Nefario GLBSE - page 13. | Bitcointalksearch.org

sadpandatech

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Quote from: Luke-Jr on September 23, 2012, 09:08:37 PM

IMO, if Nefario also said not to buy them, he's under no obligation to honour ones bought afterward...

yep, he made that pretty clear, imo.

The offer was to reimburse the people who got suckered by the scam issuer. IT was never intended to cover 'illegal' trades executed after that statment time. Goat knows this.

legolouman

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Quote from: Vbs on September 23, 2012, 09:02:33 PM

Quote from: legolouman on September 23, 2012, 08:10:31 PM

I don't really understand where the debate is. Because Nefario doesn't have the authority to honor his word means that he is 'all good'?

My understanding:

He acknowledged the shares were fake, but agreed to 'honor' them, making them real GLBSE stock

Goat then buys it, thinking that it will become real stock

Nefario cannot make it stock, because he assumed he had more power than he did. Obviously, he could have known he cannot just 'make more stock'

Now to clean it all up, the fake, but then real, but now fake again stock is being bought back for the initial IPO listing price?

However, at the same time, I feel that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It would be like going to a car dealership and being offered a price that is too low. Being told You are paying $$$$, but the contract says $$$$$. Would the dealership be a 'scammer'?

It's more like: You go to a car dealership and the vendor, by mistake, offered you a price that was too low, let's say 10% of what it was really worth. Later, after seeing he made a mistake, he says he will honor the price. And you say: "Oh, yes? Then I'll buy 10!!!".

So, while he was trying to cover your "losses" out of good-will, you use that good-will to maximize your own profit at his expense. Sad

This makes sense. Though wouldn't the car dealer like to do the same to you? Buy back you car for 10% its value or sell you cars at 1000% their value?

Generally, I don't see an issue in exploiting a businesses mistake, because you can't expect to make money on trust.

Since I seemed to have missed that Goat sold his shares for 10BTC each, and now wants a refund its like double dipping. Buying those 10 cars for 10% of their value, and soon returning them, demanding full price back.

kjj

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 23, 2012, 09:16:38 PM

Nefario didnt scam the people Goat sold the shares to for 10btc. Goat scammed them.

This seems to be an unfounded accusation. Do you have some evidence that he acted in less than good faith?

If Goat had inside information that the Nefario would not honor his word, but that information wasn't also available to the people he sold them to, I could see it. But your dislike of profit doesn't seem sufficient.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Nefario didnt scam the people Goat sold the shares to for 10btc. Goat scammed them.

Luke-Jr

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IMO, if Nefario also said not to buy them, he's under no obligation to honour ones bought afterward...

Vbs

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Quote from: legolouman on September 23, 2012, 08:10:31 PM

I don't really understand where the debate is. Because Nefario doesn't have the authority to honor his word means that he is 'all good'?

My understanding:

He acknowledged the shares were fake, but agreed to 'honor' them, making them real GLBSE stock

Goat then buys it, thinking that it will become real stock

Nefario cannot make it stock, because he assumed he had more power than he did. Obviously, he could have known he cannot just 'make more stock'

Now to clean it all up, the fake, but then real, but now fake again stock is being bought back for the initial IPO listing price?

However, at the same time, I feel that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It would be like going to a car dealership and being offered a price that is too low. Being told You are paying $$$$, but the contract says $$$$$. Would the dealership be a 'scammer'?

It's more like: You go to a car dealership and the vendor, by mistake, offered you a price that was too low, let's say 10% of what it was really worth. Later, after seeing he made a mistake, he says he will honor the price. And you say: "Oh, yes? Then I'll buy 10!!!".

So, while he was trying to cover your "losses" out of good-will, you use that good-will to maximize your own profit at his expense. Sad

kjj

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 07:58:06 PM

Quote from: kjj on September 23, 2012, 07:28:20 PM

Do you have a citation for the pricing? I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit. It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

Goat never stated or even implied he bought shares for 10 BTC ea. He did however sell fake shares he knew were worthless for 10 BTC to unsuspecting fools.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1212459

Ahh. Found it.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I sold 2x at 10 btc and one at 11 btc.

I paid something like .05 btc for them. I still have many more I will sell but looking to get close to 10BTC each Wink

Goat apparently paid something like 0.05 BTC each for them. Nefario should offer to repurchase them from him at 0.05 or 0.06 BTC each, out of his own personal funds. If he does, I think that everyone (except possibly Goat) would consider the matter to be equitably resolved.

The matter of the shares that people purchased from Goat is a different matter. The good news is that it sounds like there are only 3 of them, and I don't think any of them have come forward, so they might be happy with their 10 BTC collector's items.

legolouman

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Decent Programmer to boot!

I don't really understand where the debate is. Because Nefario doesn't have the authority to honor his word means that he is 'all good'?

My understanding:

He acknowledged the shares were fake, but agreed to 'honor' them, making them real GLBSE stock

Goat then buys it, thinking that it will become real stock

Nefario cannot make it stock, because he assumed he had more power than he did. Obviously, he could have known he cannot just 'make more stock'

Now to clean it all up, the fake, but then real, but now fake again stock is being bought back for the initial IPO listing price?

However, at the same time, I feel that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It would be like going to a car dealership and being offered a price that is too low. Being told You are paying $$$$, but the contract says $$$$$. Would the dealership be a 'scammer'?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: kjj on September 23, 2012, 07:28:20 PM

Do you have a citation for the pricing? I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit. It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

Goat never stated or even implied he bought shares for 10 BTC ea. He did however sell fake shares he knew were worthless for 10 BTC to unsuspecting fools.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1212459

Luke-Jr

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 23, 2012, 07:45:37 PM

Quote from: BitcoinINV on September 23, 2012, 10:58:09 AM

Quote from: Vbs on September 23, 2012, 10:45:35 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:33:48 AM

(...) Nefario has said the fake GLBSE shares will be removed from everyone's accounts and they will be given the IPO price (0.1 BTC). (...)

Personally, paying 0.1 is too much for them, it's like rewarding exploiters. Even after Nefario told those were fake shares, there are still individuals wanting to exploit his good-will for maximum profit. Incredible!

Welcome to the wonderful world of bitcoin forums lol

Its Goat we are talking about here.

And Goat is a known troll.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: BitcoinINV on September 23, 2012, 10:58:09 AM

Quote from: Vbs on September 23, 2012, 10:45:35 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:33:48 AM

(...) Nefario has said the fake GLBSE shares will be removed from everyone's accounts and they will be given the IPO price (0.1 BTC). (...)

Personally, paying 0.1 is too much for them, it's like rewarding exploiters. Even after Nefario told those were fake shares, there are still individuals wanting to exploit his good-will for maximum profit. Incredible!

Welcome to the wonderful world of bitcoin forums lol

Its Goat we are talking about here.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: c0ffer on September 23, 2012, 10:19:02 AM

I am trying to understand what is going on with this but am having a difficult time deciphering the problem.

So there was to be a GLBSE asset that was going to be nefario's and people bought shares, but now it is being said that the GLBSE listing was actually fake?

Now nefario won't use his omnipotent powers of TOS rules or "vetting" to correct the situation, but is instead saying that he can't make changes because of voting? Is this for voting on the "fake" GLBSE or for the real one? Is there a "real" GLBSE listing? Is the "fake" listing still active?

GLBSE has real shareholders and bylaws and the only people qualified to buy anyones shares are existing shareholders.

kjj

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:08:40 AM

Quote from: makomk on September 23, 2012, 07:40:06 AM

Quote from: BadBear on September 22, 2012, 03:06:20 PM

Goat has thus far refused to communicate with me, so I'm going to go ahead and post my thoughts based on the available information.

I don't think Nefario is a scammer.

If Nefario were to honor those shares, he would be in breach of contract with the shareholders. He cannot issue new shares, nor can new shareholders be brought in without a vote from existing shareholders. Giving him a scammer tag for not doing something he legally can't do is not ethical or logical.

At the time he made that promise, he either knew or should have known that he couldn't keep it based on his existing contractual obligations. He made it anyway. He and others profited from that false statement, whilst people like Goat who had no reason to believe that Nefario wouldn't fulfil the promise he had made - because unlike Nefario they didn't have any way of knowing about the contract stating he couldn't - have lost money.

Why are you assuming goat lost money. Reading between the lines Goat bought shares at the IPO price, shares he knew were worthless. He then sold a few of them for 10 BTC ea (a 10,000% profit) to victims and now will get reimbursed in full for the remaining shares. So please tell me exactly what Goat "lost"?

Do you have a citation for the pricing? I haven't seen anything to suggest that Goat purchased at the IPO price and then sold for a profit. It sounds more like he purchased them for 10 BTC each, but I don't think he's actually said that explicitly.

The most equitable resolution to this would be for Nefario to make an offer of purchase for the shares, at his own expense, or if the other shareholders agree, at company expense, at the price each holder paid for them, assuming that such a price can reasonably be demonstrated. That said, I don't think that failure to do so would be grounds for a scammer tag. Sounds like an honest mistake on his part, and not ill intent.

BitcoinINV

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Quote from: Vbs on September 23, 2012, 10:45:35 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:33:48 AM

(...) Nefario has said the fake GLBSE shares will be removed from everyone's accounts and they will be given the IPO price (0.1 BTC). (...)

Personally, paying 0.1 is too much for them, it's like rewarding exploiters. Even after Nefario told those were fake shares, there are still individuals wanting to exploit his good-will for maximum profit. Incredible!

Welcome to the wonderful world of bitcoin forums lol

Vbs

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:33:48 AM

(...) Nefario has said the fake GLBSE shares will be removed from everyone's accounts and they will be given the IPO price (0.1 BTC). (...)

Personally, paying 0.1 is too much for them, it's like rewarding exploiters. Even after Nefario told those were fake shares, there are still individuals wanting to exploit his good-will for maximum profit. Incredible!

DannyM

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 23, 2012, 10:33:48 AM

GLBSE has never been publicly traded. Foolishly nefario never blocked the ticker symbol GLBSE.

Well not GLBSE, but nefario announced that the Bitcoin Global asset listed on GLBSE was in fact officially the company owning and operating GLBSE.

When I saw GLBSE trading months later, I thought perhaps some of the Bitcoin Global shareholders had decided to sell. I had forgotten that the ticker symbol was BG not GLBSE.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: c0ffer on September 23, 2012, 10:19:02 AM

I am trying to understand what is going on with this but am having a difficult time deciphering the problem.

So there was to be a GLBSE asset that was going to be nefario's and people bought shares, but now it is being said that the GLBSE listing was actually fake?

Now nefario won't use his omnipotent powers of TOS rules or "vetting" to correct the situation, but is instead saying that he can't make changes because of voting? Is this for voting on the "fake" GLBSE or for the real one? Is there a "real" GLBSE listing? Is the "fake" listing still active?

No none of that is correct. GLBSE has never been publicly traded. Foolishly nefario never blocked the ticker symbol GLBSE. Another scammer, registered a contract under the ticker GLBSE and sold about 30 BTC worth of shares before it was delisted. At this point neither the fake listing nor the real GLBSE shares are available for trade. Anyone who had fake GLBSE shares at the point it was delisted has them in their accont. They can be transfered to another account.

Goat has some (? number) of shares of the fake stock. He knew they were the fake stock when he bought them, he knows they are the fake stock now. He ripped off other users selling what he knew was fake stock for 10 BTC a share (a 10,000% profit for himself). Nefario has said the fake GLBSE shares will be removed from everyone's accounts and they will be given the IPO price (0.1 BTC). Goat (the only scammer in the thread) calls that a scam.

wachtwoord

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The reals GLBSE assets aren't publicly traded

c0ffer

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Gems:Crypto

I am trying to understand what is going on with this but am having a difficult time deciphering the problem.

So there was to be a GLBSE asset that was going to be nefario's and people bought shares, but now it is being said that the GLBSE listing was actually fake?

Now nefario won't use his omnipotent powers of TOS rules or "vetting" to correct the situation, but is instead saying that he can't make changes because of voting? Is this for voting on the "fake" GLBSE or for the real one? Is there a "real" GLBSE listing? Is the "fake" listing still active?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: makomk on September 23, 2012, 07:40:06 AM

Quote from: BadBear on September 22, 2012, 03:06:20 PM

Goat has thus far refused to communicate with me, so I'm going to go ahead and post my thoughts based on the available information.

I don't think Nefario is a scammer.

If Nefario were to honor those shares, he would be in breach of contract with the shareholders. He cannot issue new shares, nor can new shareholders be brought in without a vote from existing shareholders. Giving him a scammer tag for not doing something he legally can't do is not ethical or logical.

At the time he made that promise, he either knew or should have known that he couldn't keep it based on his existing contractual obligations. He made it anyway. He and others profited from that false statement, whilst people like Goat who had no reason to believe that Nefario wouldn't fulfil the promise he had made - because unlike Nefario they didn't have any way of knowing about the contract stating he couldn't - have lost money.

Why are you assuming goat lost money. Reading between the lines Goat bought shares at the IPO price, shares he knew were worthless. He then sold a few of them for 10 BTC ea (a 10,000% profit) to victims and now will get reimbursed in full for the remaining shares. So please tell me exactly what Goat "lost"?

Topic: Nefario GLBSE - page 13. (Read 28552 times)