Gewoon ff een feitje, die fysieke guldencoins zijn echt heel vet! Groot, zwaar en shiny 
Er is nog een 2e onderweg, maar echt een aanrader, heel blij mee!
Er is nog een 2e onderweg, maar echt een aanrader, heel blij mee!Zeker weten. Echt gaaf!
Topic: NA - page 315. (Read 893613 times)
The larger waves is quite simple, will take me an hour or so to make a perfect job.
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Do you mean the simulator is almost ready for testing? Different algo's testing in GO with different parameters? I am a bit confused now what you mean.
Oh maybe you missed the announcement, that's okay.
Right now the simulator is working with small waves and DGW3 algo.
You can pick up the sources at https://github.com/GeertJohan/diffsim
So whats on the TODO:
- larger waves (5-15% change between blocks)
- jump pool (CM) simulation
- Digishield algorithm
- export simulation to excel
Yes, but how long it takes to complete for the TODO was not clear. As I understand now it can go very fast for that.
Gewoon ff een feitje, die fysieke guldencoins zijn echt heel vet! Groot, zwaar en shiny Er is nog een 2e onderweg, maar echt een aanrader, heel blij mee!
Er is nog een 2e onderweg, maar echt een aanrader, heel blij mee!Zeker weten. Echt gaaf!
Here we go again, the guy that feels the need to self-sign his every post with -Fuse, how funny. Visit your shrink to find out how much that says about your psyche.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
I don't see Terk adding any value to the coin, yet Fuse has even produced physical coins for NLG, I trust these guys will put even more services forward for NLG when the price goes up to keep adding value.
Can you tell me one coin where a mining pool operator/team cares so much about a coin?
@ Digi, have trust. Criptoe is also one good reason for Litepaid to do talks with big partners to get Guldencoin accepted with a lot of merchants at once. Hope you can see that. Hope you'll try to understand better what is going on with the reason for algo change and not get angry. Keep the peace
Edit: very open and calm reaction of you Fuse, respect. Let's go on to the positive and constructive again. Maybe it was good, it came out. Hope Digi will react positive after reading back.
Edit: very open and calm reaction of you Fuse, respect. Let's go on to the positive and constructive again. Maybe it was good, it came out. Hope Digi will react positive after reading back.
Here we go again, the guy that feels the need to self-sign his every post with -Fuse, how funny. Visit your shrink to find out how much that says about your psyche.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
What does me signing my posts have to do with anything?
If you read properly... you would have seen that Terk mentioned he was in talks with the devs, and that others had msgd him too.
As far as my commitment to NLG... yes, I want to make money. We all do. My team makes no money off my pool, though. It's my pool. Hell, I just make enough to cover my server fees every month. I run a pool for NLG because I was asked to by a member of the team because they wanted an honest, reliable pool op. The main reason I'm in NLG though is because I honestly think it's the one coin that's doing it right. I've been around long enough to see that. So I'm sorry that I got behind it early on, and I hold a lot of coin. Get over it.
I didn't threaten. I made a statement that I would be out, as well as my team, if some idiotic decision was made that would change the landscape as a whole. You don't obviously don't understand how blockchains work. It's apparent in your previous statements about what mining is for. So I'm sorry, but I wouldn't take your advice for anything. You have no clue what you're talking about.
-FUSE
Here we go again, the guy that feels the need to self-sign his every post with -Fuse, how funny. Visit your shrink to find out how much that says about your psyche.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
Yes, I did read this thread. I never read the Guldencoin-team mentioning they spoke to Terk, only you mentioned contacting him a few times. But you and your many mates are also running a miningpool. You have no commitment to the Guldencoin other than making as much money as possible. You confirmed by going kaboomm and threatening to dump NLG if it would change to something that could not be mined as you like it to be mined. So I am sorry, but I am not putting my trust on you for the NLG future success.
Wow, come on. Don't take it to this level. Please abandon this topic if this is all you have to say.. unbelievable.
As far as the excel output goes, why not just fmt.Println each block to a text file? We can parse the data from there. It doesn't need to be pretty as long as we can read the data.
I agree with this. Parsing data to different formats could be done by others in their language of choice. No need to do this in Go, which currently only one person in the community knows how to write.
Just write all the data to a text file (even csv could be read by excel) and let other help in getting things going.
I don't mind if we can get a confirmation on Digi working properly in the simulator in two weeks, or a custom algo in a month. What I don't want is to wait until 2016/2017 to have a fix.
I do not understand why you waste money and energy mining coins, when there is less waste of money and energy if you would just buy coins at the low prices being offered thanks to the clevermining pool. In the end, the mining only serves getting coins in circulation. It would be nice if that could be done in the most energy and money efficient way (therefor I still am a big supporter of a total offline generation of the remaining coins and free distribution among Dutch citizens! :-)
Maybe your concern and motivation is the fear that clevermining could and would wreck the coin, but I really doubt if that is in their gamebook, as mentioned above.
Maybe your concern and motivation is the fear that clevermining could and would wreck the coin, but I really doubt if that is in their gamebook, as mentioned above.
Without the resistance of the dedicated miners against clevermining there would have been giant block gaps all the time. Clevermining is wrecking Guldencoin since August 17th, check the stats: http://nlgstats.iblogger.org/
OK... let's take this at a more conservative pace then. If the simulator is a day of work, let's push forward with testing DIGI on the simulator then. When can you have this done? Can we have data by the weekend?
As far as the excel output goes, why not just fmt.Println each block to a text file? We can parse the data from there. It doesn't need to be pretty as long as we can read the data.
-Fuse
As far as the excel output goes, why not just fmt.Println each block to a text file? We can parse the data from there. It doesn't need to be pretty as long as we can read the data.
-Fuse
If testing can be done with Digishield in the simulator so soon, there where also discussions on changing parameters in DGW3 2 months ago orso that could do a lot if I am correct. If the simulator can really simulate small and big waves that soon, then take some time for good testing different parameters and blocktimes. Just my thoughts. 1 or 2 weeks more Clever, I can live with that.
@ GJ: Do I understand really correct that the simulator is almost ready or am I missing something here?
Most miners just mine with a profitable pool, they don't care if it is clever or coinmine or hardcore or criptoe, miners generally don't care as long as the pool brings profits to them.
And again, don't judge. It's nearly impossible to profit from Guldencoin mining with these low prices. Most of the current miners are mining because they want to prevent cleverming of raping Guldencoin. Mining Guldencoin equals burning bitcoins at this moment. In my case that's more than 10 Bitcoin for the past month.
I do not understand why you waste money and energy mining coins, when there is less waste of money and energy if you would just buy coins at the low prices being offered thanks to the clevermining pool. In the end, the mining only serves getting coins in circulation. It would be nice if that could be done in the most energy and money efficient way (therefor I still am a big supporter of a total offline generation of the remaining coins and free distribution among Dutch citizens! :-)
Maybe your concern and motivation is the fear that clevermining could and would wreck the coin, but I really doubt if that is in their gamebook, as mentioned above.
Do you understand how blockchains work? It's to allow transactions to continue to happen... not to put coins into circulation. Without miners, coins don't move.
You could distribute the coins all you want, but without miners they are worthless.
-Fuse
The larger waves is quite simple, will take me an hour or so to make a perfect job.
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Do you mean the simulator is almost ready for testing? Different algo's testing in GO with different parameters? I am a bit confused now what you mean.
Oh maybe you missed the announcement, that's okay.
Right now the simulator is working with small waves and DGW3 algo.
You can pick up the sources at https://github.com/GeertJohan/diffsim
So whats on the TODO:
- larger waves (5-15% change between blocks)
- jump pool (CM) simulation
- Digishield algorithm
- export simulation to excel
I have no idea what kind of guy this "Terk" of clevermining is. Is it likely he is out to destroy NLG at all?
Did Guldencoin-team itself ever talk directly with him? I mean, probably he is just in for the money, and not on a rampage breaking down a coin.
DGW3 and Digishield are all done and being done because of Terk. Maybe he is just in because he can make money with it, and as soon as another coin moves along with better profits,
he will move on too.
Did Guldencoin-team itself ever talk directly with him? I mean, probably he is just in for the money, and not on a rampage breaking down a coin.
DGW3 and Digishield are all done and being done because of Terk. Maybe he is just in because he can make money with it, and as soon as another coin moves along with better profits,
he will move on too.
Have you followed this thread at all over the last few months?
PMs were sent. He's silent in his own thread. He's a douche at best.
My thought is he is raping the coin because he can. He may or may not drop off the coin when the profit isn't there. If he continues regardless, it would be a PR nightmare for him. There is no way he can explain using users' mining power to further his own agenda.
-Fuse
....
I never tested Digishield, but I did read the code during the switch from KGW to a new algo (which became DGW3). My impression was that Digishield is a lot similar to DGW3, but I thought DGW3 was slightly better. The reason there is somewhat consensus is based on the great testing job done by fuse, criptoe and others. So the community started voting for Digishield, and simply followed the wishes of the community.
I know creating a custom algorithm will take longer than simply implementing the existing Digishield algorithm.. So thats why Digishield is the easy choice right now.
If digishield doesn't work we expected, we can always change again later..
....
The larger waves is quite simple, will take me an hour or so to make a perfect job.
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
OK... let's take this at a more conservative pace then. If the simulator is a day of work, let's push forward with testing DIGI on the simulator then. When can you have this done? Can we have data by the weekend?
As far as the excel output goes, why not just fmt.Println each block to a text file? We can parse the data from there. It doesn't need to be pretty as long as we can read the data.
-Fuse
The larger waves is quite simple, will take me an hour or so to make a perfect job.
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Do you mean the simulator is almost ready for testing? Different algo's testing in GO with different parameters? I am a bit confused now what you mean.
quote veertje: "...But most dedicated miners have enough of what Clever does..."
How many unhappy dedicated miners are we talking about? 10, 20, 50, 500, 1000?
Most miners just mine with a profitable pool, they don't care if it is clever or coinmine or hardcore or criptoe, miners generally don't care as long as the pool brings profits to them.
edit: I would expect complaining miners to simply move over to clevermining instead of complaining
How many unhappy dedicated miners are we talking about? 10, 20, 50, 500, 1000?
Most miners just mine with a profitable pool, they don't care if it is clever or coinmine or hardcore or criptoe, miners generally don't care as long as the pool brings profits to them.
edit: I would expect complaining miners to simply move over to clevermining instead of complaining
I think Biomike and Frais can explain the best. There are a few big dedicated miners between 100 Mh/s and 3 Gh/s. That is most because of defence as well. Normally dedicated miners mine for some profit without the multipool active. The mulipool mines with 10+ Gh/s now. If that leaves or lowers a lot, then mining is interesting again and more dedicated miners will come in.
Now only a few dedicated miners have to put up multiple GH/s to "fight" against Clever. Despite of that Clever gets 50-65% of the coins mined daily. Otherwise Clever will get even more of all coins mined. It is not profitable for dedicated miners this way.
Most miners just mine with a profitable pool, they don't care if it is clever or coinmine or hardcore or criptoe, miners generally don't care as long as the pool brings profits to them.
And again, don't judge. It's nearly impossible to profit from Guldencoin mining with these low prices. Most of the current miners are mining because they want to prevent cleverming of raping Guldencoin. Mining Guldencoin equals burning bitcoins at this moment. In my case that's more than 10 Bitcoin for the past month.
There was a tough discussion, then consensus and a desicion made by the team you are part of.
What is the message you giving us by making doubts about the decision you are part of?
I don't understand...
What is the message you giving us by making doubts about the decision you are part of?
I don't understand...
I never tested Digishield, but I did read the code during the switch from KGW to a new algo (which became DGW3). My impression was that Digishield is a lot similar to DGW3, but I thought DGW3 was slightly better. The reason there is somewhat consensus is based on the great testing job done by fuse, criptoe and others. So the community started voting for Digishield, and simply followed the wishes of the community.
I know creating a custom algorithm will take longer than simply implementing the existing Digishield algorithm.. So thats why Digishield is the easy choice right now.
If digishield doesn't work we expected, we can always change again later..
Hai GJ. How long do you think it will last for the simulator to get ready for testing the bigger waves as well? Can you give an indication?
If it is only 2 or 3 weeks or so, I agree with you to wait and implement the best solution at once. But most dedicated miners have enough of what Clever does. It is going on too long now and if all takes another month or 2 months, I think most want the Digishield now, me included. I understand their point of view.
That is why keep the community updated with updates and info on this project was/is that important, not only when things are finished. I understand it is difficult to say when it is ready though, but an indication would be good as well.
If it is only 2 or 3 weeks or so, I agree with you to wait and implement the best solution at once. But most dedicated miners have enough of what Clever does. It is going on too long now and if all takes another month or 2 months, I think most want the Digishield now, me included. I understand their point of view.
That is why keep the community updated with updates and info on this project was/is that important, not only when things are finished. I understand it is difficult to say when it is ready though, but an indication would be good as well.
The larger waves is quite simple, will take me an hour or so to make a perfect job.
Digishield implementation will take a bit longer, maybe 5 or 6 hours..
More timeconsuming features are exporting a simulated chain to excel for further analysis.
Cheers!
Community Alert!!!
Digishield is not going to be a magic bullet against Clevermining. In fact, expect network difficulty to hit new record highs and be 'stuck' for long periods of time.
If Clevermining hits the NLG network with 10x or 20x hash-rate of the base nethash, the difficulty will hit 10x or 20x in a blink. Digishield deals very aggressively with hash-rate spikes, and when Clevermining exits, taking the hash-rate with them, the network is going to be 'stuck' at a very high difficulty.
This Digishield doing its job, reacting quick enough to make it unprofitable to attack the network with high hash-rate.
No one knows how Clevermining or its profitability algo will react to this change. Terk may continue to test the network looking for a way to get coins at a discount. Depends on the tenacity of the Clevermining team as to how many cycles the network has to go through till Clevermining discovers how to best handle the changed diff algo. Do not expect Clevermining to go quietly, NLG has been their cash cow for many months.
I am expecting new record highs of difficulty and some long, grinding sessions before the network achieves equilibrium. What I don't expect to see is false difficulty lows and Clevermining minting the majority of the blocks in a 24hr period by attacking. If Terk decides to park 20x hash-rate on the NLG network for a few days or weeks, Clevermining will own the NLG network by brute force, but not at a discount as they have been.
The NLG dev team and community need to have realistic expectations of the upcoming difficulty algo change and the above is what I expect to happen.
Understand that if it were up to me, we'd take more time to develop and test a better solution. But it seems the majority of the community wants to try Digishield..
There was a tough discussion, then consensus and a desicion made by the team where you are part of.
What is the message you giving us by making doubts about the decision you were part of. I don't understand...
Let's step back a second.
I am going to go on record as saying that I don't completely agree with 24Kilo's post. I've messaged him in Criptoe chat to tell him the same. We often have differences of opinions, and I think that's what makes my team strong. 24Kilo is my devil's advocate on almost everything I do, and I love him for it.
While parts of 24Kilo's statement are probably true, the fact of the matter is that for them to become true, Terk would need to alter his profitability algorithm to ignore the exit point on NLG. He would need to take a decisive action to ignore his miner's profit to fulfill his personal vendetta against the coin. That would not end well for him publicly. I honestly don't think it will happen. 24Kilo and I went on for a week arguing about this... the difference between a profit script led multipool and a miner with a lot of hashrate. We just need to make sure Terk doesn't turn into the latter.
That being said, if profit continues to drive Terk's operations, we won't have reason to worry. DIGI will do it's job, and we'll be fine. However, if he does play god with the hashrate, there is nothing that can be done to stop that, short of programming them out in the code(bans, blocking, whatever). Anyone with enough hashrate can control a chain. It's a fundamental principal of mining.
-Fuse
Jump to: