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Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 242. (Read 661498 times)

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Guys,

I don't want to point fingers, but please don't be spammy like this fellow. The effort at promoting NEM is appreciated, but the fact is that it's extremely obnoxious and doesn't paint NEM in a good light.



Exactly.

Like I always say, simply mentioning Nem so that it can register in people's head and let them want to learn more about it next time they hear it is much better than preaching to someone why they must get Nem. They'll just see you as a scumbag who's trying to sell them something.

People looking up information about Nem and letting them come to their own uninfluenced conclusion is the best thing in my opinion.

No need to be spammy.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
NEM Enthusiast
Guys,

I don't want to point fingers, but please don't be spammy like this fellow. The effort at promoting NEM is appreciated, but the fact is that it's extremely obnoxious and doesn't paint NEM in a good light.

full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
NEM Enthusiast
I wrote a NEM F.A.Q post on the subreddit if anyone is interested; is there anything I should add/change?

stickied

Awesome, thanks!

By the way, I've sent you a PM.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
My NXT password is very long and I have to keep it in a file. I copy and paste it to the client, but I also have to input a password in my head, inserted somewhere in the pasted password.

Since I have to paste it protects against a key logger, and since I have to type something in it, it protects it from if someone stole it.

I do like the idea of a wallet that I can carry around on a usb that I can open by File > Open. I just don't like the current style of all the clone coins, where the main wallet that it uses is in a hidden AppData folder.
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

Thanks for the advice
I also try to follow your way to do
Good people good luck
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

You don't have to send them anywhere because they are already "anywhere". I don't see why an AE would be more inconvenient with a local wallet.
You said you have a 512bit password. Since it's impossible for you to remember that (at least if you're an average joe) I suppose you store it somewhere right ? In a file maybe ? So you have to carry that file around to use your wallet anywhere. Now tell me in what way is it better to carry that file around than carrying the wallet file around ? Smiley

i dont have to download any programs.. i dont have to do anything other then open client insert passphrase done.. and i know that even if someone hacks my computer they still wont get my coins.. with a wallet file.. if using a desktop client you would need to download the blockchain... and i dont know but do you have to use the same client.. or will a wallet file work on any client?

If someone hacks your computer there is a good chance they will also install keylogger which is all they need to access your wallet.
A wallet file should work on any client since it afaik only contains your private key that you need to access your coins in the blockchain. Downloading the blockchain might also not be necessary since a kind of snapshot system was discussed for NEM. I'm not sure about that anymore though so don't count on that. Even if you have to download the blockchain though - I had to download the NXT blockchain recently - took like 10 minutes. I think we can agree that that is very much endurable especialy considering that this is also roughly the time it takes for a bitcoin tx to be confirmed Smiley
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Safety is the fundamental problem of coins
If the security can not
Who will go and help others to do things without return?

Said is right
I have personal experience
I was stolen coins
Tough
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Safety is the fundamental problem of coins
If the security can not
Who will go and help others to do things without return?

Said is right
I have personal experience
I was stolen coins
Tough
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1001
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

1 byte == 1 sign of ASCII (lets say that it is one alphanumeric sign), then 1 byte == 8 bits. 512/8 == 64 what means that your password should be 64 signs long to call it 512 bit passphrase.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

You don't have to send them anywhere because they are already "anywhere". I don't see why an AE would be more inconvenient with a local wallet.
You said you have a 512bit password. Since it's impossible for you to remember that (at least if you're an average joe) I suppose you store it somewhere right ? In a file maybe ? So you have to carry that file around to use your wallet anywhere. Now tell me in what way is it better to carry that file around than carrying the wallet file around ? Smiley
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Actually, with current technology a password that would take 100s or thousands of years to brute force would be a password that's under 10 characters long. Every time you add one character, the number of years goes up by a very large amount.

A long time ago I created a program that would tell me how long it would take to brute force a password, based on certain conditions.

I just tried it and a password with ten characters, would take 379.72 years to brute force, if a 95 key keyboard was used, and the computer was testing out 5 billion password per second. Which is a lot more than the average computer can do.

If I add one more charter, the it goes from 379.72 years to 36,037.07 years.

12 characters 3.4 million years
13 characters 325.5 million years
14 characters 30 billion years
15 characters, my computer can't calculated, because the total number of unique passwords is too large. But with just 14 character we already went longer than the age of the universe.
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 10
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Safety is the fundamental problem of coins
If the security can not
Who will go and help others to do things without return?
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

Personally I wouldn't call them stupid, just not computer savvy.

But yeah, you always have to consider them. Unfortunately every system will have flaws against the non computer savvy users. For them a centralized option with a corporation is probably the best option. Unfortunately.

that's also why we need lots of tutorials later
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

using brainwallet is about as easy as having your wallet.dat somewhere encrypted online or carry it on a usb-stick similar how you carry your wallet in your pocket.
I wouldn't feel secure with just that brainwalletsolution.
I would suggest to give people lots of choices so everybody can use what they think is best for them.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

Personally I wouldn't call them stupid, just not computer savvy.

But yeah, you always have to consider them. Unfortunately every system will have flaws against the non computer savvy users. For them a centralized option with a corporation is probably the best option. Unfortunately.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

Just to make it clear, we're not talking about having your wallet on some website hosted on some server.

Personally I think the NXT approach of just having a one line password is a bad approach since many people will invariably pick a password that would be in a dictionary list.

I do think that the average person would be safer if they got to put a name and a password to an NXT style model, with a 60+ character long password. Since the average person is not going to be careful about backing things up, and many will lose everything due to a computer failure, or a virus.

Similar to all those people who lost millions of dollars worth of Bitcoins back in the day.  

I wanted to edit, but I guess quoted.
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

edit: offering easy backupsolutions/backupservices for noobs could also be a good idea
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

Just to make it clear, we're not talking about having your wallet on some website hosted on some server.

Personally I think the NXT approach of just having a one line password is a bad approach since many people will invariably pick a password that would be in a dictionary list.

I do think that the average person would be safer if they got to put a name and a password to an NXT style model, with a 60+ character long password. Since the average person is not going to be careful about backing things up, and many will lose everything due to a computer failure, or a virus.

Similar to all those people who lost millions of dollars worth of Bitcoins back in the day. 
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 1001
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink 

Well that's something quite unrelated. Exhanges will always require trust. I never keep anything on exchanges unless I'm actively trading.
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is Cheesy
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason Wink  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.
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