why for is the reason....https://twitter.com/MagicalTux
Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 50. (Read 908727 times)
i think that all of us that are keep an eye on MtGox case already know that but just in case i post it :
http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-us-bankruptcy-filing-coinlab-support/
All together is better i think
let's see what will get out of this...
http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-us-bankruptcy-filing-coinlab-support/
All together is better i think
let's see what will get out of this...
I wasn't aware that Sunlot was actually going to Japan. I personally find Japanese lawyers very closed minded when it comes to their work though, even if it's clear you know more about something than they do. (perhaps thats all lawyers actually haha). They may prove successful in the end, who knows but I don't think they will have an easy time persuading him.
Whether or not they'll go to Japan, their henchman Edelson or someone else of his firm will. I don't really get why these bids try to go through the usa legal system when its Japan which has the final say. It takes time to get anywhere of course & by that time the liquidation on the Japan side may have progressed beyond anyone's ability to stop them. In fact, the liquidator has been given the provisional go-ahead.
Because there will be a creditors' meeting in Japan on 23 July. At that time, Sunlot and their cronies hope to leave the impression on Kobayashi that the majority of creditors back their "settlement" and bid. The US "settlement" is for nothing other than for its publicity value and the impression it leaves on Kobayashi, who unfortunately seems to be hopelessly poorly informed about the wishes of creditors (and amongst other things, about the workings of mass email). So is the press bombardment Sunlot did a while ago - only to impress Kobayashi, confirmed by John Betts (prospective "New MtGox" CEO).I see no benefit at all for any US creditor to be part of the class represented by Jay Edelson, who seems only to act according to his own best interests (his wallet). Filing claims - you can do so yourself without paying the commission that Jay wants. By being part of the class, you actually relinquish the right to sue certain individuals, and the only thing you get in return is the obligation to pay Edelson.
source.
Note I haven't used the term "to join the class suit" since joining is not a matter of choice - opting out is the only choice you have. And I wholeheartedly recommend all US creditors here to exercise that right!
I wasn't aware that Sunlot was actually going to Japan. I personally find Japanese lawyers very closed minded when it comes to their work though, even if it's clear you know more about something than they do. (perhaps thats all lawyers actually haha). They may prove successful in the end, who knows but I don't think they will have an easy time persuading him.
I don't really get why these bids try to go through the usa legal system when its Japan which has the final say. It takes time to get anywhere of course & by that time the liquidation on the Japan side may have progressed beyond anyone's ability to stop them. In fact, the liquidator has been given the provisional go-ahead.
Because there will be a creditors' meeting in Japan on 23 July. At that time, Sunlot and their cronies hope to leave the impression on Kobayashi that the majority of creditors back their "settlement" and bid. The US "settlement" is for nothing other than for its publicity value and the impression it leaves on Kobayashi, who unfortunately seems to be hopelessly poorly informed about the wishes of creditors (and amongst other things, about the workings of mass email). So is the press bombardment Sunlot did a while ago - only to impress Kobayashi, confirmed by John Betts (prospective "New MtGox" CEO).I see no benefit at all for any US creditor to be part of the class represented by Jay Edelson, who seems only to act according to his own best interests (his wallet). Filing claims - you can do so yourself without paying the commission that Jay wants. By being part of the class, you actually relinquish the right to sue certain individuals, and the only thing you get in return is the obligation to pay Edelson.
source.
Note I haven't used the term "to join the class suit" since joining is not a matter of choice - opting out is the only choice you have. And I wholeheartedly recommend all US creditors here to exercise that right!
someone back their money from MtGox ?
for a reason i can't undestand but i imagine the aricle had to be published one day later....
so here it is http://www.coindesk.com/can-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors/
with 2 June 2014 Publish date....
Let's see what will get finally....
so here it is http://www.coindesk.com/can-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors/
with 2 June 2014 Publish date....
Let's see what will get finally....
I don't really get why these bids try to go through the usa legal system when its Japan which has the final say. It takes time to get anywhere of course & by that time the liquidation on the Japan side may have progressed beyond anyone's ability to stop them. In fact, the liquidator has been given the provisional go-ahead.
Woohoo, more rumours!
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.coindesk.com%2Fcan-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors%2F&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.coindesk.com%2Fcan-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors%2F&gs_l=serp.3...2470.2470.0.2780.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....1...1c..45.psy-ab..1.0.0.QAckfpTr78w&pbx=1
Was on Coindesk, now 404.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.coindesk.com%2Fcan-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors%2F&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.coindesk.com%2Fcan-chinese-exchange-okcoin-rescue-mt-gox-creditors%2F&gs_l=serp.3...2470.2470.0.2780.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....1...1c..45.psy-ab..1.0.0.QAckfpTr78w&pbx=1
Was on Coindesk, now 404.
Quote
Can Chinese Exchange OKCoin Rescue Mt Gox Creditors?
One name that crops up whenever recovery plans for Mt Gox are mentioned is one of China’s largest bitcoin exchanges, OKCoin.
It’s probably for a good reason. On an as-yet-unofficial level, the company is known to be interested in backing its own team in Japan to put Gox back on its feet and take some steps to making creditors whole.
CEO Star Xu told CoinDesk during a recent interview in Beijing that the idea had been suggested to him by some Japan-based friends, and that he personally thought resurrecting the once-dominant exchange and attempting to return its customers’ funds was important to the entire bitcoin community.
He also added it would be a lengthy process that could take years.
OKCoin says it is not considering a direct takeover of Mt Gox, but rather it wants to leverage its experience by licensing exchange and security technology under a new team that would possibly feature some OKCoin personnel.
The BitOcean-OKCoin ATMThe BitOcean-OKCoin ATM
Also involved is another Chinese company, BitOcean, which is already partnering with OKCoin to produce the first home-grown bitcoin ATMs for both the domestic and international markets.
The plan
OKCoin/BitOcean’s new plan would feature an immediate audit of Mt. Gox’s bitcoin and fiat currency reserves, a debt-equity swap in a new business entity for all creditors and the ability for users to begin withdrawing funds from day one.
The plan, according to people involved, was designed from the beginning to favor redress for Mt Gox’s customers. Some saw up to six- and seven-figure fiat-value balances simply vanish when Gox suddenly ceased all operations in February.
CEO Mark Karpeles claimed Mt Gox lost the majority of its bitcoins in hacks related to the ‘transaction malleability‘ issue in bitcoin’s protocol, though bitcoin core developers and other researchers have claimed this is not credible. It also does not explain what happened to the millions in dollar, euro and Japanese yen balances also stored there.
Lack of reliable and independent information regarding Mt Gox’s exact financial history and current situation is hampering attempts to find a solution attractive to creditors, as well as debate over whether such a solution is even possible.
The only funds known to exist at this stage are the 200,000 bitcoins the exchange announced in a press release that were found “in an old format wallet.”
Rescue vs liquidation
Rival rescue group Sunlot Holdings, which runs the SaveGox.com website, is trying to prevent the planned liquidation that would see Mt. Gox shut down completely and its assets sold.
Even that process could take years, with any remaining bitcoins treated as assets and sold at market rates before eventually being returned to former customers at some stage in the future.
At this stage any decision regarding liquidation or rescue plans rests with the bankruptcy trustee appointed by the Tokyo District Court, Nobuaki Kobayashi. Kobayashi has not yet indicated whether he favors a resurrection of Mt Gox at all.
He posted an updated notice about bankruptcy proceedings on the exhange’s homepage on 21st May, stating that a creditors’ meeting “for reporting on the status of the assets” would take place in Tokyo on 23rd July; the deadline for filing bankruptcy claims is 28th November; and a final decision will be made on 25th February 2015.
Court rejects CoinLab’s block
CoinLab, a former Mt Gox business partner still engaged in active lawsuits with the company, last week attempted to use US bankruptcy courts to block or delay Sunlot’s plan.
It said the bid headed by Wall Street trading veteran John Betts and backed by new Bitcoin Foundation Board member Brock Pierce lacked the experience necessary to perform its proposed investigation.
A Seattle court rejected CoinLab’s submission, however, saying Sunlot’s proposal did not have special status and there may indeed be other groups with their own plans.
Fiery online meeting
A Google hangout streamed live to YouTube on 27th April tried to clear the air by allowing the various interests to state their case. The meeting at times became heated as various parties questioned whether others had creditors’ best interests at heart.
US Attorney Daniel Kelman, who divides his time these days between Taiwan and Tokyo, has been exploring creditor-friendly solutions to the Mt. Gox problem for some time and strongly favors a debt-equity swap solution.
Daniel Kelman
Kelman is not representing OKCoin in an official capacity but spoke on behalf of its plan during the hangout, after speaking to associated people both in China and Japan.
He did reveal some basic details of the OKCoin group’s plan, though, which would probably involve at least a $1 million injection of capital and the selling of shares in the new entity to raise more capital.
Chinese interest
He mentioned that OKCoin’s interest in forming a recovery plan came from Chinese expats living in Tokyo and CEO Xu, all of whom had lost substantial amounts of bitcoin when Gox collapsed.
The company had not known a rehabilitation was even possible before Sunlot’s original plan was revealed, he added. Xu then realized his expertise at operating a stable bitcoin exchange, plus its existing technology and security standards, could be beneficial to an alternative campaign.
Best of both bitcoin worlds?
Some participants in the hangout were enthusiastic about the thought of a ‘Chinese-Western’ joint venture for the good of bitcoin, saying the Mandarin and English-speaking economies (mainly the US) have been bitcoin’s prime movers so far. Kelman said:
“I agree completely. Bitcoin is a worldwide phenomenon, and very much a phenomenon of the English speaking and Chinese speaking worlds … And it would be great to see an exchange that could merge those two. I think that would make it very successful also.”
Creditor caution
Sunlot came under fire on bitcoin-related internet forums like bitcointalk and reddit for various reasons, but raised eyebrows over an initial plan that appeared to use existing Gox funds to conduct its investigation and pay management fees.
The funds belonged to creditors and should not be touched by outsiders before a rescue plan succeeded, former customers complained.
Sunlot then revised its plan to include a greater injection of its own investors’ equity and offered creditors a 16.5% equity stake in a revived entity.
Other objections
Sunlot has been criticized both for being an ‘outsider’, a company with no previous bitcoin exchange experience, but also for having ‘insider’ connections due to two of its investors’ involvement in prior Mt Gox acquisition and joint venture attempts, one of which was over a year ago.
CEO John Betts took the opportunity in the meeting to defend his team’s credibility and warn critics against making claims without evidence, saying:
“Making libelous claims about intentions about people through misinformation and leaked information, rumors and hearsay is not constructive to this.”
He said his team’s offer of 1 BTC to buy Mt. Gox was twofold: it evoked the disgrace of previous finance industry collapses such as rogue trader Nick Leeson’s Barings Bank (sold to ING for £1), and prevented significant sums of money from flowing to Mark Karpeles, the owner.
savegox
The small sum should not be taken as a lack of Sunlot’s commitment, he said.
SaveGox/Sunlot also stated on its extensive FAQ page that it has reached out to OKCoin’s team to express an interest in co-operation, though the tone of discussion on the hangout suggests they still have some issues to iron out.
The team claims to have the backing of at least 66% of Mt Gox creditors after US class action lawyer Jay Edelson (representing the creditors) agreed to its revised plan as part of his clients’ settlement.
Olivier Janssens and mtgoxrecovery.com
Olivier Janssens, the entrepreneur and bitcoin early adopter who lost $5m worth of bitcoins in the Gox collapse, set up the mtgoxrecovery.com site. He admits his campaign is not actually a plan, but instead seeks justice for customers and Mt Gox management, by supporting whoever is best equipped to deliver that result.
Olivier Janssens
That justice would involve not only a reasonable chance of Mt Gox’s existing bitcoins being returned to customers as bitcoins, but also Mark Karpeles facing criminal or civil action for his part in the whole affair.
Online chat logs reveal Janssens is furious at Karpeles over his actions in the weeks surrounding Mt Gox’s collapse.
He said he would favor liquidation if it would return some funds to investors, rather than entrusting Mt Gox’s fate to a new and unknown company. Skeptical of Sunlot’s plan and the motives behind it, he said Sunlot had operated behind everyone’s back, only revealing its plans after they were leaked.
Bitcoiners bitten before
Janssens explained to Betts that trust levels in the bitcoin community were extremely low after numerous thefts and scams, and that users were naturally suspicious of any newcomers unless they could prove their level of commitment and be prepared to back it up with legally binding contracts.
He added that, although it was not his intention to do so, he would be prepared to contribute the $5m he lost in the Mt. Gox closure simply to find out what happened.
One name that crops up whenever recovery plans for Mt Gox are mentioned is one of China’s largest bitcoin exchanges, OKCoin.
It’s probably for a good reason. On an as-yet-unofficial level, the company is known to be interested in backing its own team in Japan to put Gox back on its feet and take some steps to making creditors whole.
CEO Star Xu told CoinDesk during a recent interview in Beijing that the idea had been suggested to him by some Japan-based friends, and that he personally thought resurrecting the once-dominant exchange and attempting to return its customers’ funds was important to the entire bitcoin community.
He also added it would be a lengthy process that could take years.
OKCoin says it is not considering a direct takeover of Mt Gox, but rather it wants to leverage its experience by licensing exchange and security technology under a new team that would possibly feature some OKCoin personnel.
The BitOcean-OKCoin ATMThe BitOcean-OKCoin ATM
Also involved is another Chinese company, BitOcean, which is already partnering with OKCoin to produce the first home-grown bitcoin ATMs for both the domestic and international markets.
The plan
OKCoin/BitOcean’s new plan would feature an immediate audit of Mt. Gox’s bitcoin and fiat currency reserves, a debt-equity swap in a new business entity for all creditors and the ability for users to begin withdrawing funds from day one.
The plan, according to people involved, was designed from the beginning to favor redress for Mt Gox’s customers. Some saw up to six- and seven-figure fiat-value balances simply vanish when Gox suddenly ceased all operations in February.
CEO Mark Karpeles claimed Mt Gox lost the majority of its bitcoins in hacks related to the ‘transaction malleability‘ issue in bitcoin’s protocol, though bitcoin core developers and other researchers have claimed this is not credible. It also does not explain what happened to the millions in dollar, euro and Japanese yen balances also stored there.
Lack of reliable and independent information regarding Mt Gox’s exact financial history and current situation is hampering attempts to find a solution attractive to creditors, as well as debate over whether such a solution is even possible.
The only funds known to exist at this stage are the 200,000 bitcoins the exchange announced in a press release that were found “in an old format wallet.”
Rescue vs liquidation
Rival rescue group Sunlot Holdings, which runs the SaveGox.com website, is trying to prevent the planned liquidation that would see Mt. Gox shut down completely and its assets sold.
Even that process could take years, with any remaining bitcoins treated as assets and sold at market rates before eventually being returned to former customers at some stage in the future.
At this stage any decision regarding liquidation or rescue plans rests with the bankruptcy trustee appointed by the Tokyo District Court, Nobuaki Kobayashi. Kobayashi has not yet indicated whether he favors a resurrection of Mt Gox at all.
He posted an updated notice about bankruptcy proceedings on the exhange’s homepage on 21st May, stating that a creditors’ meeting “for reporting on the status of the assets” would take place in Tokyo on 23rd July; the deadline for filing bankruptcy claims is 28th November; and a final decision will be made on 25th February 2015.
Court rejects CoinLab’s block
CoinLab, a former Mt Gox business partner still engaged in active lawsuits with the company, last week attempted to use US bankruptcy courts to block or delay Sunlot’s plan.
It said the bid headed by Wall Street trading veteran John Betts and backed by new Bitcoin Foundation Board member Brock Pierce lacked the experience necessary to perform its proposed investigation.
A Seattle court rejected CoinLab’s submission, however, saying Sunlot’s proposal did not have special status and there may indeed be other groups with their own plans.
Fiery online meeting
A Google hangout streamed live to YouTube on 27th April tried to clear the air by allowing the various interests to state their case. The meeting at times became heated as various parties questioned whether others had creditors’ best interests at heart.
US Attorney Daniel Kelman, who divides his time these days between Taiwan and Tokyo, has been exploring creditor-friendly solutions to the Mt. Gox problem for some time and strongly favors a debt-equity swap solution.
Daniel Kelman
Kelman is not representing OKCoin in an official capacity but spoke on behalf of its plan during the hangout, after speaking to associated people both in China and Japan.
He did reveal some basic details of the OKCoin group’s plan, though, which would probably involve at least a $1 million injection of capital and the selling of shares in the new entity to raise more capital.
Chinese interest
He mentioned that OKCoin’s interest in forming a recovery plan came from Chinese expats living in Tokyo and CEO Xu, all of whom had lost substantial amounts of bitcoin when Gox collapsed.
The company had not known a rehabilitation was even possible before Sunlot’s original plan was revealed, he added. Xu then realized his expertise at operating a stable bitcoin exchange, plus its existing technology and security standards, could be beneficial to an alternative campaign.
Best of both bitcoin worlds?
Some participants in the hangout were enthusiastic about the thought of a ‘Chinese-Western’ joint venture for the good of bitcoin, saying the Mandarin and English-speaking economies (mainly the US) have been bitcoin’s prime movers so far. Kelman said:
“I agree completely. Bitcoin is a worldwide phenomenon, and very much a phenomenon of the English speaking and Chinese speaking worlds … And it would be great to see an exchange that could merge those two. I think that would make it very successful also.”
Creditor caution
Sunlot came under fire on bitcoin-related internet forums like bitcointalk and reddit for various reasons, but raised eyebrows over an initial plan that appeared to use existing Gox funds to conduct its investigation and pay management fees.
The funds belonged to creditors and should not be touched by outsiders before a rescue plan succeeded, former customers complained.
Sunlot then revised its plan to include a greater injection of its own investors’ equity and offered creditors a 16.5% equity stake in a revived entity.
Other objections
Sunlot has been criticized both for being an ‘outsider’, a company with no previous bitcoin exchange experience, but also for having ‘insider’ connections due to two of its investors’ involvement in prior Mt Gox acquisition and joint venture attempts, one of which was over a year ago.
CEO John Betts took the opportunity in the meeting to defend his team’s credibility and warn critics against making claims without evidence, saying:
“Making libelous claims about intentions about people through misinformation and leaked information, rumors and hearsay is not constructive to this.”
He said his team’s offer of 1 BTC to buy Mt. Gox was twofold: it evoked the disgrace of previous finance industry collapses such as rogue trader Nick Leeson’s Barings Bank (sold to ING for £1), and prevented significant sums of money from flowing to Mark Karpeles, the owner.
savegox
The small sum should not be taken as a lack of Sunlot’s commitment, he said.
SaveGox/Sunlot also stated on its extensive FAQ page that it has reached out to OKCoin’s team to express an interest in co-operation, though the tone of discussion on the hangout suggests they still have some issues to iron out.
The team claims to have the backing of at least 66% of Mt Gox creditors after US class action lawyer Jay Edelson (representing the creditors) agreed to its revised plan as part of his clients’ settlement.
Olivier Janssens and mtgoxrecovery.com
Olivier Janssens, the entrepreneur and bitcoin early adopter who lost $5m worth of bitcoins in the Gox collapse, set up the mtgoxrecovery.com site. He admits his campaign is not actually a plan, but instead seeks justice for customers and Mt Gox management, by supporting whoever is best equipped to deliver that result.
Olivier Janssens
That justice would involve not only a reasonable chance of Mt Gox’s existing bitcoins being returned to customers as bitcoins, but also Mark Karpeles facing criminal or civil action for his part in the whole affair.
Online chat logs reveal Janssens is furious at Karpeles over his actions in the weeks surrounding Mt Gox’s collapse.
He said he would favor liquidation if it would return some funds to investors, rather than entrusting Mt Gox’s fate to a new and unknown company. Skeptical of Sunlot’s plan and the motives behind it, he said Sunlot had operated behind everyone’s back, only revealing its plans after they were leaked.
Bitcoiners bitten before
Janssens explained to Betts that trust levels in the bitcoin community were extremely low after numerous thefts and scams, and that users were naturally suspicious of any newcomers unless they could prove their level of commitment and be prepared to back it up with legally binding contracts.
He added that, although it was not his intention to do so, he would be prepared to contribute the $5m he lost in the Mt. Gox closure simply to find out what happened.
I don't understand what's going on with these "trustee"-stuff. I got the mail, too. Can someone explain in some steps what I have to do, to get my BTC (or a part of it) back?
I am under the impression we have to wait for forms still. I hope someone on this forum can clear this up, since the notifications are worded with the intent to fuck us over...or so it seems.
has anybody else noticed withdraw issues? I tried withdrawing my BTC like a month ago and still nothing!
i am in same position.... but i have a strange feeling that MtGox will open again somehow...
by now, i am totally lost as to what we have to do in order to have any hope of recovering any % of what was lost :/
who is up for a bet of opening again MtGox or not ?
I think it's related to the recent news around the selling of the trademark 'bitcoin' and domain names Tibane is selling as one package. There isn't a list available with domain names in that package, but i think gox.com is in it, so as bitcoins.com.
Today I noticed that www.gox.com isn't redirecting anymore to www.mtgox.com. I last checked last wednesday, so somewhere between 21th and 27th someone deleted it.
also can't find registrar information..... such as for example on mtgox.com that up to now the owner seems to be Mark.....
http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-revival-plan-hit-objection-creditor-coinlab/
some news on the case of Mt.Gox....
One is sure... we have missing BTC ( OUR BTC ) and everybody is playing with us .... nothing clear....
someone or many are getting paid to have all this is my sence.... and of course are getting paid with our stolen Bitcoins.....
as i said is just my feeling.....
some news on the case of Mt.Gox....
One is sure... we have missing BTC ( OUR BTC ) and everybody is playing with us .... nothing clear....
someone or many are getting paid to have all this is my sence.... and of course are getting paid with our stolen Bitcoins.....
as i said is just my feeling.....
Today I noticed that www.gox.com isn't redirecting anymore to www.mtgox.com. I last checked last wednesday, so somewhere between 21th and 27th someone deleted it.
does anyone have any news on Savegox.com case?
did they got approval from us court of the plan to save MtGox.com?
and there it is: http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-settlement-proposal-granted-key-preliminary-approval/
I asked the Sunlot (non-)PR person, on the Savegox.com thread, for a link to that court ruling. No answer yet. Perhaps "preliminary approval" means that they handed over the proposal at the court's front desk, and got a numbered ticket for it.did they got approval from us court of the plan to save MtGox.com?
and there it is: http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-settlement-proposal-granted-key-preliminary-approval/
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