Author

Topic: NA - page 314. (Read 893613 times)

sr. member
Activity: 880
Merit: 251
Think differently
December 30, 2014, 07:18:39 PM
I'll continue to follow the thread, but I probably won't push for radical changes like I have in the past.  I'm just going to sit back and watch for a while.

I say, keep posting when you feel enthousiasm and there is good news Smiley Keeps spirit high. You are great support, so always if you feel you have something to share, don't feel shy because of these mistakes Wink  

Fuse, everyone makes mistakes, don't forget that, and you are one of the most influential persons here at NLG, small chance that we would be talking about DIGI if you weren't here, trust me. keep up the good work! Smiley
full member
Activity: 128
Merit: 100
December 30, 2014, 07:08:30 PM
I'm getting confused, did the Criptoe team made some thinking errors?

Yes, there were errors in the code I submitted.  There are 2 that I can discern from my talks with /GJ today.  The first was the 25% limit that wasn't a 25% limit.  It was a validation check that acted like a limit on our testnet by rejecting blocks on the confirming nodes.  See /GJ's post about this, although all the a/b/c stuff totally lost me.  The second part to that line of code was that if it was added to the network now, it would have cause the chain to not sync properly on a resync.  Essentially the existing blocks higher than a 25% retarget would have been rejected.  So it is my understanding that the results that were shown with the charts were correct because they were valid with a fresh chain on our testnet.  However, they wouldn't have been valid on the main chain.  Had we worked with the existing blockchain data, we would have identified the error immediately.  My team missed it, and I sincerely apologize for it.

I take full responsibility for these errors.  I knew the code wasn't a final draft.  That is why when Rijk asked me to post the git pull, I asked him to have a few pairs of eyes on the code before we did anything.  It's also why, in light of the simulator timeline /GJ presented, I asked that we test against the simulator.  /GJ is currently working on cleaning up the DIGI code.  I have offered to reach out to the DIGI dev in the meantime.  However, /GJ is confident that he will be able to provide a streamlined DIGI solution, so I am going to stand behind that decision.

I'm going to take a step back from NLG for a little bit.  I just need to refocus on what I'm doing.  I'm not cashing out, and I'm not shutting down the pool.  I will continue to sell physical coins and try to figure out ways to make NLG better outside of the blockchain.  I just feel with the animosity over my involvement, and the movement towards finally fixing the algorithm problems, I don't need to be in the forefront for a while.  I'll continue to follow the thread, but I probably won't push for radical changes like I have in the past.  I'm just going to sit back and watch for a while.

Cheers,

Fuse

Hey Fuse, don't take it to heavily. You're one of the guys who make NLG better. Maybe if not for your/Criptoes work we didn't even had this discussion. Maybe this was required to get people "focussed" again.

Myself will keep spreading the word. Some of my friends are allmost that far to join into NLG and now it is still cheap!

So if I understand everything correctly, DIGI is off for now?

@Fuse, keep up the good job as you're doing one hell of a job!! <3

For the rest, a happy New Year and cya next year Wink
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 30, 2014, 07:08:16 PM
I'll continue to follow the thread, but I probably won't push for radical changes like I have in the past.  I'm just going to sit back and watch for a while.

I say, keep posting when you feel enthousiasm and there is good news Smiley Keeps spirit high. You are great support, so always if you feel you have something to share, don't feel shy because of these mistakes Wink  
legendary
Activity: 1023
Merit: 1000
ltex.nl
December 30, 2014, 06:59:12 PM
Wow! Here I am, practicing staying up late for New Years Eve tomorrow. I thought it would be boring, but hey, so much reading material!  Wink

On a more serious note, what is happening right now is not a bad thing. Our beloved coin is getting to a phase where it's growing up, along with it's community. This can put up some serious challenges along it's path. Let's call it puberty....

The discussions that evolve around the Algo change are intensifying and this always stirs up emotions. Sometimes, especially when discussions aren't face-to-face, things get misinterpreted or twisted. This doesn't mean, however, they are no good! We sometimes need to cross lines to define new ones.

To me, anyone involved in these discussions deserve my respect. I believe this because I haven't seen any participant that hasn't put in significant efforts in the (relatively short) past of this thread. It proves to me all opinions are defended by persons that have embraced NLG in their hearts and therefor feel they have to defend their stands.

Just a couple of posts before this one I see some very important and respected members of our community questioning or revising their position because of these discussions. I would very much like to ask everyone to take a deep breath and ask yourself why you have been giving our coin so much of your time and effort. I feel confident that once you know why, you can accept how much more easy, even when some other members try to challenge you.

To me it seems we still have a long path ahead of us and I'm ok with that. I commit myself to still be here on January first 2017! How about you?

For now, a big hug to all and see you on the other side Kiss
sr. member
Activity: 880
Merit: 251
Think differently
December 30, 2014, 06:10:35 PM
"But I'm not a coder..."
Thats okay.. You might not be able to help with the more technical aspects of Guldencoin but that is just a very small part of what we're doing here.
For instance: contact merchants, introduce your friends to Guldencoin (remember: they can get 100 free NLG! Who doesn't like free stuff!?)
Or write an article about Guldecoin. Comment on large news websites on topics related to Guldencoin. etc. etc.
Better even: think out of the box. The things I've just listed have been listed before, and although they are very very important, it's also good to have new and innovative usage and promotion of Guldencoin..



i don't know if the poster project from august is already done or not? if it's still not done then i could help with it.
i think it's a great way to advertise for nlg. https://forum.guldencoin.com/index.php?topic=392.msg2844#msg2844
someone that wants to help me with this project? (if it's not done yet)

edit: sorry the topic is in dutch, it's just traveling to some train stations in big cities and posting some posters that's all
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 30, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
I'm getting confused, did the Criptoe team made some thinking errors?

Yes, there were errors in the code I submitted.  There are 2 that I can discern from my talks with /GJ today.  The first was the 25% limit that wasn't a 25% limit.  It was a validation check that acted like a limit on our testnet by rejecting blocks on the confirming nodes.  See /GJ's post about this, although all the a/b/c stuff totally lost me.  The second part to that line of code was that if it was added to the network now, it would have cause the chain to not sync properly on a resync.  Essentially the existing blocks higher than a 25% retarget would have been rejected.  So it is my understanding that the results that were shown with the charts were correct because they were valid with a fresh chain on our testnet.  However, they wouldn't have been valid on the main chain.  Had we worked with the existing blockchain data, we would have identified the error immediately.  My team missed it, and I sincerely apologize for it.

I take full responsibility for these errors.  I knew the code wasn't a final draft.  That is why when Rijk asked me to post the git pull, I asked him to have a few pairs of eyes on the code before we did anything.  It's also why, in light of the simulator timeline /GJ presented, I asked that we test against the simulator.  /GJ is currently working on cleaning up the DIGI code.  I have offered to reach out to the DIGI dev in the meantime.  However, /GJ is confident that he will be able to provide a streamlined DIGI solution, so I am going to stand behind that decision.

I'm going to take a step back from NLG for a little bit.  I just need to refocus on what I'm doing.  I'm not cashing out, and I'm not shutting down the pool.  I will continue to sell physical coins and try to figure out ways to make NLG better outside of the blockchain.  I just feel with the animosity over my involvement, and the movement towards finally fixing the algorithm problems, I don't need to be in the forefront for a while.  I'll continue to follow the thread, but I probably won't push for radical changes like I have in the past.  I'm just going to sit back and watch for a while.

Cheers,

Fuse
member
Activity: 85
Merit: 10
December 30, 2014, 05:22:49 PM

Sending along some Guldencoins to the NLG tip jar.

Keep up the great work.   Smiley
hero member
Activity: 638
Merit: 500
December 30, 2014, 04:38:08 PM
In the new year I will post way less here on the forums and do more real life approach of merchants.

Always online and doing great (support) jobs.
Wish you good luck and succes for next year, approaching merchants is a real challenge.

My respect you have!
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
December 30, 2014, 04:06:48 PM
If testing can be done with Digishield in the simulator so soon, there where also discussions on changing parameters in DGW3 2 months ago orso that could do a lot if I am correct. If the simulator can really simulate small and big waves that soon, then take some time for good testing different parameters and blocktimes. Just my thoughts. 1 or 2 weeks more Clever, I can live with that.

You're making an excellent point here: yes we can try DGW3 with alternative settings in the simulator. We can even change formula's (not just the settings/parameters for the formula's).

I think the 2,5 minute blocktime is of big influence as well. That does probably a lot. I wish you GJ and all involved in testing lots of succes in finding out the best solution. Thanks for updating. Smiley

Quote
"But I'm not a coder..."
Thats okay.. You might not be able to help with the more technical aspects of Guldencoin but that is just a very small part of what we're doing here.
For instance: contact merchants, introduce your friends to Guldencoin (remember: they can get 100 free NLG! Who doesn't like free stuff!?)
Or write an article about Guldecoin. Comment on large news websites on topics related to Guldencoin. etc. etc.
Better even: think out of the box. The things I've just listed have been listed before, and although they are very very important, it's also good to have new and innovative usage and promotion of Guldencoin..

In the new year I will post way less here on the forums and do more real life approach of merchants.
sr. member
Activity: 246
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 04:02:13 PM
TL;DR: the change to 25% doesn't do what was expected and will only introduce chain splits.

That's an assumption or has been tested with the simulator?


Neither, it's deducted by reading the sources.

I'm getting confused, did the Criptoe team made some thinking errors?
sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 03:53:37 PM
... bla bla bla block A block B blabla ....

How would such situation be resolved in non-digi algo's?

No this isn't digi's fault. We simply shouldn't change ComputeMinWork's max adjustment from 400% to 25%. I don't think any coin ever did this, unless you have a very very extreme difficulty re-adjustment algorithm that actually could cause adjustments over 400%, in which case you want to change it upwards!
sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 03:51:41 PM
TL;DR: the change to 25% doesn't do what was expected and will only introduce chain splits.

That's an assumption or has been tested with the simulator?


Neither, it's deducted by reading the sources.
legendary
Activity: 1658
Merit: 1001
December 30, 2014, 03:50:39 PM
How changing the max adjustment to 25% would cause a chainsplit, step by step:
Say two miners (A and B) would mine a block at the same time and broadcast it to the network. Half the network gets block from A first, other half gets block from B first. The group that got block A will now perform an anti ddos check on the block from B, because B was later and therefore is considered to be a split. Lets assume that the digishield changed the difficulty over 25%. This means group A will completely ignore block B. In the meanwhile, group B has more miners and mines blocks B2 and B3; they now have the larger chain: "B>B2>B3". But since group A won't accept block B, they will never get this chain and won't resolve the split. The miners in group A won't either, they'll continue mining as if nothing ever happened. The same applies for group B: group B will never accept block A because it has > 25% difficulty change, so IF group A gets the longer chain (which would normally resolve the split), it won't be accepted by group B because group B will never accept block A.
The normal max adjustment is 400%, which will allow even the most extreme diff changes by digi or dgw3.

How would such situation be resolved in non-digi algo's?
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 30, 2014, 03:37:50 PM
TL;DR: the change to 25% doesn't do what was expected and will only introduce chain splits.

That's an assumption or has been tested with the simulator?


We're discussing it now.

-Fuse
sr. member
Activity: 246
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 03:35:05 PM
TL;DR: the change to 25% doesn't do what was expected and will only introduce chain splits.

That's an assumption or has been tested with the simulator?



sr. member
Activity: 409
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 03:21:45 PM
Hi all,

Digi with 25% max adjustment
I have been reading the changes committed by ny2cafuse (https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin/pull/7)
Sadly, the 25% filter was not actually changing the required difficulty. In fact: it would cause major and non-resolving chain-splits.

The max 25% adjustment rule is in a function that is used to detect "ddos" blocks. This is a simple and quick check to see if a block can be taken seriously, before the full checks are done, which are using a lot more resources. This protects the network from ddos attacks.

How changing the max adjustment to 25% would cause a chainsplit, step by step:
Say two miners (A and B) would mine a block at the same time and broadcast it to the network. Half the network gets block from A first, other half gets block from B first. The group that got block A will now perform an anti ddos check on the block from B, because B was later and therefore is considered to be a split. Lets assume that the digishield changed the difficulty over 25%. This means group A will completely ignore block B. In the meanwhile, group B has more miners and mines blocks B2 and B3; they now have the larger chain: "B>B2>B3". But since group A won't accept block B, they will never get this chain and won't resolve the split. The miners in group A won't either, they'll continue mining as if nothing ever happened. The same applies for group B: group B will never accept block A because it has > 25% difficulty change, so IF group A gets the longer chain (which would normally resolve the split), it won't be accepted by group B because group B will never accept block A.
The normal max adjustment is 400%, which will allow even the most extreme diff changes by digi or dgw3.

TL;DR: the change to 25% doesn't do what was expected and will only introduce chain splits.

What now?
I will now continue with the simulator, doing the items listed in the previously posted TODO list.
This will give us more insight in how the change to digi will affect the chain.
It's important that we know what we are doing before we're making these changes.
We are very close. But remember: it's done when we have a proven correct solution that won't mess up the chain and will solve our problems.

If testing can be done with Digishield in the simulator so soon, there where also discussions on changing parameters in DGW3 2 months ago orso that could do a lot if I am correct. If the simulator can really simulate small and big waves that soon, then take some time for good testing different parameters and blocktimes. Just my thoughts. 1 or 2 weeks more Clever, I can live with that.

You're making an excellent point here: yes we can try DGW3 with alternative settings in the simulator. We can even change formula's (not just the settings/parameters for the formula's).

"How can I help?"
If you're a coder then you can help out with the code, please do!
We're on github:
https://github.com/nlgcoin/guldencoin
https://github.com/GeertJohan/diffsim

Please contact me if you'd like to help with code.
We do accept pull requests.


"But I'm not a coder..."
Thats okay.. You might not be able to help with the more technical aspects of Guldencoin but that is just a very small part of what we're doing here.
For instance: contact merchants, introduce your friends to Guldencoin (remember: they can get 100 free NLG! Who doesn't like free stuff!?)
Or write an article about Guldecoin. Comment on large news websites on topics related to Guldencoin. etc. etc.
Better even: think out of the box. The things I've just listed have been listed before, and although they are very very important, it's also good to have new and innovative usage and promotion of Guldencoin..

Gulden New Year!
Lets work together towards a future where Guldencoin is widely accepted in The Netherlands and beyond!
Everything we're doing are small steps towards that goal, and as long as everyone keeps making these small steps: we'll reach that goal in 2015.

Cheers!
sr. member
Activity: 246
Merit: 250
December 30, 2014, 03:18:32 PM
Nice Dutch blog article about the Guldencoin: http://www.techgirl.nl/betalen-met-guldens-weer-mogelijk-guldencoins/
legendary
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
December 30, 2014, 02:45:11 PM
Man oh man, this is tiring. Quoting lontje: "You have no clue what you're talking about". Yeah, sure, I am totally clueless. Whatever.
Many roads lead to Rome. A coin can change into any kind of specs, there is absolutely no need for tunnelvision. POS and peace.
However, I am gonna follow the kind advice by Frais and stop getting involved in needless discussion in this thread. That will make most of you and me happy.
Good luck to you all in making a big success out of Guldencoin.

No need to leave m8, it's good to have other views in the thread... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger!! Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
HODL for life.
December 30, 2014, 12:08:22 PM
Gewoon ff een feitje, die fysieke guldencoins zijn echt heel vet! Groot, zwaar en shiny Smiley Er is nog een 2e onderweg, maar echt een aanrader, heel blij mee!

Zeker weten. Echt gaaf!
Zeker super! Op de foto zien ze er nog een beetje plastic uit, maar de werkelijkheid is ronduit geweldig. Top! Thanx for the great job!

I'll admit that the pictures don't really show their true characteristics.  They are heavy, thick, metallic coins.  Definitely something that will hold up over time.  I'm glad everyone likes them.  If for any reason there are any issues with any coins or orders, feel free to PM me or post in the following thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/criptoecom-physical-coin-thread-890637.

-Fuse
Jump to: