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Topic: Nefario - page 44. (Read 198678 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
October 13, 2012, 09:06:29 AM
Multisig + nLockTime transactions could do the job. First, we guarantee that the service operator is not able of running away with the money. With nLockTime we guarantee that, even if the operator disappears, the money shall come back to its rightful owners in, say, one month. I guess similar things could be implemented in OT to give the same guarantees concerning the assets.
Obviously, there's a long road to get there. nLockTime is currently not fully supported by the network. AFAIK BitcoinJS doesn't do multisig, and I know no other javascript client that could be easily embedded in a browser. I don't know if OT currently supports multisignature either, nor if there is a javascript OT client. Being honest, multisig isn't really essential. But multisig may also protect the user against a malware in their own computer. I find this important.

There's still an important trust issue that remains unsolved: the asset issuers. Established companies might not dare openly selling their shares in a black market. Actually, I wonder if any non-anonymous company would. And as we know already, trusting an anonymous issuer is a serious issue. There might be ways to overcome this problem too, but it won't be simple.

You can't trust an anonymous issuer, never ever. Somebody might say he needs some money to expand his mining farm and in reality the money goes to the Mafia. They can make up any bullshit that somebody might believe and there's no way to verify it. They might pay interest every week and even if you don't lose any money there's every likelihood that your money will be used for some nefarious purpose instead of what they told you. No thanks.

Thats why you shouldnt invest in projects that you dont trust fully. But people do. Look at the hyip-world. How many new hyips are bord each week? And really everytime there are people investing to check out if they are valid. They fully know they arent valid but they hope it again and again.

I wouldnt invest from the start. Thats first point. So you can watch the thing a bit how it goes. Then you check if the businessplan sounds correct or not sufficiently explained, if the numbers add up and so on. And then you check what character the issuer shows. Of course he can be a master in his field but a risk remains everytime.

And if the mafia goes into to gain 40.000usd or somewhat? I dont believe that. If such thing earns 400.000 or 4.000.000 then maybe... but then this must be a project sounding fully fine without doubts coming up somewhere and with the possibility to fuel peoples greed. Its not so easy i think to make the mafia pleased with this.

I think mafia will be more interested into the possibility of moving money with bitcoins. Thats probably more matching to them.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
October 13, 2012, 08:06:59 AM
I am pretty sure he is not paying at this point.  I hope I am proven wrong.

There's only one option left, and since we know where he lives (image is a link):




Ahh, my Media Player froze, I it stuck and a loop and I can't end it.

Someone help me... please.

I ... can't... take... it any more
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
October 13, 2012, 07:50:21 AM
Multisig + nLockTime transactions could do the job. First, we guarantee that the service operator is not able of running away with the money. With nLockTime we guarantee that, even if the operator disappears, the money shall come back to its rightful owners in, say, one month. I guess similar things could be implemented in OT to give the same guarantees concerning the assets.
Obviously, there's a long road to get there. nLockTime is currently not fully supported by the network. AFAIK BitcoinJS doesn't do multisig, and I know no other javascript client that could be easily embedded in a browser. I don't know if OT currently supports multisignature either, nor if there is a javascript OT client. Being honest, multisig isn't really essential. But multisig may also protect the user against a malware in their own computer. I find this important.

There's still an important trust issue that remains unsolved: the asset issuers. Established companies might not dare openly selling their shares in a black market. Actually, I wonder if any non-anonymous company would. And as we know already, trusting an anonymous issuer is a serious issue. There might be ways to overcome this problem too, but it won't be simple.

You can't trust an anonymous issuer, never ever. Somebody might say he needs some money to expand his mining farm and in reality the money goes to the Mafia. They can make up any bullshit that somebody might believe and there's no way to verify it. They might pay interest every week and even if you don't lose any money there's every likelihood that your money will be used for some nefarious purpose instead of what they told you. No thanks.
full member
Activity: 195
Merit: 100
October 13, 2012, 07:00:59 AM
I am pretty sure he is not paying at this point.  I hope I am proven wrong.

There's only one option left, and since we know where he lives (image is a link):




hehe, nice car! how many bitcoins does it cost? =)
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 13, 2012, 04:40:18 AM
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
October 13, 2012, 02:51:02 AM
I am pretty sure he is not paying at this point.  I hope I am proven wrong.

There's only one option left, and since we know where he lives (image is a link):


legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1026
Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012
October 13, 2012, 02:23:12 AM
I am pretty sure he is not paying at this point.  I hope I am proven wrong.
sr. member
Activity: 382
Merit: 253
October 12, 2012, 07:17:24 PM
No actual company would list on a black market except black market businesses.

I won't list my actual business (Shire Silver) on a "white market" exchange. My business it totally legal and legit, but it does directly challenge government power (in the same way bitcoin does) so listing on a regulated exchange would be suicidal.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 12, 2012, 06:47:03 PM
No actual company would list on a black market except black market businesses.

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
October 12, 2012, 06:10:19 PM
Why the h... there still isnt one btc on the way? And no issuer got info till now. What are you doing? Its not that you need to create a script. That doesnt count anymore. So what are you doing?
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
October 12, 2012, 05:13:19 PM
And then perhaps the perps behind this particular fraud should be whipped. Publicly in the town square.

This is starting to sound more like the society our grand-grandfathers lived in, and I'm seeing it with my own eyes.
I could not agree more with this way of solving the issues, feel like having it "programmed" in my genes or something, but we have to tackle the physical presence issue at some point.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
October 12, 2012, 03:21:09 PM
And then perhaps the perps behind this particular fraud should be whipped. Publicly in the town square.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
www.bitcointrading.com
October 12, 2012, 02:50:30 PM
Jesus H. Christ, this thread is still going? The BTC Guild mining thread has been going since like Oct-Nov of 2011 and its only 56 pages last time I checked!

BTC Guild closing down would be insignificant compared to what happened when GBLSE shut-down.  Especially in the manner which it has happened. 

Whipping a dead horse much!

Ah, until we get our money back the horse will continue to be whipped. 
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1026
Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012
October 12, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
Jesus H. Christ, this thread is still going? The BTC Guild mining thread has been going since like Oct-Nov of 2011 and its only 56 pages last time I checked!

BTC Guild closing down would be insignificant compared to what happened when GBLSE shut-down.  Especially in the manner which it has happened. 
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
October 12, 2012, 10:10:38 AM
It'd be in the darknet, of course. Like Silk Road.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
October 12, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
But a centralized market could be attacked by government. They only need to find the server and catch them. Then nLockTime and so on cant help am i right?
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
October 12, 2012, 09:26:09 AM
So, someone needs to start a total anonymous identityless exchange.

People can't even get their funds back from exchange owners whose identities are known.  What makes you think that anyone who sets up a totally anonymous exchange is going to be trustworthy?

The idea is not depending on them being.

Multisig + nLockTime transactions could do the job. First, we guarantee that the service operator is not able of running away with the money. With nLockTime we guarantee that, even if the operator disappears, the money shall come back to its rightful owners in, say, one month. I guess similar things could be implemented in OT to give the same guarantees concerning the assets.
Obviously, there's a long road to get there. nLockTime is currently not fully supported by the network. AFAIK BitcoinJS doesn't do multisig, and I know no other javascript client that could be easily embedded in a browser. I don't know if OT currently supports multisignature either, nor if there is a javascript OT client. Being honest, multisig isn't really essential. But multisig may also protect the user against a malware in their own computer. I find this important.

There's still an important trust issue that remains unsolved: the asset issuers. Established companies might not dare openly selling their shares in a black market. Actually, I wonder if any non-anonymous company would. And as we know already, trusting an anonymous issuer is a serious issue. There might be ways to overcome this problem too, but it won't be simple.
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
October 12, 2012, 08:45:17 AM
I dont know, because i wasnt here at ipo. But i trusted diablo because of his reputation. That this doesnt mean for business quality i had to learn. The plan was to create a mining rig. He didnt do that. I dont see whats so bad with the plan like it was presented from the start.

Please read the DMC thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diablo-mining-company-77469

Every possible concern with Diablo's conduct and "business plan" was pointed out within it.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
October 12, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
I dont know, because i wasnt here at ipo. But i trusted diablo because of his reputation. That this doesnt mean for business quality i had to learn. The plan was to create a mining rig. He didnt do that. I dont see whats so bad with the plan like it was presented from the start.
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
October 12, 2012, 08:32:52 AM
O come on... as if the ipo-investors should have know how diablo will handle dmc. at ipo everything looked fine. Diablo was a distributor to the community with his miner and everyone trusted him.

If you spoke about pirate invests... then i could say ok... but diablo not.

It may have looked fine to you but it certainly didn't to me. I do investments for a living and I can assure you that I lost lots of money in companies that had far, far better business plans than DMC.

DMC was truly ridiculous.
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