 06:54:11 for USD withdrawal to European Bank.

Support have not been able to provide a date when they expected to be able to process the withdrawal.

cedivad

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No, not until everyone is sure that gox won't pay.
Until when they keep paying a SEPA each 2 and every YEN transfer people will keep having trust in it.

Btw, who need to cashout if the price skyrockets? (what is happening?)

Nagle

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Quote from: ardana123 on August 27, 2013, 12:36:50 PM

Gox isn't really issuing SEPA nor wire transfers, they just give them now and then to random people while they stack up their profits, just like a Ponzi scam artist does.

That may well be the case.

Many people on here have been taking the position that it's OK if Mt. Gox won't pay out USD, as long as they will pay out Bitcoins. Of course, there's a 10% or so spread loss when you do that. But beyond that, when does Mt. Gox run out of Bitcoins? There's no reason anybody should put Bitcoins into Mt. Gox at this point; you're on the wrong side of the price spread and can't get money out if you sell. There are about 30,000 Bitcoins for sale on Mt. Gox today, down from previous weeks, with about twice that on the buy side. At some point, those Bitcoins will be gone, or priced out of the market.

ardana123

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Quote from: Resetif on August 27, 2013, 11:14:07 AM

who ever received money in August?

a lucky few
Gox isn't really issuing SEPA nor wire transfers, they just give them now and then to random people while they stack up their profits, just like a ponzi scam artist does.

Resetif

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who ever received money in August?

sturle

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Quote from: mrnejc on August 27, 2013, 10:36:59 AM

Then can someone explain how come they allow us to set withdrawal limits to 10k daily & 50k monthly - monthly limit is actually never reachable ...

Not at the current limit. The queue has shortened over the last couple of months, and I hope the ~20 days between withdrawals will be reduced as well. You could apply for trusted status, of course, and withdraw 100k in one go.

mrnejc

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Quote from: sturle on August 27, 2013, 10:31:44 AM

Quote from: mrnejc on August 27, 2013, 10:29:33 AM

Where the hell did you find this? First time I hear of it ... Huh

Scroll back a few posts.

Oh I see, not an official statement or it would be posted to their website, right? Undecided

Then can someone explain how come they allow us to set withdrawal limits to 10k daily & 50k monthly - monthly limit is actually never reachable ...

sturle

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Quote from: mrnejc on August 27, 2013, 10:29:33 AM

Quote from: sturle on August 27, 2013, 10:03:23 AM

EUR via SEPA is less than one week
- maximum per user is one withdrawal per 20 days

Where the hell did you find this? First time I hear of it ... Huh

Scroll back a few posts.

sturle

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Quote from: ibox on August 27, 2013, 10:17:30 AM

But you didn't answer my question : Why did you spend so much time to defend something you didn't even try yourself?

I did: I think it is important to get the facts right. Many people have lost a lot of money due to the FUD people spread about withdrawals. I could have joined in and spread more FUD to make even more on arbitrage, but that would go against my principles. Have you never defended something you didn't try yourself?

Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 293. (Read 908613 times)