Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 241. (Read 661498 times)
April 03, 2014, 04:35:54 AM
NEM - Nothing Else Matters!
April 03, 2014, 03:55:00 AM
Look at this Nem picture http://www.danhgiakpi.com/nemClient/web/index.html#ajax/dashboard.html
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
That's exactly what the clones would be after. I don't think keeping parts back that are not related to the infrastructure of the network will hamper cloning.
It's not to hamper it, but keep away those popular features.
All the popular features are part of how the coin works
April 03, 2014, 03:44:46 AM
Look at this Nem picture http://www.danhgiakpi.com/nemClient/web/index.html#ajax/dashboard.html
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
That's exactly what the clones would be after. I don't think keeping parts back that are not related to the infrastructure of the network will hamper cloning.
It's not to hamper it, but keep away those popular features.
April 03, 2014, 03:38:59 AM
anybody knows when will be finall stake holder list?
April 03, 2014, 03:11:17 AM
Look at this Nem picture http://www.danhgiakpi.com/nemClient/web/index.html#ajax/dashboard.html
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
breathless. that is amazing.
April 03, 2014, 02:58:29 AM
Look at this Nem picture http://www.danhgiakpi.com/nemClient/web/index.html#ajax/dashboard.html
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
That's exactly what the clones would be after. I don't think keeping parts back that are not related to the infrastructure of the network will hamper cloning.
April 03, 2014, 01:00:41 AM
Look at this Nem picture http://www.danhgiakpi.com/nemClient/web/index.html#ajax/dashboard.html
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
Would it be possible to only release the source code (months after launch) of the everything related to how the coin works, but keep everything else close source for much, much, much longer?
That way the clones will stay very inferior, and not just anyone could copy it to the tune of 21+ coins per week.
April 03, 2014, 12:24:51 AM
As NEM is being build from the ground up, would this be a problem for exchanges to add NEM?
Everything that's not a Bitcoin clone requires custom implementation, just as NXT. Thus it is indeed harder for exchanges to implement Nxt/Nem. Nothing to worry much about, though. Those exchanges that added Nxt earlier will most likely be able to add Nem quickly.
one of the devs should write up a "how to" sort of thing to help exchanges to implement support for nem.. or set a large bounty for the first 2 exchanges with large volume(has to be above x amount of trade per day) that implement it.... perhaps the nem community should work on its own exchange like dgex. i think it may be vital if no exchanges can implement it... but please for the love of god make it look and work better then dgex. it looks dreadfully bad... i saw it in december and instantly thought it was a scam site. set bounty for that too.. also someone should get working on a multipool so it is ready for launch when the coin launches! a good multipool will be a huge boost at the start too! SET A BOUNTY FOR IT!
i will say now i will donate nem towards
1) multipool (50,000 nem) (following conditions must be met)
a) support for all types of mining
b) i will only give the bounty out once it reaches (some one inject a healthy amount of hashing power, nothing ridiculous, but not small ether)
c) very user friendly UI
2) Nem exchange (50,000 NEM) (btc <> Nem) (assuming btc <> Nem isnt supported in client AT LAUNCH)
a) user friendly NOT like dgex
b) safe NOT like cryptsy
3) first and second exchange to support NEM (50,000 Nem first, 30,000 second) (exchanges to include only exchanges with decent volume(someone inject exchanges please)
4) first nem related app on apple i-store and android-store to get (100,000 unique downloads(someone correct me if 100,000 isnt much?) (30,000 nem to each app developer)
a) must have links/info about nem, how to buy nem and what it is for ect...
conditions of bounties subject to change at.
i have many other ideas for bounties so if other people are willing to help with bounties i will do more!
I think we should work with many exchanges to get NEM listed. In addition, we should make our own exchange so that we can control the buying/selling experience.
April 03, 2014, 12:08:30 AM
There are many merits and failings of both brain wallets and desktop wallets. To be honest, I think it's just a matter of personal preference...
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
I'm not one for online wallets to be honest. In fact i'm not one for anything "online" based as i feel i have far less control over the security of whatever it is in question (Whether that be software or, in this case, currency)
A hybrid would be ideal. This to me was the biggest downfall of NXT as online storage has more cons than pro's.
Offspring for Nxt (Win/Mac/Linux) supports local wallets, I believe:
https://github.com/incentivetoken/offspring
True. You can save your coins on your PC with offspring.
April 03, 2014, 12:06:41 AM
Here are a bunch of NEM acronyms. http://www.acronymfinder.com/NEM.html
I got exited when I saw "New Economy" but then saw "Model."
I got exited when I saw "New Economy" but then saw "Model."
April 02, 2014, 10:17:25 PM
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.
i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.
i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.
i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?
i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason
edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.
it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...
well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...
Actually, with current technology a password that would take 100s or thousands of years to brute force would be a password that's under 10 characters long. Every time you add one character, the number of years goes up by a very large amount.
A long time ago I created a program that would tell me how long it would take to brute force a password, based on certain conditions.
I just tried it and a password with ten characters, would take 379.72 years to brute force, if a 95 key keyboard was used, and the computer was testing out 5 billion password per second. Which is a lot more than the average computer can do.
If I add one more charter, the it goes from 379.72 years to 36,037.07 years.
12 characters 3.4 million years
13 characters 325.5 million years
14 characters 30 billion years
15 characters, my computer can't calculated, because the total number of unique passwords is too large. But with just 14 character we already went longer than the age of the universe.
Those are quite big numbers, maybe scares brute forcers away
Unless they think that "nope, the users won't use 95 keys, only a-z and 0-9, and there is 5 million accounts ... it is enough to get one of those"
How big are the numbers then?
When NXT accounts were hacked, was there any brute force case or was they all hacked by stolen passwords or the password was some "movie phrase" or such?
movie phrases i think.. dictionary words ect... im quite happy with my passphrase then lol
I only use Bruce Willis movie lines backwards and translated into Swahili first.
April 02, 2014, 06:32:54 PM
There are many merits and failings of both brain wallets and desktop wallets. To be honest, I think it's just a matter of personal preference...
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
I'm not one for online wallets to be honest. In fact i'm not one for anything "online" based as i feel i have far less control over the security of whatever it is in question (Whether that be software or, in this case, currency)
A hybrid would be ideal. This to me was the biggest downfall of NXT as online storage has more cons than pro's.
Offspring for Nxt (Win/Mac/Linux) supports local wallets, I believe:
https://github.com/incentivetoken/offspring
April 02, 2014, 05:42:30 PM
There are many merits and failings of both brain wallets and desktop wallets. To be honest, I think it's just a matter of personal preference...
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
I'm not one for online wallets to be honest. In fact i'm not one for anything "online" based as i feel i have far less control over the security of whatever it is in question (Whether that be software or, in this case, currency)
A hybrid would be ideal. This to me was the biggest downfall of NXT as online storage has more cons than pro's.
April 02, 2014, 04:12:00 PM
OMG. I know, It is very tempting, but dont leave your jobs yet, just keep on licking display
April 02, 2014, 03:56:24 PM
What's with this link?
Is this the client?
This looks pretty amazing.
April 02, 2014, 03:20:14 PM
When NXT accounts were hacked, was there any brute force case or was they all hacked by stolen passwords or the password was some "movie phrase" or such?
Quote from: Dr. Evil
1.5% of NXT accounts are trivially crackable with a 15 line script and a widely-available passphrase list (the rockyou leak dataset).
I've let my script keep running on more lists since then and at current measure have recovered the passphrases of a little more than 3% of all accounts that have ever been used. Since genesis ~8M NXT has been sent to these "weak" accounts.
As I pointed out in my original post, my motivation for doing this was to investigate the root cause of the rash of thefts that had been reported (since I suspected weak passphrases) as well as prod the devs to drop the brainwallet-based key management scheme as the default option. I actually cracked the genesis account a few days ago but originally thought my code was just buggy when I saw it's balance was negative ... LOL.
As a side note, I should point out that widespread knowledge of the genesis account key isn't a security issue per se. Although I'd advise devs to be defensive moving forward about the possibility of integer overflow/underflow whenever dealing with amounts/fees now that the whole world has access to an account with a negative balance.
I've let my script keep running on more lists since then and at current measure have recovered the passphrases of a little more than 3% of all accounts that have ever been used. Since genesis ~8M NXT has been sent to these "weak" accounts.
As I pointed out in my original post, my motivation for doing this was to investigate the root cause of the rash of thefts that had been reported (since I suspected weak passphrases) as well as prod the devs to drop the brainwallet-based key management scheme as the default option. I actually cracked the genesis account a few days ago but originally thought my code was just buggy when I saw it's balance was negative ... LOL.
As a side note, I should point out that widespread knowledge of the genesis account key isn't a security issue per se. Although I'd advise devs to be defensive moving forward about the possibility of integer overflow/underflow whenever dealing with amounts/fees now that the whole world has access to an account with a negative balance.
April 02, 2014, 03:16:53 PM
we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.
i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.
i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.
i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?
i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason
edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.
it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...
well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...
Actually, with current technology a password that would take 100s or thousands of years to brute force would be a password that's under 10 characters long. Every time you add one character, the number of years goes up by a very large amount.
A long time ago I created a program that would tell me how long it would take to brute force a password, based on certain conditions.
I just tried it and a password with ten characters, would take 379.72 years to brute force, if a 95 key keyboard was used, and the computer was testing out 5 billion password per second. Which is a lot more than the average computer can do.
If I add one more charter, the it goes from 379.72 years to 36,037.07 years.
12 characters 3.4 million years
13 characters 325.5 million years
14 characters 30 billion years
15 characters, my computer can't calculated, because the total number of unique passwords is too large. But with just 14 character we already went longer than the age of the universe.
Those are quite big numbers, maybe scares brute forcers away
Unless they think that "nope, the users won't use 95 keys, only a-z and 0-9, and there is 5 million accounts ... it is enough to get one of those"
How big are the numbers then?
When NXT accounts were hacked, was there any brute force case or was they all hacked by stolen passwords or the password was some "movie phrase" or such?
April 02, 2014, 03:09:44 PM
There are many merits and failings of both brain wallets and desktop wallets. To be honest, I think it's just a matter of personal preference...
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it's pretty much a finality that NEM will be using a desktop wallet system. A poll on the forum a while back, plus a general browse on forums, shows that desktop wallets are preferred by the vast majority of people.
Perhaps the fact that this discussion is happening indicates that a new wallet system is needed, a hybrid of brain and desktop wallets. Perhaps something for the NEM developers to think about in the future?
April 02, 2014, 03:09:39 PM
April 02, 2014, 03:00:38 PM
My NXT password is very long and I have to keep it in a file. I copy and paste it to the client, but I also have to input a password in my head, inserted somewhere in the pasted password.
Since I have to paste it protects against a key logger, and since I have to type something in it, it protects it from if someone stole it.
I do like the idea of a wallet that I can carry around on a usb that I can open by File > Open. I just don't like the current style of all the clone coins, where the main wallet that it uses is in a hidden AppData folder.
Since I have to paste it protects against a key logger, and since I have to type something in it, it protects it from if someone stole it.
I do like the idea of a wallet that I can carry around on a usb that I can open by File > Open. I just don't like the current style of all the clone coins, where the main wallet that it uses is in a hidden AppData folder.
bad idea.. should download keypass save your password in that.. save the keepass database file on a usb along with the master password for keepass... open client.. open keepass.. open keepass password file.. insert keepass masterpass.. copy client pass into client.. do transactions and remove usb... its awkward but its the safest thing to do at the moment i think..
actually thats clever about the injected simple password from your head somewhere in the passphrase.. il start doing that lol
keeloggers have clip board monitors so its not safe unless you use keepass or similar software
What I really want to do is just create a virtual machine for Nem, NXT. Only used for to send and receive coins, that way there's almost a zero percent chance of getting a key logger sneaked in because I downloaded the wrong thing.
Or better yet, a really cheap, computer, since a keylogger will still be able to log the keys I punch in in a virtual machine.
There's also software that encrypts the keys a person presses, not sure how that works though.
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