[NEW CURRENCY] Maria 2.0 was banned, here is her proof. The birth of Bytecoin! - page 13.

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 04, 2013, 12:30:06 PM

I understand the basics of how merged mining works. The detail I am missing is what has to change in the code to make merged mining possible, and why does that preclude continuing with the existing block chain?

In order to change the way the code works, the blockchain needs to be forked. It seems you don't know entirely what the purpose of the blockchain is. Not only is the blockchain a ledger, but it is also a reflection of the bytecoin daemon that we all run (bytecoind). When we change bytecoind, we no longer comply to the set of instructions and rules that the current blockchain is on, so when we mine our own blocks, they are mined with new code in a new bytecoind, and since other people don't have that bytecoind, they will continue along with their own blockchain. Until most of the network switches over, there would be two different blockchains. Do you understand?

Tl;dr to change the coin, we need to change our software (bytecoind file specifically), which would change the blockchain.

Walter Rothbard

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: ProfMac on June 04, 2013, 10:45:51 AM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 04, 2013, 08:45:10 AM

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in. What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork? Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

I asked about merged mining on #bitcoin-dev yesterday.

They provided this link to help explain merged mining: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/273/how-does-merged-mining-work

They say that both merged mining implementations, p2pool and another, have some problems.
They say that merged mining does provide a way to bring lots of hashpower to a new coin.
They have the view that alt-coins only have legitimacy in the context of expanding bitcoin.
They are deeply suspicious of most alt-coins as a scam to get noobs to buy snake oil.

I understand the basics of how merged mining works. The detail I am missing is what has to change in the code to make merged mining possible, and why does that preclude continuing with the existing block chain?

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 04, 2013, 08:45:10 AM

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in. What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork? Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

I asked about merged mining on #bitcoin-dev yesterday.

They provided this link to help explain merged mining: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/273/how-does-merged-mining-work

They say that both merged mining implementations, p2pool and another, have some problems.
They say that merged mining does provide a way to bring lots of hashpower to a new coin.
They have the view that alt-coins only have legitimacy in the context of expanding bitcoin.
They are deeply suspicious of most alt-coins as a scam to get noobs to buy snake oil.

Walter Rothbard

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in. What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork? Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

Walter Rothbard

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: ProfMac on June 03, 2013, 08:33:09 PM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 02, 2013, 10:38:54 PM

I will be sticking with original Bytecoin and will not go to any forks of the code; the only code changes I will accept are updates from the main Bitcoin source.

Do you mine?

I will be mining at some point in the future. I don't have all the hardware I need yet.

Walter Rothbard

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:10:22 PM

Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin.

Will ASIC users not be able to mine Bytecoin?

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: movellan on June 03, 2013, 05:35:04 PM

ProfMac,

Correct. The evidence suggests that someone with an ASIC/serverfarm has kicked the difficulty up at least twice, once on 4-08 at block 14112, where diff jumped from 4096.032 to 16384.25, and again on 5-06 at block 18144 where diff jumped from 8948.631 to it's present 35794.675.

What this new group proposes to do by forking the blockchain is to form a pool that gives them the advantage in mining and leaves the rest of us with our fly unzipped and nowhere to go.

Thanks for the lead.

At block 16128, on 2013-05-03 22:20:02, a new difficulty of 8,196 was begun.
1 day later, at block 17108 2013-05-04 22:20:08
That is 980 blocks / day, or about 4X what it should be.

In the 30 days or so since block 16128, there should be 7,200 blocks mined to bring us to about block 23,328.
The blockchain is behind 4,997 blocks.

I can't get a genrate from #bitcoin-otc right now.

----
There are two things I don't know:
a. How fast can you generate blocks with 1.2 GH/s at difficulty 8,196
b. Can you spoof the time to the miner.

The thing you can do if there is a rogue and hostile ASIC is to simply generate a block with a timestamp each 10 minutes, starting with
block 16129, on 2013-05-03 22:30:00. Include all the transactions that are valid on your fork, and simply invalidate all of the pirates mined blocks. Keep the blocks paced at the 10 minute rate, and when you get to 18,332 you have done a takeover. The date will be far in the past, and some transactions will appear to be in the future to the block-chain.

Then, you mine a block for each transaction that needs to be confirmed.

When you are caught up, the rate is low and karma is restored.

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

If you mean do the existing transactions change? No nothing changes..

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: bitpop on June 02, 2013, 11:09:45 PM

Well he has a right. Our blockchains will just fight. Depending on how many people join me. This is democracy and Bitcoin thought of everything. If he isn't putting money where his mouth is and mining, he will lose.

Will the existing block chain stay valid?
Are the branches of the fork exclusive?

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 02, 2013, 10:38:54 PM

I will be sticking with original Bytecoin and will not go to any forks of the code; the only code changes I will accept are updates from the main Bitcoin source.

Do you mine?

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

Nothin really just localhost, user, pass
what error are you getting?

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:23:40 PM

cgminer 3.2, 3 lancelots

server=1
daemon=1
rpcuser=bteuser
rpcpassword=pass
rpctimeout=60
rpcport=7352
port=7353
maxconnections=20
printtoconsole=1

what cgminer flags do you use?

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

cgminer 3.2, 3 lancelots

server=1
daemon=1
rpcuser=bteuser
rpcpassword=pass
rpctimeout=60
rpcport=7352
port=7353
maxconnections=20
printtoconsole=1

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:13:22 PM

I'm assuming so. All the blocks found were mine.
http://screencast.com/t/BgtR1NlSa

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 06:11:35 PM

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:10:22 PM

I am the ONLY one who mined 3 blocks in the last 3 days. Without merged mining transactions can't even happen. Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin. How exactly will you use bytecoin without transactions being able to confirm? It is useless. Right now I am putting 1.2 ghs for respect but if merged mining fails, I will be removing it. Attacks will continue and no one will be mining bytecoin when they can mine btc, nmc, ixc and nmc all together as I do.

This is a last ditch effort to save bytecoin. Again, how will you use it when no one is mining? You can't send bytecoin without blocks.

Wait are you the network's only hashpower? I will gladly mine some too if you are.

What is your solo mining setup. I cannot seem to get mine running. What miner, flags on bytecoin shortcut, and everything else.

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

I'm assuming so. All the blocks found were mine.
http://screencast.com/t/BgtR1NlSa

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 06:11:35 PM

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:10:22 PM

I am the ONLY one who mined 3 blocks in the last 3 days. Without merged mining transactions can't even happen. Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin. How exactly will you use bytecoin without transactions being able to confirm? It is useless. Right now I am putting 1.2 ghs for respect but if merged mining fails, I will be removing it. Attacks will continue and no one will be mining bytecoin when they can mine btc, nmc, ixc and nmc all together as I do.

This is a last ditch effort to save bytecoin. Again, how will you use it when no one is mining? You can't send bytecoin without blocks.

Wait are you the network's only hashpower? I will gladly mine some too if you are.

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: bitpop on June 03, 2013, 06:10:22 PM

I am the ONLY one who mined 3 blocks in the last 3 days. Without merged mining transactions can't even happen. Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin. How exactly will you use bytecoin without transactions being able to confirm? It is useless. Right now I am putting 1.2 ghs for respect but if merged mining fails, I will be removing it. Attacks will continue and no one will be mining bytecoin when they can mine btc, nmc, ixc and nmc all together as I do.

This is a last ditch effort to save bytecoin. Again, how will you use it when no one is mining? You can't send bytecoin without blocks.

Wait are you the network's only hashpower? I will gladly mine some too if you are.

bitpop

legendary

Activity: 2912

Merit: 1060

I am the ONLY one who mined 3 blocks in the last 3 days. Without merged mining transactions can't even happen. Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin. How exactly will you use bytecoin without transactions being able to confirm? It is useless. Right now I am putting 1.2 ghs for respect but if merged mining fails, I will be removing it. Attacks will continue and no one will be mining bytecoin when they can mine btc, nmc, ixc and nmc all together as I do.

This is a last ditch effort to save bytecoin. Again, how will you use it when no one is mining? You can't send bytecoin without blocks. Forking sounds bad I know, but you don't lose your bytecoin! All we get is massive mining and much fairer. Pools will work better when blocks are found every 10 minutes. Difficulty won't raise much. It's already raised because of the attacks.

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

The whole purpose of this fork is to enable merged mining. It will not weaken the security of bitcoin, affect the bitcoin blockchain, or do anything to bitcoin at all for that matter. All this "merged mining" patch will do is allow us to mine bytecoin alongside bitcoin and namecoin on pools like bitparking.com. If people could mine bytecoin and bitcoin, it will keep the network alive, and get bytecoin's name out there. THAT is what this is about. We need the network to stay stable. All this patch really does is allow bytecoin to stay perfectly in sync with the bitcoin blockchain. The chains won't become the same, but they run in tandem. Allows hashes to be submitted to both chains and come back valid.

movellan

full member

Activity: 368

Merit: 100

Quote from: ProfMac on June 03, 2013, 12:59:42 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 03, 2013, 01:07:08 AM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 02, 2013, 10:38:54 PM

I will be sticking with original Bytecoin and will not go to any forks of the code; the only code changes I will accept are updates from the main Bitcoin source.

I will have some hashing power in a few weeks.
I don't see a reason to fork the code.

I don't understand what merged mining is, or what the advantage is to support it.
Where we are now, could we simply set up 1 pool and benefit from it?

I assume that the current problem is that some people with a lot of hashpower mined very fast, raised the difficulty, then went away. Is that the consensus opinion?

ProfMac,

Correct. The evidence suggests that someone with an ASIC/serverfarm has kicked the difficulty up at least twice, once on 4-08 at block 14112, where diff jumped from 4096.032 to 16384.25, and again on 5-06 at block 18144 where diff jumped from 8948.631 to it's present 35794.675.

What this new group proposes to do by forking the blockchain is to form a pool that gives them the advantage in mining and leaves the rest of us with our fly unzipped and nowhere to go.

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: ProfMac on June 03, 2013, 01:07:08 AM

Quote from: Walter Rothbard on June 02, 2013, 10:38:54 PM

I will be sticking with original Bytecoin and will not go to any forks of the code; the only code changes I will accept are updates from the main Bitcoin source.

I will have some hashing power in a few weeks.
I don't see a reason to fork the code.

I don't understand what merged mining is, or what the advantage is to support it.
Where we are now, could we simply set up 1 pool and benefit from it?

I assume that the current problem is that some people with a lot of hashpower mined very fast, raised the difficulty, then went away. Is that the consensus opinion?

Topic: [NEW CURRENCY] Maria 2.0 was banned, here is her proof. The birth of Bytecoin! - page 13. (Read 106441 times)