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Topic: New currency from BRICS countries (Read 1095 times)

legendary
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February 20, 2024, 10:44:17 PM
Quote from: harapan link=topic=5446977.msg63688627#msg6368862o7 date=1708360715
The BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) have demonstrated their intentions to abandon the USD as a global reserve currency.There's no need for debate because no matter what,people still choose the US dollars to BRICS.
The BRICS is yet to stand on its own and manifest properly.The creation of BRICS cannot decline the work force or influence of the US dollar.

People will choose the currency that's most convenient for them. The USD is the preferred currency of the public because of its position as the world's reserve currency. But that won't last for long, especially when with the weaponization of the USD. Countries are slowly moving away to other currencies that are more open for global trade.

If BRICS' new currency gathers the attention of countries worldwide, it could easily displace the USD as the world's next reserve currency. Backing its value with Gold is the first step towards achieving said goal. I would be surprised if BRICS goes as far as backing its own currency with Bitcoin. That would be even better for the world economy. We can't predict what will happen in the future, so lets hope for the best. Grin
sr. member
Activity: 1736
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February 19, 2024, 12:38:35 PM
Couple of hours ago there is in news on Twitter saying BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) are developing a new currency. It was mentioned by State Duma Deputy Chairmen btw.

As I can see all these things to manipulate BTC right? What are your thoughts about this?

The BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) have demonstrated their intentions to abandon the USD as a global reserve currency.There's no need for debate because no matter what,people still choose the US dollars to BRICS.
The BRICS is yet to stand on its own and manifest properly.The creation of BRICS cannot decline the work force or influence of the US dollar.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
July 25, 2023, 06:12:14 AM
the fact that many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade in recent years is showing that the dollar is gradually losing its position.
Keep in mind that they haven't "eliminated" dollar from their international trades, they have decreased its usage. For example China as the biggest bagholder of US debt has dumped $175 billion of it last year but they are still bagholding more of it.

As you correctly pointed out, this is a gradual move where every country goes through the dedollarisation process.

The 15th BRICS summit is going to be very interesting which will be held on 22 – 24 August (about a month from now) and some are saying the BRICS new currency will be revealed then. This could potentially have a significant effect on the ongoing dedollarisation around the globe.

China USD reserves are around 3 Trillon USD, so China itself will suffer huge blow if dollar collapse unless they get rid of there all USD holdings. Meanwhile there are news that 40 more countries are in line to join BRICS and this is enough to prove that the platform is getting popular globally. The most interesting part is that gulf countries are also taking interest in joining BRICS and if that happens then what will be fate of billion of USD that belongs to gulf countries but residing in US banks?
Yep, to be precise, 22 countries have already submitted official applications for membership in the BRICS and about the same number of informal applications. If all these requests are granted, BRICS will become not only the largest economic alliance in the world, but will also take a dominant position. I have already said earlier that the most interesting moment in the upcoming BRICS summit will not be the creation of a common BRICS currency (this is a very difficult project to implement and a matter for a more distant future), but in what architecture the BRICS will expand, because the issue of expansion itself has actually already been decided. Simply put, will the expansion continue in a peer-to-peer manner, as was already the case with South Africa's entry into the alliance, or will it be a second-level architectural solution. We'll see soon.


About BRICS dominance is a very funny joke.
No, I understand that a lot of people, instead of improving the life and economy of their country, are living the dream of "the collapse of the USA", and constantly consuming their products, goods and technologies, thus supporting the USA Smiley
I don't understand how people try to make wishful thinking so primitively.

Dominance is possible if someone/something is more powerful, stable, and wealthy.

Now just look at this "alliance" - It seems that only India's economic situation is more or less good today. And the rest are either global problems or fakes Smiley
China is a huge internal economic problem. They found a way out, to pull the yuan on all "BRICS test subjects", exporting inflation and problems to them.
Russia is just a fake country and a pariah.
Brazil - wave after wave of economic crises are hitting the economy
If I am wrong - correct me, and provide data on the stability of other potential participants of this "union to save china" Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
July 24, 2023, 02:40:03 PM
As much as I like bitcoin but it is not yet ready for mass adoption, the price of it is too unreliable for such a large long term commitment like what BRICS countries are making. Imagine if you buy a million barrels of oil (what oil tankers usually carry) worth $80 million in bitcoin and the price drops by 10% which is a normal thing in bitcoin. That is $8 million loss. That's not favorable.
However a centralized currency created and controlled by them is a lot more reliable because they dictate its value (exchange rate) so it can be kept fixed.

At this point bitcoin is good for small size trades and as a small portion of the reserved assets of the country.

Sadly, that's the hard truth. BTC is extremely-volatile, which means you can either win big or lose it all in an instant. BRICS countries need something stable that would help them move money across borders with ease. The only logical option would be to make their own currency that would be under their complete control. I'd imagine the new currency would be digital, making use of Blockchain tech for cross-border payments. And backing it with Gold, would make sure the currency will retain its purchasing power no matter what. Similar to what the US did in the old days (except Blockchain tech didn't exist back then).

Whenever BRICS' efforts to displace the USD as the world's reserve currency will become a success or a failure, it's yet to be seen. It's going to take years, if not, decades before this happens. Either way, BTC will keep soaring towards new heights thanks to its decentralized and censorship-resistant design. Just my opinion Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 966
Merit: 306
July 23, 2023, 11:44:30 PM
P.S. Is there any source that shows China's reserve currencies explicitly separated by their type? Because it seems like all sources including the state administration report an aggregated value of all assets (not just dollars) converted to dollar, it even states the change in value is due to "asset price changes" and I know some sources like worldbank reporting the $3.17 trillion include China's gold reserves in it.
Gold reserves by country. China is a first nation in the table and their gold reserves is more than double of Japan reserves. They have 2,068.36 tonnes than 845.97 of Japan.
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
July 22, 2023, 03:44:45 PM
P.S. Is there any source that shows China's reserve currencies explicitly separated by their type? Because it seems like all sources including the state administration report an aggregated value of all assets (not just dollars) converted to dollar, it even states the change in value is due to "asset price changes" and I know some sources like worldbank reporting the $3.17 trillion include China's gold reserves in it.
In short, no.

In more detail, China is a very mysterious country with a closed economy that is difficult to externally analyze. There are quite good reasons to believe that in addition to the huge official gold and foreign exchange reserve of $3+ trillion, China has a commensurate shadow gold and foreign exchange reserve, which China uses to artificially maintain an undervalued yuan and actively spends on colossal infrastructure projects, such as building millionaire cities "for growth". By some estimates, China consumes 40 times more concrete than the United States, with comparable economies.
hero member
Activity: 2464
Merit: 519
July 22, 2023, 02:43:36 PM
It appears that the US is gradually recognizing the potential threat to its economy, but it seems to be resorting to its usual approach of pressuring African countries, warning them about potential consequences if they don't comply. The US has assigned Nuland to visit South Africa before the upcoming BRICS meeting, aiming to convince them to align with their position. Additionally, four more countries have joined, bringing the total number of supporters to 44.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
July 22, 2023, 01:09:34 PM
~
China USD reserves are around 3 Trillon USD, so China itself will suffer huge blow if dollar collapse unless they get rid of there all USD holdings. Meanwhile there are news that 40 more countries are in line to join BRICS and this is enough to prove that the platform is getting popular globally. The most interesting part is that gulf countries are also taking interest in joining BRICS and if that happens then what will be fate of billion of USD that belongs to gulf countries but residing in US banks?
Interest in joining BRICS from all countries even from US-slave countries like France, shows the New World Order and the weakening of United States and the fiat they keep printing called dollar! However, this "weakening" is slowly happening and I don't think the chances of a catastrophic collapse is that high right now hence bag holding a lot of dollars in reserve while slowly dumping it as China is doing is the low risk move.

P.S. Is there any source that shows China's reserve currencies explicitly separated by their type? Because it seems like all sources including the state administration report an aggregated value of all assets (not just dollars) converted to dollar, it even states the change in value is due to "asset price changes" and I know some sources like worldbank reporting the $3.17 trillion include China's gold reserves in it.
sr. member
Activity: 966
Merit: 306
July 22, 2023, 07:50:03 AM
As much as I like bitcoin but it is not yet ready for mass adoption, the price of it is too unreliable for such a large long term commitment like what BRICS countries are making. Imagine if you buy a million barrels of oil (what oil tankers usually carry) worth $80 million in bitcoin and the price drops by 10% which is a normal thing in bitcoin. That is $8 million loss. That's not favorable.
Taking care of an individual capital and investment is more easily than doing it for a nation. I can stake my capital, accept risk and afford to lose it but honestly I can not do it with my national treasury. Especially if I don't host a public referendum for that decision. A national treasury can not be staked with a very volatile asset like Bitcoin.

Quote
However a centralized currency created and controlled by them is a lot more reliable because they dictate its value (exchange rate) so it can be kept fixed.
Governments can control their fiat currrencies, CBDCs and adjust their policies to support their currencies. They don't control inflation well but at least they will feel safer when they can control their currencies with their power and policies. With Bitcoin, they know that they can not control it because of its high decentralization.

Quote
At this point bitcoin is good for small size trades and as a small portion of the reserved assets of the country.
I agree with you that a small portion of a national treasury as a reserved asset is acceptable by assessing risk.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
July 22, 2023, 04:35:38 AM
I was reading about this in many news websites, I was actually thinking that its exeggerated/fake news but it even hits bitcointalk, I guess its true now? I think this can deeply effect future of financial markets because BRICS countries are very very populated and their economies are very big. Their specific currency could become world's third important currency in future maybe passing Pound. But I don't think it will cause massive dedollarization soon. Financial relations are all executed through American Dollars for decades.

It will absolutely take a long time for that to happen. The system will have to adjust for it as it will be a long process and change. However, it will mostly not affect the bitcoin system as widely as others may say, after all this change is mostly a political talk and will focus on that for awhile.
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
July 22, 2023, 03:15:38 AM
the fact that many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade in recent years is showing that the dollar is gradually losing its position.
Keep in mind that they haven't "eliminated" dollar from their international trades, they have decreased its usage. For example China as the biggest bagholder of US debt has dumped $175 billion of it last year but they are still bagholding more of it.

As you correctly pointed out, this is a gradual move where every country goes through the dedollarisation process.

The 15th BRICS summit is going to be very interesting which will be held on 22 – 24 August (about a month from now) and some are saying the BRICS new currency will be revealed then. This could potentially have a significant effect on the ongoing dedollarisation around the globe.

China USD reserves are around 3 Trillon USD, so China itself will suffer huge blow if dollar collapse unless they get rid of there all USD holdings. Meanwhile there are news that 40 more countries are in line to join BRICS and this is enough to prove that the platform is getting popular globally. The most interesting part is that gulf countries are also taking interest in joining BRICS and if that happens then what will be fate of billion of USD that belongs to gulf countries but residing in US banks?
Yep, to be precise, 22 countries have already submitted official applications for membership in the BRICS and about the same number of informal applications. If all these requests are granted, BRICS will become not only the largest economic alliance in the world, but will also take a dominant position. I have already said earlier that the most interesting moment in the upcoming BRICS summit will not be the creation of a common BRICS currency (this is a very difficult project to implement and a matter for a more distant future), but in what architecture the BRICS will expand, because the issue of expansion itself has actually already been decided. Simply put, will the expansion continue in a peer-to-peer manner, as was already the case with South Africa's entry into the alliance, or will it be a second-level architectural solution. We'll see soon.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 561
July 22, 2023, 02:33:04 AM
the fact that many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade in recent years is showing that the dollar is gradually losing its position.
Keep in mind that they haven't "eliminated" dollar from their international trades, they have decreased its usage. For example China as the biggest bagholder of US debt has dumped $175 billion of it last year but they are still bagholding more of it.

As you correctly pointed out, this is a gradual move where every country goes through the dedollarisation process.

The 15th BRICS summit is going to be very interesting which will be held on 22 – 24 August (about a month from now) and some are saying the BRICS new currency will be revealed then. This could potentially have a significant effect on the ongoing dedollarisation around the globe.

China USD reserves are around 3 Trillon USD, so China itself will suffer huge blow if dollar collapse unless they get rid of there all USD holdings. Meanwhile there are news that 40 more countries are in line to join BRICS and this is enough to prove that the platform is getting popular globally. The most interesting part is that gulf countries are also taking interest in joining BRICS and if that happens then what will be fate of billion of USD that belongs to gulf countries but residing in US banks?
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
July 22, 2023, 02:12:20 AM
....

Because as long as you can answer my question, you will get the question you are asking me.

Well, as pooya87 said, I'm not correct in saying that they have eliminated USD in international trade, but they are reducing their reliance on it and things are still going. You are just trying to argue and always think you are right, you have no proof that what you say will definitely happen. Therefore, I do not want to argue at length because everyone has their own arguments and stubbornness, even if we are wrong, we will never admit it. So I like to let time answer all, I don't rush to conclude who is right and who is wrong, I have enough time to wait with you.

That's the problem - you're wrong Smiley
They have NOT eliminated dollars from international trade. They still trade with the rest of the world in dollars. Because, for example, China cannot buy Western technology for yuan. And Russia can't buy anything of quality for their rubles Smiley)
And if you do not read the ramblings of "experts" like the one you quoted. like the one you quoted, and really study the subject area, you will realize that there was a partial replacement and not by the common currency of BRICS, but by yuan, and not to replace the dollar, but to "pump" the problems of the Chinese economy on these unfortunates Smiley)
PS. I also recommend to study, for example, the formation of China's reserves, where the growth of investments in U.S. securities, as well as hysterical attempts of Russia to get at least some currency instead of yuan and rupees.
I applaud India - to "divorce" Russia in such a way is a financial show of world scale Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3542
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Cashback 15%
July 21, 2023, 11:52:03 PM
Couple of hours ago there is in news on Twitter saying BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) are developing a new currency. It was mentioned by State Duma Deputy Chairmen btw.

As I can see all these things to manipulate BTC right? What are your thoughts about this?

BRICS wants to develop their own currency because they really think that it is time for them to be free from the dominance of the US dollar, in my opinion it has nothing to do with BTC or to manipulate the crypto market, because their main goal is to destroy the dominance of the USD. You can read about it in this article https://cointelegraph.com/news/russia-talks-up-prospects-of-brics-countries-developing-new-currency

I agree. This is more on the political side now. And it's heavily being discussed for a long period now. I think OP thought that a new currency will affect BTC somehow but it's just way out of the system as it is more of a political matter.
hero member
Activity: 1722
Merit: 895
July 21, 2023, 11:10:23 PM
You should not underestimate India, although they are not comparable to Russia and China economically and technologically. But they have the second largest population in the world and will soon surpass China, so they also play an important role in product consumption as well as an abundant labor force. It can be said that the future of BRICS is quite bright if they do not disagree internally on any issues.
It is not meant to belittle, but economic power can affect the geopolitical conditions of each country and look further at how the conditions of countries that do not have economic power are treated. The population size does not affect whether or not developing countries and in fact a large population will hinder economic processes from running perpendicularly, unskilled work or labor will only be needed differently in other countries and in their own country it is not certain that they will get a decent job.

India cannot be equated with China which has developed so much and China's economic power is so strong because they control several products to the Asian market, China is also strong in terms of technology and many scientists who were born there have succeeded in creating miracles that have never been discovered by other countries.

Breaking USD dominance is not easy as it has maintained that position for the past 100 years, but not impossible. Nothing lasts forever, the fact that many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade in recent years is showing that the dollar is gradually losing its position.
Not talking about the possibility or not, but the opportunity to reach the dollar domination stage will be difficult to break in the near future. Even though many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade, the power of the dollar is still very strong and this is proof that breaking the domination of the dollar is not something easy. Optimism is indeed important for some countries that have joined the BRISC, but they need to strengthen their economy first to compete under any conditions.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
July 21, 2023, 05:07:48 PM
Keep in mind that they haven't "eliminated" dollar from their international trades, they have decreased its usage. For example China as the biggest bagholder of US debt has dumped $175 billion of it last year but they are still bagholding more of it.

As you correctly pointed out, this is a gradual move where every country goes through the dedollarisation process.

The 15th BRICS summit is going to be very interesting which will be held on 22 – 24 August (about a month from now) and some are saying the BRICS new currency will be revealed then. This could potentially have a significant effect on the ongoing dedollarisation around the globe.

I think it will take decades before BRICS countries defeat the US Dollar for good. The "greenback" is still too powerful to go away that easily. But I'd say this is the beginning of the end for US hegemony. I've thought BRICS would use BTC as their main currency especially to avoid sanctions and whatnot. But now I see that won't be the case with their plans to make a currency of their own backed by Gold. Whenever this will become a success or a failure, it's yet to be seen.

I don't think this will have a negative impact over BTC, especially when the Bitcoin blockchain is decentralized. It's likely BTC will survive alongside a basket of Fiat currencies for generations. Who knows how BRICS' actions will shape the future? Just my thoughts Grin


I think the scenario described is from the realm of fiction. And not even science fiction.
Reasons? Simple - none of the BRICS countries, or even all of them together, will be able to compete with the US and its economy.
And especially if you look into the eyes of truth and realize that all the BRICS attempts to get away from the dollar, at best, will turn out to be an approach to the yuan, and the import of Chinese economic problems, or rather pumping them to countries that have left the normal international settlements, going to the "monopoly" yuan from China.
Of course, we can assume a certain situation with the total collapse of the U.S. economy.... But rather the economies of BRICS members will show themselves from the bad side, and by the way they already show themselves - today Russia, China, Brazil,... have large-scale problems. And no one is going to save them or subsidize them

And Bitcoin, with its volatility, uneven distribution of mining (you can say monopolization by some market participants) - will not be able to become a stable and secured currency.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
July 21, 2023, 10:55:07 AM
I've thought BRICS would use BTC as their main currency especially to avoid sanctions and whatnot. But now I see that won't be the case with their plans to make a currency of their own backed by Gold.
As much as I like bitcoin but it is not yet ready for mass adoption, the price of it is too unreliable for such a large long term commitment like what BRICS countries are making. Imagine if you buy a million barrels of oil (what oil tankers usually carry) worth $80 million in bitcoin and the price drops by 10% which is a normal thing in bitcoin. That is $8 million loss. That's not favorable.
However a centralized currency created and controlled by them is a lot more reliable because they dictate its value (exchange rate) so it can be kept fixed.

At this point bitcoin is good for small size trades and as a small portion of the reserved assets of the country.

Yes, the risk will be too much. Bitcoin goes up and down, and it would be too much of a loss if countries starts adapting it as a formal currency. Hence, it is truly more favorable and proper to have a new currency compared to adapting bitcoin currency. Additionally, after all, the new development of currency is more of a way for BRICS to ultimately remove themselves from US colonialism.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
July 21, 2023, 10:45:38 AM
I've thought BRICS would use BTC as their main currency especially to avoid sanctions and whatnot. But now I see that won't be the case with their plans to make a currency of their own backed by Gold.
As much as I like bitcoin but it is not yet ready for mass adoption, the price of it is too unreliable for such a large long term commitment like what BRICS countries are making. Imagine if you buy a million barrels of oil (what oil tankers usually carry) worth $80 million in bitcoin and the price drops by 10% which is a normal thing in bitcoin. That is $8 million loss. That's not favorable.
However a centralized currency created and controlled by them is a lot more reliable because they dictate its value (exchange rate) so it can be kept fixed.

At this point bitcoin is good for small size trades and as a small portion of the reserved assets of the country.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1022
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
July 21, 2023, 09:23:30 AM
....
Breaking USD dominance is not easy as it has maintained that position for the past 100 years, but not impossible. Nothing lasts forever, the fact that many countries have eliminated the dollar in international trade in recent years is showing that the dollar is gradually losing its position.

Tell me please - what is the value and essence of the goal of "breaking the dollar" ? What and why are you trying to achieve ? Any action always has a goal, and there is an understanding of the goal - the benefits or advantages of achieving it.
Or simplified:
What is wrong (specific examples, and arguments) when the dollar is strong and is the currency of the world economy.
What becomes good when someone, as you put it, "breaks the dominance of the dollar" ?
Oh, and one more thing - I'm pretty sure that "dollar domination" has a very good reason. Could you please explain more - what in your understanding would be the criteria for "domination" of another currency?  And let's try to determine - who can take over this domination ? Believe me - we are waiting for a lot of interesting discoveries about the world economy ! Smiley

So please tell me why the US always defies all tricks to maintain the position of USD? What is their goal in maintaining USD dominance? What's wrong with other coins trying to surpass USD and replace it? And if you think it's strong enough, why should you worry when so many other currencies are trying to break that dominance? Like bitcoin dominance, why there are thousands of altcoins trying to topple it, but most investors never worry about it?

There are many interesting things waiting for us, why don't we wait for time to answer them all? Why are we always trying to prove ourselves right?


Why don't you answer my question first and then I'll answer yours ?  Because it's not nice to have a dialog like this, going away from answering a question and asking your own Smiley Let's stick to the logic of dialog. And so - I am waiting for your answer. Preferably reasoned.

Regarding "let's wait" and "Why do we always try to prove ourselves right" - there is such a concept as dialog, exchange of opinions. This is exactly it Smiley Based on experience and knowledge, some events are possible to model and predict some things I can in advance and refute erroneous opinions...

By the way, you already have an erroneous opinion - "the fact that many countries have excluded the dollar from international trade". This is your erroneous opinion based on incorrect data or distorted information. Would you like me to prove it? Easy - give me a list of countries you mentioned in this "fact" ? Smiley

Because as long as you can answer my question, you will get the question you are asking me.

Well, as pooya87 said, I'm not correct in saying that they have eliminated USD in international trade, but they are reducing their reliance on it and things are still going. You are just trying to argue and always think you are right, you have no proof that what you say will definitely happen. Therefore, I do not want to argue at length because everyone has their own arguments and stubbornness, even if we are wrong, we will never admit it. So I like to let time answer all, I don't rush to conclude who is right and who is wrong, I have enough time to wait with you.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1363
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
July 21, 2023, 06:25:05 AM
Keep in mind that they haven't "eliminated" dollar from their international trades, they have decreased its usage. For example China as the biggest bagholder of US debt has dumped $175 billion of it last year but they are still bagholding more of it.

As you correctly pointed out, this is a gradual move where every country goes through the dedollarisation process.

The 15th BRICS summit is going to be very interesting which will be held on 22 – 24 August (about a month from now) and some are saying the BRICS new currency will be revealed then. This could potentially have a significant effect on the ongoing dedollarisation around the globe.

I think it will take decades before BRICS countries defeat the US Dollar for good. The "greenback" is still too powerful to go away that easily. But I'd say this is the beginning of the end for US hegemony. I've thought BRICS would use BTC as their main currency especially to avoid sanctions and whatnot. But now I see that won't be the case with their plans to make a currency of their own backed by Gold. Whenever this will become a success or a failure, it's yet to be seen.

I don't think this will have a negative impact over BTC, especially when the Bitcoin blockchain is decentralized. It's likely BTC will survive alongside a basket of Fiat currencies for generations. Who knows how BRICS' actions will shape the future? Just my thoughts Grin
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