I wonder, why the shareholders of GLBSE Real should be held liable for the actions of a criminal in His courtesy offer to the holders of those fraudulent shares became an issue now, only because of the scammish behavior of Goat in trying to sell these worthless assets for a massive profit, knowing full well that they were Fakes, and had nothing backing them up.
You are saying the assets were worthless even after Nefario stated he would redeem them? Why? Should Goat have known not to trust Nefario? 
Topic: Nefario GLBSE - page 9. (Read 28552 times)
I wonder, why the shareholders of GLBSE Real should be held liable for the actions of a criminal in creating GLBSE Fake? There operating partner, Nefario, identified the fraud as soon as it was known, and made no indication AT THAT TIME that there would be any compensation to the victims of the fraud. It was only later, after any reasonable person had a chance to know the state of the fake asset that Nefario extended the courtesy of compensation to the holders of GLBSE Fake. That he did so without the contractual ability to do so was identified almost immediately by the balance of the shareholders of GLBSE Real, and he was stopped from going forward with this plan. His courtesy offer to the holders of those fraudulent shares became an issue now, only because of the scammish behavior of Goat in trying to sell these worthless assets for a massive profit, knowing full well that they were Fakes, and had nothing backing them up.
So "fake"/"fraudulent" GLBSE shares were listed but also still remain listed and traded?
And, the "real" shares in the GLBSE are not actually traded on the GLBSE?
And, the "real" shares in the GLBSE are not actually traded on the GLBSE?
They are no longer listed or tradeable on the exchange. They can be "traded" off the exchange by using the transfer function (transfer assets from one account to another account).
This is correct.
Nefario however let the "fake" GLBSE trade for months after he said they would be converted to real GLBSE assets.
I now hold "fake" GLBSE stock and do not consent to them being sold to Nefario for .1 BTC Nefario needs to just leave them alone as I value them more than he does.
This is my huge problem with this whole story.
Goat and nefario do not get along, and act like asshats toward each other. This is irrelevant. What is relevant is what was agreed to by both parties in the past, how the glbse shareholders have responded to the egregious overstepping of authority by nefario, and the offer (and further negotiations) on the table.
IMO, the reason that GLBSE must honor those shares, is they were allowed to trade on the open market for a very very long time. Anyone could have bought them. I almost bought some too. I would have liked to own shares in GLBSE. I am now glad I do not. I wouldn't want to be trying to dump them this week as GLBSE starts to feel the pressure of nefario's bad & arbitrary decisions.
IMO, all of the shareholders of GLBSE should be held accountable for this issue, not just nefario.
Goat never got back to him to agree to those terms. Goat wants to give Nefario a scammer tag because he was too fucking lazy or ignorant to conclude the deal. There is no evidence that Goat agreed to anything just that Nefario made an offer.
What "terms" are you talking about? There were never any terms for anyone to agree to. This wasn't, "If you do X, I'll do Y." this was "I'm going to do X, so you don't have to worry about Y."
@BadBear I will talk to Maged.
But as you have seen Theymos said Nefario made that deal and Nefario said he made that deal.
It seems pretty pointless if Nefario can get away with it by just deleting some forum posts or what not... In the future we will ahve to back up the whole site every time someone who we trust makes and verbal contract...
But anyway it has gone way beyond at this point. He has stolen my assets.
I'm interested to see if you really will give Nefario the scammers tag or not, he has more than made it clear that he made an agreement with me and broke it and then stole from me.
Destroying my GLBSE account with my assets in it is theft.
But as you have seen Theymos said Nefario made that deal and Nefario said he made that deal.
It seems pretty pointless if Nefario can get away with it by just deleting some forum posts or what not... In the future we will ahve to back up the whole site every time someone who we trust makes and verbal contract...
But anyway it has gone way beyond at this point. He has stolen my assets.
I'm interested to see if you really will give Nefario the scammers tag or not, he has more than made it clear that he made an agreement with me and broke it and then stole from me.
Destroying my GLBSE account with my assets in it is theft.
I can't help you if you don't help me.
This'd seem to run against the shield-not-sword doctrine tho.
I presume he's trying to recover losses, not replace lost profits. If that's not true, then it's a different story. 
I'm not going to do anything based on your word, I want to see exactly what was said. The original agreement is very important when determining if the agreement was broken, I don't see how that is difficult to understand or why I have to explain it.
Actions Nefario has taken since he admitted to this should be clear enough. He stole my assets. That is black and white.
Anyway Maged has been contacted.
Did you ever agree to what Nefario offered ? You cant just ignore the offer and later say "we had a deal" when it wasnt one.
As I see it, it wasn't an offer, it was an statement, or announce even.
Ther wasn't question mark in the end anyway.
I'm not going to do anything based on your word, I want to see exactly what was said. The original agreement is very important when determining if the agreement was broken, I don't see how that is difficult to understand or why I have to explain it.
Actions Nefario has taken since he admitted to this should be clear enough. He stole my assets. That is black and white.
Anyway Maged has been contacted.
Did you ever agree to what Nefario offered ? You cant just ignore the offer and later say "we had a deal" when it wasnt one.
Not that, the original quotes from the time it happened.
I'll look for it now, but how it is is it not enough that Nefario admitted that?! How's that?
Why now you doubt it?
Goat never got back to him to agree to those terms. Goat wants to give Nefario a scammer tag because he was too fucking lazy or ignorant to conclude the deal. There is no evidence that Goat agreed to anything just that Nefario made an offer.
I never said you would get more stock in the future, we did talk about you becoming a GLBSE investor but that came to nothing, you kept changing your mind and the accusing me of stuff.
See a doctor.
See a doctor.
You said a deal would be made if I did not list on other exchanges. This was when you froze Kludges account and assets because you feared he would make a new stock exchange. But that is not the topic here.
You said you would force the sale of my property and that is theft. We all now this...
See a lawyer.
You said you'd think about it and never gave me an answer. Thats not a deal.
Thank you for admitting you made this offer. Now why did you think you could make that offer if you were bound by the GLBSE contract? Did you not understand the contract or did you just trick me?
An offer does not constitute a contract, and would require shareholder approval before it could go through. Nothing violated.
You never talked about depending on "share holder approval" in this case or when you claimed the GLBSE stock would be made good.
Saying there was no contract or keeping secret part of the deal does not give you the right to trick others to take actions, nor does it give you the right to take my property.
What is a "contract" anyway? Clearly you word is not your bond...
But you never got back to him agreeing to that. You waited till now to complain about it instead of doing the decent thing and sorting it out at the time the offer was made. You never agreed to terms of any binding contract and never bothered to find out the terms of being a glbse shareholder. You just assumed you could do whatever the fuck you wanted including selling shares for inflated prices when you had no right to do so.
I'm not going to do anything based on your word, I want to see exactly what was said. The original agreement is very important when determining if the agreement was broken, I don't see how that is difficult to understand or why I have to explain it.
Not that, the original quotes from the time it happened.
I'll look for it now, but how it is is it not enough that Nefario admitted that?! How's that?
Why now you doubt it?
Not that, the original quotes from the time it happened.
An offer does not constitute a contract, and would require shareholder approval before it could go through. Nothing violated.
I'm afraid that's not true because in this case, there is detrimental reliance sufficient to create promissory estoppel."A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise. The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires." -- Second Restatement of Contracts
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel
"Certain elements must be established to invoke promissory estoppel. A promisor—one who makes a promise—makes a gratuitous promise that he should reasonably have expected to induce action or forbearance of a definite and substantial character on the part of the promisee—one to whom a promise has been made. The promisee justifiably relies on the promise. A substantial detriment—that is, an economic loss—ensues to the promisee from action or forbearance. Injustice can be avoided only by enforcing the promise.
A majority of courts apply the doctrine to any situation in which all of these elements are present."
It appears in this case, a promise was made. The promise was relied upon to the detriment of those who relied on it. This reliance was foreseeable and should have been reasonably expected to increase the value of the outstanding shares. However, what the consequences of this should be is a closer question. Enforcing the promise would mean that the promisor would be liable for damages for breach of the promise.
This is why if nothing else I feel tricked, used and stolen from.
He thinks that by delisting all of my assets and destroying my GLBSE account he can just take my assets and BTC. That is just scammer...
Signed contract or it didn't happen.
Maged and I have both asked him for links/quotes, but he won't for some reason. I wonder what that reason is.
Quoting my post since Goat seems to have missed it.
What were the exact words he said when he made the listing "legitimate"?
I would have to look it up but there are many people who know Nefario said he would make them "legitimate". Nefario even admitted it in this thread.
Humor us and post quotes/links.
Here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112071.20
The problem we currently have was caused by how I dealt with this. Failing to reserve the asset name GLBSE I felt had enabled it to happen. And I announced that those assets that were sold would be honored, at the time I thought I had the power to make this decision.
An offer does not constitute a contract, and would require shareholder approval before it could go through. Nothing violated.
I'm afraid that's not true because in this case, there is detrimental reliance sufficient to create promissory estoppel."A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise. The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires." -- Second Restatement of Contracts
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel
"Certain elements must be established to invoke promissory estoppel. A promisor—one who makes a promise—makes a gratuitous promise that he should reasonably have expected to induce action or forbearance of a definite and substantial character on the part of the promisee—one to whom a promise has been made. The promisee justifiably relies on the promise. A substantial detriment—that is, an economic loss—ensues to the promisee from action or forbearance. Injustice can be avoided only by enforcing the promise.
A majority of courts apply the doctrine to any situation in which all of these elements are present."
It appears in this case, a promise was made. The promise was relied upon to the detriment of those who relied on it. This reliance was foreseeable and should have been reasonably expected to increase the value of the outstanding shares. However, what the consequences of this should be is a closer question. Enforcing the promise would mean that the promisor would be liable for damages for breach of the promise.
This is why if nothing else I feel tricked, used and stolen from.
He thinks that by delisting all of my assets and destroying my GLBSE account he can just take my assets and BTC. That is just scammer...
Signed contract or it didn't happen.
Maged and I have both asked him for links/quotes, but he won't for some reason. I wonder what that reason is.
Quoting my post since Goat seems to have missed it.
What were the exact words he said when he made the listing "legitimate"?
I would have to look it up but there are many people who know Nefario said he would make them "legitimate". Nefario even admitted it in this thread.
Humor us and post quotes/links.
An offer does not constitute a contract, and would require shareholder approval before it could go through. Nothing violated.
I'm afraid that's not true because in this case, there is detrimental reliance sufficient to create promissory estoppel."A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise. The remedy granted for breach may be limited as justice requires." -- Second Restatement of Contracts
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Promissory+Estoppel
"Certain elements must be established to invoke promissory estoppel. A promisor—one who makes a promise—makes a gratuitous promise that he should reasonably have expected to induce action or forbearance of a definite and substantial character on the part of the promisee—one to whom a promise has been made. The promisee justifiably relies on the promise. A substantial detriment—that is, an economic loss—ensues to the promisee from action or forbearance. Injustice can be avoided only by enforcing the promise.
A majority of courts apply the doctrine to any situation in which all of these elements are present."
It appears in this case, a promise was made. The promise was relied upon to the detriment of those who relied on it. This reliance was foreseeable and should have been reasonably expected to increase the value of the outstanding shares. However, what the consequences of this should be is a closer question. Enforcing the promise would mean that the promisor would be liable for damages for breach of the promise.
This is why if nothing else I feel tricked, used and stolen from.
He thinks that by delisting all of my assets and destroying my GLBSE account he can just take my assets and BTC. That is just scammer...
Signed contract or it didn't happen.
Aww, doesn't it just suck when karma bites you on the ass? Goat, you had it coming, if in fact this is what has happened. Guess advise from counsel was to swat the little irritating mosquito. Bummer to be you, huh?
Goat:
GLBSE is a startup and always when you start something new some mistakes are made.
I take it you did even make a huge Profit (in %) trading these shares so on the contrary to the people who bought this shares from you, no financial damage was done to you.
I don't here the people who where damaged by this scam complaining.
Couldn't you just call this a mistake and leave it be?
Must you really fight this to the bitter end? This whole thing has already escalated to much.
Just think for a moment of the possible outcomes if you go through with this to the bitter end:
(I now I'm overdrawing a little)
Or you just give in and walk out of this with a profit, whats the harm in that?
GLBSE is a startup and always when you start something new some mistakes are made.
I take it you did even make a huge Profit (in %) trading these shares so on the contrary to the people who bought this shares from you, no financial damage was done to you.
I don't here the people who where damaged by this scam complaining.
Couldn't you just call this a mistake and leave it be?
Must you really fight this to the bitter end? This whole thing has already escalated to much.
Just think for a moment of the possible outcomes if you go through with this to the bitter end:
- Nefario gives in --> You can keep you shares, but trading gets frozen and a warning added that this are not real GLBSE shares (so no naive noob buys them
- Nefario "wins" --> You loose you shares and get nothing
- You "win" --> Nefario gets a Scammer tag, you still get nothing, but you destroyed the most promising BTC Stock exchange
(I now I'm overdrawing a little)
Or you just give in and walk out of this with a profit, whats the harm in that?
You might not be up to date but Nefario delisted all of my assets, closed my GLBSE account, took my shares and has my BTC.
That's what I meant when I said: "This whole thing has already escalated to much."
I takes you both to deescalate this, but you have started this and I think its up to you to take the first step.
This will only work out if both of you swallow their pride and work towards an agreement you could both live with.
Of Nefario I got the impression that he would do so (I could be wrong of course).
Just as Note: You have reached a compromise if both partys are unsatisfied with the solution.
Why didn't you listed:
- Nefario gives in --> You can keep you shares, he get other shareholders let him giv his shares in exchange to fake shares to make his words true
But what the hell haw could and why he closed Goat account?
Now I'm afraid of my account to and my shares and BTC.
Should I redeem that?
Goat:
GLBSE is a startup and always when you start something new some mistakes are made.
I take it you did even make a huge Profit (in %) trading these shares so on the contrary to the people who bought this shares from you, no financial damage was done to you.
I don't here the people who where damaged by this scam complaining.
Couldn't you just call this a mistake and leave it be?
Must you really fight this to the bitter end? This whole thing has already escalated to much.
Just think for a moment of the possible outcomes if you go through with this to the bitter end:
(I now I'm overdrawing a little)
Or you just give in and walk out of this with a profit, whats the harm in that?
GLBSE is a startup and always when you start something new some mistakes are made.
I take it you did even make a huge Profit (in %) trading these shares so on the contrary to the people who bought this shares from you, no financial damage was done to you.
I don't here the people who where damaged by this scam complaining.
Couldn't you just call this a mistake and leave it be?
Must you really fight this to the bitter end? This whole thing has already escalated to much.
Just think for a moment of the possible outcomes if you go through with this to the bitter end:
- Nefario gives in --> You can keep you shares, but trading gets frozen and a warning added that this are not real GLBSE shares (so no naive noob buys them
- Nefario "wins" --> You loose you shares and get nothing
- You "win" --> Nefario gets a Scammer tag, you still get nothing, but you destroyed the most promising BTC Stock exchange
(I now I'm overdrawing a little)
Or you just give in and walk out of this with a profit, whats the harm in that?
You might not be up to date but Nefario delisted all of my assets, closed my GLBSE account, took my shares and has my BTC.
That's what I meant when I said: "This whole thing has already escalated to much."
I takes you both to deescalate this, but you have started this and I think its up to you to take the first step.
This will only work out if both of you swallow their pride and work towards an agreement you could both live with.
Of Nefario I got the impression that he would do so (I could be wrong of course).
Just as Note: You have reached a compromise if both partys are unsatisfied with the solution.
Jump to: