Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] - page 53. (Read 908727 times)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-happened-at-gox-on-2013-05-13-btc-xfer-diagrams-590138 What happened at Gox on 2013-05-13 - (BTC Xfer Diagrams)
According to the TOS in reddit (last page) it is really so.
That's really important. Because 1) it affects the order of creditors, and 2) it affects who goes to jail. But someone has to make that argument in court. Hopefully the people behind "http://blog.mtgoxrecovery.com/" are doing what they say they're doing. So far, they seem to be the only creditors who actually made a filing with the Tokyo District Court.
According to the TOS in reddit (last page) it is really so.
Was it really so that according to the TOS of Mt.Gox, the instant I deposit my BTC to them, it becomes their "assets" that they "owe" me, instead of "customer funds" that they must "safeguard" for me?
That's a very important question. Is anyone making that argument in the Tokyo District Court?
From reddit:
Seems that the key players have sucked the bankrupt company dry and aim to profit more from the money that is now in the other, personal, pocket, even after subtracting the court sentence.
Quote
If they traded with customer money they violated the ToS and it could be fraud. "MT. GOX'S OBLIGATIONS
...
6. it will hold all monetary sums and all Bitcoins deposited by each Member in its Account, in that Member's name as registered in their Account details, and on such Member's behalf.
LIABILITY
[...] Nothing in these terms excludes or limits the liability of either party for fraud, death or personal injury caused by its negligence, breach of terms implied by operation of law, or any other liability which may not by law be limited or excluded. " Anybody can post the full ToS?
[–]chris45215 2pistettä 1kuukausi sitten
Excellent! That quote seems to imply that customer funds are still the property of customers, which is quite important in the case of bankruptcy. If you think of it like a company that manages storage units, the customer items in each unit remain their property, and creditors have no right to claim those stored items if the company goes bankrupt. Also, it should be noted that Mt Gox could be a customer of itself and thus it's TOS would apply to itself. However, it would depend on the company to enforce the TOS or press charges in case of violation, which it obviously won't do.
[–]andypagonthemove 2pistettä 1kuukausi sitten
Maybe this is why they haven't included the BTC in their bankruptcy filing.
...
6. it will hold all monetary sums and all Bitcoins deposited by each Member in its Account, in that Member's name as registered in their Account details, and on such Member's behalf.
LIABILITY
[...] Nothing in these terms excludes or limits the liability of either party for fraud, death or personal injury caused by its negligence, breach of terms implied by operation of law, or any other liability which may not by law be limited or excluded. " Anybody can post the full ToS?
[–]chris45215 2pistettä 1kuukausi sitten
Excellent! That quote seems to imply that customer funds are still the property of customers, which is quite important in the case of bankruptcy. If you think of it like a company that manages storage units, the customer items in each unit remain their property, and creditors have no right to claim those stored items if the company goes bankrupt. Also, it should be noted that Mt Gox could be a customer of itself and thus it's TOS would apply to itself. However, it would depend on the company to enforce the TOS or press charges in case of violation, which it obviously won't do.
[–]andypagonthemove 2pistettä 1kuukausi sitten
Maybe this is why they haven't included the BTC in their bankruptcy filing.
Seems that the key players have sucked the bankrupt company dry and aim to profit more from the money that is now in the other, personal, pocket, even after subtracting the court sentence.
Was it really so that according to the TOS of Mt.Gox, the instant I deposit my BTC to them, it becomes their "assets" that they "owe" me, instead of "customer funds" that they must "safeguard" for me?
If this question is resolved in the only sane manner that it can be ("customer funds" unless EXPLICITLY otherwise stated), it also becomes clear why the contents of the safety deposit boxes are not auctioned when a bank becomes bankrupt, and your car is not sold if you were having it painted when the painting shop goes broke. Instead, you property is returned.
Anyone?
A very interesting point, I would like to know the answer too. If this question is resolved in the only sane manner that it can be ("customer funds" unless EXPLICITLY otherwise stated), it also becomes clear why the contents of the safety deposit boxes are not auctioned when a bank becomes bankrupt, and your car is not sold if you were having it painted when the painting shop goes broke. Instead, you property is returned.
Anyone?
Here ( https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140228-announcement_eng.pdf ) MtGox recognizes its assets, before the appearance 200.000BTC. This also they will have to distribute among creditors (all of us). That means they have to pay back about 60% of the deposit to us. I think it should be so. Right?
Was it really so that according to the TOS of Mt.Gox, the instant I deposit my BTC to them, it becomes their "assets" that they "owe" me, instead of "customer funds" that they must "safeguard" for me?
If this question is resolved in the only sane manner that it can be ("customer funds" unless EXPLICITLY otherwise stated), it also becomes clear why the contents of the safety deposit boxes are not auctioned when a bank becomes bankrupt, and your car is not sold if you were having it painted when the painting shop goes broke. Instead, you property is returned.
Anyone?
Yeah
Stopped using MtGox for a while now...
Well, you kinda had to, right?
Yeah i dont think the option to keep using them existed lol
It would have been a bit hard to keep using them i think. Just somehow.
I was trying to get this out for 4 months......
BTC: 9.05037000 BTC
Here ( https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140228-announcement_eng.pdf ) MtGox recognizes its assets, before the appearance 200.000BTC. This also they will have to distribute among creditors (all of us). That means they have to pay back about 60% of the deposit to us. I think it should be so. Right?
Was it really so that according to the TOS of Mt.Gox, the instant I deposit my BTC to them, it becomes their "assets" that they "owe" me, instead of "customer funds" that they must "safeguard" for me?
If this question is resolved in the only sane manner that it can be ("customer funds" unless EXPLICITLY otherwise stated), it also becomes clear why the contents of the safety deposit boxes are not auctioned when a bank becomes bankrupt, and your car is not sold if you were having it painted when the painting shop goes broke. Instead, you property is returned.
Anyone?
- the bitcoin balances are converted to fiat balances based on the last gox echange rate of 138 $/BTC
This only if the liquidators are either incredibly dumb, since that value is obviously not the real market value of that time.If they are even remotely sane they would use either the market value of a sane exchange before mtgox closed down withdrawals, or they would use current price.
In the end, everybody probably gets paid in yen.
Stopped using MtGox for a while now...
Well, you kinda had to, right?
Stopped using MtGox for a while now...
TL;DR: You need to file your claims before Nov 28, 2014.
This comes from what???
TL;DR: You need to file your claims before Nov 28, 2014.
This comes from what???
TL;DR: You need to file your claims before Nov 28, 2014.
What is TL;DR: ?
They write they will inform about a form to fill....
What is your thought?
TL;DR: You need to file your claims before Nov 28, 2014.
Yes i think we all have read the new post since yesterday...
have a look on that....
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mtgox-stolen-bitcoins-moving-into-maidsafes-ipo-582731
have a look on that....
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mtgox-stolen-bitcoins-moving-into-maidsafes-ipo-582731
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