Or all the above?
Elsewhere in the thread they mention liking 0.84v (??) for starting the chip.
Topic: New Official AMT Thread - page 82. (Read 149472 times)
Which? The HW_reset function, SPI info, or chip voltages?
Or all the above?
Elsewhere in the thread they mention liking 0.84v (??) for starting the chip.
Or all the above?
Elsewhere in the thread they mention liking 0.84v (??) for starting the chip.
Zefir also briefly touched on USB coms... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6506328
edit: Hmm... and the Technobit boards use usb. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4032228
Is just a render but click on the pics.
Are the new Bitmine/AMT/Technobit collaboration boards similar???
Does/can BFgminer work with them? It runs my 2 lil' ASIC Jalapeno's from BFL great.
edit: Hmm... and the Technobit boards use usb. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4032228
Is just a render but click on the pics.
Are the new Bitmine/AMT/Technobit collaboration boards similar???
Does/can BFgminer work with them? It runs my 2 lil' ASIC Jalapeno's from BFL great.
This is critically necessary with the AMT variant.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6506328
well, at least some of you guys got broken hardware you get to fix yourselves 
Zefir also briefly touched on USB coms... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6506328
edit: Hmm... and the Technobit boards use usb. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4032228
Is just a render but click on the pics.
Are the new Bitmine/AMT/Technobit collaboration boards similar???
Does/can BFgminer work with them? It runs my 2 lil' ASIC Jalapeno's from BFL great.
edit: Hmm... and the Technobit boards use usb. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4032228
Is just a render but click on the pics.
Are the new Bitmine/AMT/Technobit collaboration boards similar???
Does/can BFgminer work with them? It runs my 2 lil' ASIC Jalapeno's from BFL great.
At the end of Zefir's someone has made a data in shifter as well. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6176799
Again the questions:
Are level shifter chips used to translate to/from RasPi's 3.3v I/O to/from the A1's required 1.8v for both data in & out on the production boards or using resistor divider network for the input data?
Does each A1 have it's own buffered clock signal?
Again the questions:
Are level shifter chips used to translate to/from RasPi's 3.3v I/O to/from the A1's required 1.8v for both data in & out on the production boards or using resistor divider network for the input data?
Does each A1 have it's own buffered clock signal?
Thanks, I am not spi usb programmer, Just want to help out, and keep you barking up the right tree 
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Yes its a good point and most of have gone through that one, but in this we don't think it's the SPI. Zefir outlined this in his thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-bitmine-coincraft-a1-28nm-chip-distribution-diy-support-294235
The chip resets itself when:
A. when supply voltage is unstable,
B. chip gets too hot,
C. there is noise on SPI bus and communication gets messed up.
Once that happens, we have not found a way to get the chain back to life other then possibly issuing a HW reset which is covered in zefir's thread.
For C. this is an easy fix...isolate the traffic into 5 lanes. This can be adjusted based on the type of miner. Create dedicated channels for it. This is where I was going with the USB/SPI suggestion. There are a few solutions for this on the market already to easily implement this. It would not require any major re-engineering and the backplane can go away allowing for more flexible airflow designs.
Gonna read zefir's post to get some more info, maybe something in there will pop at me and I might be able to mod up a solution to some of these things.
For the other two that is a design problem.
Thanks, I am not spi usb programmer, Just want to help out, and keep you barking up the right tree
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Yes its a good point and most of have gone through that one, but in this we don't think it's the SPI. Zefir outlined this in his thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-bitmine-coincraft-a1-28nm-chip-distribution-diy-support-294235
The chip resets itself when:
A. when supply voltage is unstable,
B. chip gets too hot,
C. there is noise on SPI bus and communication gets messed up.
Once that happens, we have not found a way to get the chain back to life other then possibly issuing a HW reset which is covered in zefir's thread.
Along the SPI com lines... I've been wondering how that is being handled: The the SPI link that ISA posted a while back It says it *does* kinda allow addressing. 4 lines are available for that as I recall. Now as to if each addressed chip can be a master to more in a serial chain from it - dunna know. Gotta dig more.
Now even more relevant, from Zefir's thread: "I understood that the eval board used in China (the one you saw in the pictures) for testing has a level shifter for input and output signals, while Bitmine's boards use resistors to lower the input signals and a level shifter for the output signal (MISO) - seem to work both."
2 things on that: Just where is that level shifting done? and, Is it still being done with a resistor divider network?
Far far better to use a level shifter chip for both data out AND data in! By its nature using a resistor network makes the output signal from the divider highly dependent on what is fed in on the hi side and sensitive to the load presented by the A1. If either changes for any reason so does that signal level...
A level shifter chip not only changes the voltage but also acts as a Schmidt trigger (very tolerant to input signal level changes) giving very predictable switching as well as being a decent current source that will always deliver the specified output voltage regardless of load (within chip specs of course). End result is very clean data signals.
And also per that thread (and should always be done in ANY logic design until proven unneeded) Is the clock signal to each A1 buffered?
actually that was a double side 20 pin, I posted the one for double side 10 pin. While some of the parts were in the box, some were not. Even though its in the box, its unusable. I bought some of these 10 pin, let me know if anyone needs them. They come from China, so might be a few... Now to find that female PCI-E board connector. Any ideas?
I need to find this one now... I guess it is called a "6-Pin Graphics Card PCIe Male Header Connector"
If youre looking for a 6 to 8 pin connector, I have some laying around from GPUs I bought (for mining of course). I could either send you one if thats what you're looking for, or id imagine they're easy to find at a local electronics DIY place.I need to find this one now... I guess it is called a "6-Pin Graphics Card PCIe Male Header Connector"
Let me know!
Thanks, I am not spi usb programmer, Just want to help out, and keep you barking up the right tree
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Yes its a good point and most of have gone through that one, but in this we don't think it's the SPI. Zefir outlined this in his thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-bitmine-coincraft-a1-28nm-chip-distribution-diy-support-294235
The chip resets itself when:
A. when supply voltage is unstable,
B. chip gets too hot,
C. there is noise on SPI bus and communication gets messed up.
Once that happens, we have not found a way to get the chain back to life other then possibly issuing a HW reset which is covered in zefir's thread.
Thanks, I am not spi usb programmer, Just want to help out, and keep you barking up the right tree
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Seems most industry devs already know most of this, It just hit the hobby level and I found it relevant to some of you guys diagnostic posts. AMT must also know this.
Seems all three have similar issues HF BA AMT. Would that boil down to Bitmine original design ?
1 SPI for each master slave.... Is correct way.
Freddy this is a great post and highly informative!!!
Alternately, since the hashboards are already using SPI, COULD it be possible to run them along from the USB port using a USB to SPI bridge? This seems like a possibility. And might solve a number of engineering problems. That said it would require some adapter for existing boards to be able to run. This would be a MUCH cheaper solution than reingineering the boards, altho that is already necessary due to the PCB related issues and other faults on the boards themselves. But from the electrical/signal and software standpoint a USB setup not unlike the way technobit does things might be an excellent way to address this.
Just spitballing on this. There could be alot of things wrong with my suggestion. I am just putting it out there. I will study up more as I would be interested in a quick retrofit to get this working with USB vs doing all this extra work.
Alternately, since the hashboards are already using SPI, COULD it be possible to run them along from the USB port using a USB to SPI bridge? This seems like a possibility. And might solve a number of engineering problems. That said it would require some adapter for existing boards to be able to run. This would be a MUCH cheaper solution than reingineering the boards, altho that is already necessary due to the PCB related issues and other faults on the boards themselves. But from the electrical/signal and software standpoint a USB setup not unlike the way technobit does things might be an excellent way to address this.
Just spitballing on this. There could be alot of things wrong with my suggestion. I am just putting it out there. I will study up more as I would be interested in a quick retrofit to get this working with USB vs doing all this extra work.
Here is some info on signalling issues you guys working on these are up against.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6873065
Quote from: blackarrow on May 21, 2014, 08:01:38 PM
"The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard."
When problem solving, sometimes it helps to start with the basics:
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4023908/Introduction-to-Serial-Peripheral-Interface
Quote from: tempestb on Today at 02:08:55 PM
I wonder if by adding the second connection to the SPI if it is losing power? It should be in third state I imagine. Difficult to make any guesses without having any idea of what is going on.
To put a finer point on it, from the article above (beginner's guide to SPI lol):
Quote
SPI's full duplex communication capability and data rates (ranging up to several megabits per second) make it, in most cases, extremely simple and efficient for single master, single slave applications. On the other hand, it can be troublesome to implement for more than one slave, due to its lack of built-in addressing; and the complexity only grows as the number of slaves increases.
Quote from: fivejonnyfive on Today at 02:54:28 AM
I'll say it again:
Replace The Backplane with Wires
As in 1 (one) SPI channel PER HASHBOARD going direct to a controller. I hope to god you didn't have all the hashboards sharing a common bus on the backplane before - because I can't imagine trying to get that to work.
Quote from: blackarrow on Today at 07:07:46 AM
Quote from: fivejonnyfive on Today at 02:54:28 AM
I'll say it again:
Replace The Backplane with Wires
As in 1 (one) SPI channel PER HASHBOARD going direct to a controller. I hope to god you didn't have all the hashboards sharing a common bus on the backplane before - because I can't imagine trying to get that to work.
Dear Jonny,
The PCIE connector has 98 pins and there are 5 connectors in each case.
If you still believe that this can be done even on one X3 (not to talk about mass production) you are welcome to come to our office and try to do this yourself.
Regards!
Quote from: Vcore:
Surely most of those 96 pins are power and the backplane doesn't have any problem with power does it?
So why not cutting the spi traces and running wires only for the spi?
It might not be elegant but depending on the pcb it might be workable (ie, desoldering something and putting an spi only connector glued to the board) or at least it works to test it.
....
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6873065
Quote from: blackarrow on May 21, 2014, 08:01:38 PM
"The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard."
When problem solving, sometimes it helps to start with the basics:
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4023908/Introduction-to-Serial-Peripheral-Interface
Quote from: tempestb on Today at 02:08:55 PM
I wonder if by adding the second connection to the SPI if it is losing power? It should be in third state I imagine. Difficult to make any guesses without having any idea of what is going on.
To put a finer point on it, from the article above (beginner's guide to SPI lol):
Quote
SPI's full duplex communication capability and data rates (ranging up to several megabits per second) make it, in most cases, extremely simple and efficient for single master, single slave applications. On the other hand, it can be troublesome to implement for more than one slave, due to its lack of built-in addressing; and the complexity only grows as the number of slaves increases.
Quote from: fivejonnyfive on Today at 02:54:28 AM
I'll say it again:
Replace The Backplane with Wires
As in 1 (one) SPI channel PER HASHBOARD going direct to a controller. I hope to god you didn't have all the hashboards sharing a common bus on the backplane before - because I can't imagine trying to get that to work.
Quote from: blackarrow on Today at 07:07:46 AM
Quote from: fivejonnyfive on Today at 02:54:28 AM
I'll say it again:
Replace The Backplane with Wires
As in 1 (one) SPI channel PER HASHBOARD going direct to a controller. I hope to god you didn't have all the hashboards sharing a common bus on the backplane before - because I can't imagine trying to get that to work.
Dear Jonny,
The PCIE connector has 98 pins and there are 5 connectors in each case.
If you still believe that this can be done even on one X3 (not to talk about mass production) you are welcome to come to our office and try to do this yourself.
Regards!
Quote from: Vcore:
Surely most of those 96 pins are power and the backplane doesn't have any problem with power does it?
So why not cutting the spi traces and running wires only for the spi?
It might not be elegant but depending on the pcb it might be workable (ie, desoldering something and putting an spi only connector glued to the board) or at least it works to test it.
....
Thanks NotFuzzywarm, I ordered two of them. I guess they did not used angled ones to begin with because it would hit the case. On the 10 pin double row, it's going to be a challenge to plug that board back in and have it all line up.
For designers, Aligent has a new measurement Fundamentals webcast & Apps notes DVD out. https://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2381549&id=2381549&cmpid=MA44870AM&MKCID=18254238
I need some of these: Any ideas where to get them? Two of these were broken off, this is one of the pieces that fell out of the box. Also compositors fell out, sharp pieces of plastic. I guess its call a "Flat female header" ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lots-of-10pcs-Pitch-2-54mm-2-x-10-Pin-Double-Rows-Female-Pin-Header-/160938983646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2578b600de
First, when it comes to electrical components, do NOT rely so much on e-bay. Yeah might be fine for generic connectors but being solidly in the grey-market may not be either. The assembly house AMT used getting parts from the grey market is part of what has caused so many problems. Unless one is a hobbyist, getting components from non-vetted distributors is verboten! You could be getting anything that comes in a similar looking package that has been re-labeled.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lots-of-10pcs-Pitch-2-54mm-2-x-10-Pin-Double-Rows-Female-Pin-Header-/160938983646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2578b600de
The PCie connector is Molex Mini-fit Jr. series Molex pn-45732-0001. Fora right angle one, straight should be close to that. Mouser pn http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/45732-0001/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs%252bGHln7q6pm0yYNlAgQWB%2fw9pdNaIn3qc%3d
For the coms header just measure the pin-to-pin spacing on it and how many pins there are.
actually that was a double side 20 pin, I posted the one for double side 10 pin. While some of the parts were in the box, some were not. Even though its in the box, its unusable. I bought some of these 10 pin, let me know if anyone needs them. They come from China, so might be a few... Now to find that female PCI-E board connector. Any ideas?
I need to find this one now... I guess it is called a "6-Pin Graphics Card PCIe Male Header Connector"
I need to find this one now... I guess it is called a "6-Pin Graphics Card PCIe Male Header Connector"
I need some of these: Any ideas where to get them? Two of these were broken off, this is one of the pieces that fell out of the box. Also compositors fell out, sharp pieces of plastic. I guess its call a "Flat female header" ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/14pcs-2-X-20-Pin-Double-Row-2-54-Break-Away-Female-Header-Wire-Connector-/371048802872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56643b6a38
http://www.ebay.com/itm/14pcs-2-X-20-Pin-Double-Row-2-54-Break-Away-Female-Header-Wire-Connector-/371048802872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56643b6a38
See... I told you it was in the box somewhere.
Same thing happened to me... lots of busted parts all over the place. You just had to look for them.
However, till this day... they never shipped me a backplane.
I need some of these: Any ideas where to get them? Two of these were broken off, this is one of the pieces that fell out of the box. Also compositors fell out, sharp pieces of plastic. I guess its call a "Flat female header" ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lots-of-10pcs-Pitch-2-54mm-2-x-10-Pin-Double-Rows-Female-Pin-Header-/160938983646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2578b600de
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lots-of-10pcs-Pitch-2-54mm-2-x-10-Pin-Double-Rows-Female-Pin-Header-/160938983646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2578b600de
YES... that is the correct mounting and heat-sink setup I was looking for... xD
Didn't know about that version!
Those should have at-least one mounting to a screw though, with a spacer-obviously. That small thermal-tape will not hold that weight, once heated. I can peel the heat-sinks off by hand. (Have done that to four of them, where they were not seated correctly on the chip. Just got to be real slow about it. xD I am a master of tape removal! That is my only skill.)
That heat-sink covers the "span of the air flow" more, forcing the air through it. (Unlike the copper ones, where 90% of the air flows around it, not through it.)
That is hard to apply, when they hang over the chip like that, and are in two separate pieces. I would have made a spacer with regular double-sided tape, at the least, to support the excess overhang, on both sides, secured to the PCB.
One long one, across both those chips would have been better. But for the other four, an offset mounting would have been preferred, with the under-side support.
I am sure that was just another manufactures "substitutions".
Hi ISAWHIM:
Thank you for the kind words: I was just showing them placed on the board, I have not put them down yet. I don't want to screw them down because I don't want to modify anything if I can avoid it. AMT may ask me to RMA this thing again?, and I will need to send it back in original condition.
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