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Topic: Next level Bitcoin stress test -- June 29-30 13:00 GMT 2015 - page 9. (Read 16032 times)

member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
I was sent 0.18 BTC & 0.095 BTC today a few hours ago for my Da Dice sig & avatar campaigns that I am enrolled in.
Blockchain.info is showing both transactions as received but no confirmations.
My worry though is that neither transaction is showing up on my BTC core client, not even as unconfirmed transactions, just nothing, not received.
What's going on? I've never had anything like this in over 2 years.
Is this related to the stress test?

It's probably the result of the stress test that flooded the network with minuscule spam transactions. There are over 8000 unconfirmed transactions in a queue waiting to get in a block, and your payment is probably one of those waiting in line. Each block can only hold 1 MB and some miners refuse to fill blocks up fully so confirmed payments are being delayed until the miners can get through the backlog of unconfirmed transactions.

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 9709
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
I was sent 0.18 BTC & 0.095 BTC today a few hours ago for my Da Dice sig & avatar campaigns that I am enrolled in.
Blockchain.info is showing both transactions as received but no confirmations.
My worry though is that neither transaction is showing up on my BTC core client, not even as unconfirmed transactions, just nothing, not received.
What's going on? I've never had anything like this in over 2 years.
Is this related to the stress test?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I haven't followed this latest stress test, is it different than the previous where there weren't that many transactions but transactions were big in size?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1011
Ah ... sweet !

hero member
Activity: 613
Merit: 500
Mintcoin: Get some
Is this attack/test still going on?
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
KingAfurah, why don't you flood the mempool as you planned but continue this sustained slightly elevated tx number? Wouldn't it be far more interesting to push the mempool as high as possible for this test?
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
The attack is not meant to harm the network. This test is designed to measure the effect of what will happen when transaction volume starts to pick up naturally.

Eligius filtering out the test's transactions is doing nothing but harm to Bitcoin and is a good reason why no one should mine on eligius. Filtering out transactions that belong to a certain person harms bitcoin's fungibility and it is things like their actions that will lead to Bitcoin's failure.

Agreed.
This also creates the precedence where miners are nonchalantly and flippantly willing to "blacklist" addresses.
A dangerous road to dance down. Eligius is complacent in the erosion of Bitcoin/bitcoin.



Miners have always been free to set policy on what transactions they mine and do not mine.  Eligius chooses not to mine spam from a scammer's attack and instead focus on legitimate usage of the network.

The goal of the attack is to slow down legitimate transaction processing... which by definition is a DoS (denial of service) attack.

Now, let's for a second hypothetically put aside the fact that this particular attack is actually a malicious attack attempt on bitcoin.  If there were a malicious and completely faceless attacker who was hell bent on harming bitcoin, and miners like Eligius could easily do something about it.... you're saying they shouldn't?   Huh  Seems counter intuitive.  'Those with the ability have the responsibility to take action' type of situation, and in this care the decision is pretty clear.  Why would I have Eligius mine this scammer's spam transaction when instead it can mine the transaction of someone who actually just used bitcoin to purchase something, or bought or sold bitcoin, or whatever other legitimate use case is actually happening as we speak?

Judging by miners moving to Eligius since I've announced the filtering of the spam attack (hash rate up over 10% in the last hour or so) I think miners are voting with their hash power (as they should be) and it's pretty clear what side of this argument they're on and they are more than welcome on Eligius.
...

Miners are miners and profit is profit.

Miners are not really concerned with Bitcoin/bitcoins future use and growth, they are only concerned with ROI now.
They can and do jump ship at will.
If miners do, in the future, as you say, and are doing currently, then the golden goose is already dead.

When the Miners determine what to transact and not transact (or whitelist and blacklist),
they are cooperating with those who wish to deteriorate the system and ultimately control the system.

If you are not careful, with your way of thinking, one day it could be possible to blacklist all Eligius's block rewards, and other miners may agree.
If you open the can, you won't know what you have really done, till its done.

I am just a noob, but all transactions/addresses/coins must all remain valid, or one day none will be.


I think this post pretty much proves your ignorance of the situation and how miners function and what their purpose is.

I'll just point out one thing and leave the rest alone.... Keep in mind that with Eligius filtering the spam transactions miners are not getting the fees those spam transactions carry.  So, this is not a for profit decision.  It's a decision to help bitcoin in general.

Miners have always determined what transactions make it into blocks.  This is nothing new and nothing that will change.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
The attack is not meant to harm the network. This test is designed to measure the effect of what will happen when transaction volume starts to pick up naturally.

Eligius filtering out the test's transactions is doing nothing but harm to Bitcoin and is a good reason why no one should mine on eligius. Filtering out transactions that belong to a certain person harms bitcoin's fungibility and it is things like their actions that will lead to Bitcoin's failure.

Agreed.
This also creates the precedence where miners are nonchalantly and flippantly willing to "blacklist" addresses.
A dangerous road to dance down. Eligius is complacent in the erosion of Bitcoin/bitcoin.



Miners have always been free to set policy on what transactions they mine and do not mine.  Eligius chooses not to mine spam from a scammer's attack and instead focus on legitimate usage of the network.

The goal of the attack is to slow down legitimate transaction processing... which by definition is a DoS (denial of service) attack.

Now, let's for a second hypothetically put aside the fact that this particular attack is actually a malicious attack attempt on bitcoin.  If there were a malicious and completely faceless attacker who was hell bent on harming bitcoin, and miners like Eligius could easily do something about it.... you're saying they shouldn't?   Huh  Seems counter intuitive.  'Those with the ability have the responsibility to take action' type of situation, and in this care the decision is pretty clear.  Why would I have Eligius mine this scammer's spam transaction when instead it can mine the transaction of someone who actually just used bitcoin to purchase something, or bought or sold bitcoin, or whatever other legitimate use case is actually happening as we speak?

Judging by miners moving to Eligius since I've announced the filtering of the spam attack (hash rate up over 10% in the last hour or so) I think miners are voting with their hash power (as they should be) and it's pretty clear what side of this argument they're on and they are more than welcome on Eligius.
...

Miners are miners and profit is profit.

Miners are not really concerned with Bitcoin/bitcoins future use and growth, they are only concerned with ROI now.
They can and do jump ship at will.
If miners do, in the future, as you say, and are doing currently, then the golden goose is already dead.

When the Miners determine what to transact and not transact (or whitelist and blacklist),
they are cooperating with those who wish to deteriorate the system and ultimately control the system.

If you are not careful, with your way of thinking, one day it could be possible to blacklist all Eligius's block rewards, and other miners may agree.
If you open the can, you won't know what you have really done, till its done.

I am just a noob, but all transactions/addresses/coins must all remain valid, or one day none will be.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1007
What a bunch of fucking morons...this isn't needed in any way.  It's not like you're going to discover anything we don't already know.
legendary
Activity: 1223
Merit: 1006
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
The attack is not meant to harm the network. This test is designed to measure the effect of what will happen when transaction volume starts to pick up naturally.

Eligius filtering out the test's transactions is doing nothing but harm to Bitcoin and is a good reason why no one should mine on eligius. Filtering out transactions that belong to a certain person harms bitcoin's fungibility and it is things like their actions that will lead to Bitcoin's failure.

Agreed.
This also creates the precedence where miners are nonchalantly and flippantly willing to "blacklist" addresses.
A dangerous road to dance down. Eligius is complacent in the erosion of Bitcoin/bitcoin.



Miners have always been free to set policy on what transactions they mine and do not mine.  Eligius chooses not to mine spam from a scammer's attack and instead focus on legitimate usage of the network.

The goal of the attack is to slow down legitimate transaction processing... which by definition is a DoS (denial of service) attack.

Now, let's for a second hypothetically put aside the fact that this particular attack is actually a malicious attack attempt on bitcoin.  If there were a malicious and completely faceless attacker who was hell bent on harming bitcoin, and miners like Eligius could easily do something about it.... you're saying they shouldn't?   Huh  Seems counter intuitive.  'Those with the ability have the responsibility to take action' type of situation, and in this care the decision is pretty clear.  Why would I have Eligius mine this scammer's spam transaction when instead it can mine the transaction of someone who actually just used bitcoin to purchase something, or bought or sold bitcoin, or whatever other legitimate use case is actually happening as we speak?

Judging by miners moving to Eligius since I've announced the filtering of the spam attack (hash rate up over 10% in the last hour or so) I think miners are voting with their hash power (as they should be) and it's pretty clear what side of this argument they're on and they are more than welcome on Eligius.

Fortunately, as mentioned above, the attack is having severely limited success even without Eligius's help.  kudos to bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
The attack is not meant to harm the network. This test is designed to measure the effect of what will happen when transaction volume starts to pick up naturally.

Eligius filtering out the test's transactions is doing nothing but harm to Bitcoin and is a good reason why no one should mine on eligius. Filtering out transactions that belong to a certain person harms bitcoin's fungibility and it is things like their actions that will lead to Bitcoin's failure.

Agreed.
This also creates the precedence where miners are nonchalantly and flippantly willing to "blacklist" addresses.
A dangerous road to dance down. Eligius is complacent in the erosion of Bitcoin/bitcoin.

newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
Nice animated graphs, weex.

Here's a plot of the mempool size for the past day, for comparison to normal levels.  

http://i.imgur.com/tEPlmCr.png

Also note the spike in required fees, brought about by the higher-than-average fees being paid by the spammed transactions.

Live graphs are available here.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
The attack is not meant to harm the network. This test is designed to measure the effect of what will happen when transaction volume starts to pick up naturally.

Eligius filtering out the test's transactions is doing nothing but harm to Bitcoin and is a good reason why no one should mine on eligius. Filtering out transactions that belong to a certain person harms bitcoin's fungibility and it is things like their actions that will lead to Bitcoin's failure.
legendary
Activity: 3724
Merit: 3063
Leave no FUD unchallenged
What needless extra crap?  I didn't mention any needless extra crap.

You said
Quote
using internal transactions at exchanges where both have a wallet
but if I know 10 different people who use 10 different exchanges, I'm clearly not going to sign up to all of them because that's somehow "smarter".

Quote
Lightning will provide at least as good security as an SPV wallet, with faster confirmation.

And the official release date for Lightning is when?  

Quote
I expect most people to use sidechains instead, where you don't place trust in anyone else.

And the official release date for sidechains is when?

(and the anti-fork crowd accuse the pro-fork crowd of kicking the can down the road - at least we have some deadlines in mind   Roll Eyes )

Quote
You don't get it, do you?  Increasing fees means increasing miner rewards at no cost to the miners.  Larger blocks incurs a cost, which is why many miners don't fill the blocks even today.

I get it just fine, thanks.  But I'm pretty sure there will be some miners who would like to mine some larger blocks and collect the extra fees from all the additional transactions they'll be processing.  Hence several of the large pools expressing an interest in 8MB blocks.  I suppose you think they don't get it either?

Quote
There is no reason to keep the reward at 25 BTC.  The cost of that to everyone who want the security and privacy of running a full node is too high.

So you honestly expect miners to take a hit every single time the reward halves?  I thought I was the one who didn't understand their costs?  One way or another, fees need to go up.


legendary
Activity: 1102
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legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
Ah, the drama.  Looks like this malicious spam attack has no effect on other transactions than spam as well.  From #bitcoin on Freenode:
Quote
19:30 <@wizkid057> xx1d: I've been filtering the attack on Eligius since the first one (as you'll notice Eligius does not mine the attacker's spam).  I've also been monitoring Eligius's memory pool size.  As other pools mine spam filled blocks they also are mining the majority of the legit txns that Eligius is trying to mine, dropping Eligius's memory pool down to just tens of KB... meaning the attack is
19:30 <@wizkid057> effectively ineffective even without Eligius explicitly filtering (the filtering just gives me a good metric to monitor)
Just as the previous malicious spam attack.  An effective attack is going to cost a lot more, and require a large amount of capital in form of older larger inputs and larger outputs which are alowed to age before they are spent again.  The spammer is wasting his coins again, proving that bitcoin works well.  Smaller blocks only means the spammer wastes his coins more slowly.
legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
And what happens after all the "spam" transactions are delayed and adoption has grown to a point where there still isn't enough room in a 1MB block for more "normal priority" fee paying transactions?  That's right, the normal priority transactions will start to be delayed as well.  What do you propose then?  Or do you honestly believe roughly 10 minutes worth of transactions from all over the globe will continue to fit neatly into something smaller than a floppy disk for the rest of forever?  
People will probably send smarter transactions if the fee gets too high.  E.g. joining more transactions in sendmany, using internal transactions at exchanges where both have a wallet, etc.  Bitcoin will not go under, and Bitcoin transaction fees have lots of room for expansion before we reach credit card or bank transfer level.  Eventually we will have to use sidechains, Lightning or similar for smaller transactions where the fee will be too high for economic use of an in-chain transaction.  And we will get faster transactions as well.  But there is lots of room for growth before we need that, as this malicious spam campaign has proved.
You think the average person will put up with all that needless extra crap?
What needless extra crap?  I didn't mention any needless extra crap.

Quote
I highly doubt it.  People like simple and they like fair.  The only reason to limit the network to 1MB is to pander to elitist ideals.  People sending large amounts get security, everyone else gets risk and is forced off-chain to rely on a third party.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.  People who don't mind weaker security, already use SPV wallets instead of running a full node.  Lightning will provide at least as good security as an SPV wallet, with faster confirmation. 

Quote
The wealthy minority get all the benefit and everyone else gets a second tier service.  People getting involved in crypto aren't doing so just to rely on a different third party to handle their transactions for them.  The whole idea is that the transaction is recorded on a blockchain without placing trust in someone else.  If Bitcoin can't accommodate those transactions, the majority will simply use a different cryptocurrency.  Users won't support a network that doesn't support them.
Yes, using some scamcoin could be a solution for those with very special needs.  I expect most people to use sidechains instead, where you don't place trust in anyone else.  Don't forget the fact that over the past year or so 94% of the full nodes have left the network.  The quickly increasing resource requirements is an important reason.  I have switched off two of three of my own wery well connected full nodes for that reason myself.  The security and privacy of a full node is already a privilege of the comparatively wealthy.  You want to make it even more so.  I disagree with that approach for the many of the same reasons that you want to increase the resource requirements for privacy and security even more.

Quote
If Bitcoin becomes nothing more than a tool for the wealthy, I don't see how they're going to keep miners on board.  Billions of people sending several transactions a day on a network that does scale will easily generate more in fees than a few one-percenter-wanabees sending the occasional large payment.  As Bitcoin's block reward diminishes over time, those fees will need to increase if you don't want to start haemorrhaging hash rate.  The question is, do you make individual users pay a higher amount?  Or do you allow the number of transactions to increase and collect a greater quantity of fees.
You don't get it, do you?  Increasing fees means increasing miner rewards at no cost to the miners.  Larger blocks incurs a cost, which is why many miners don't fill the blocks even today.

Quote
If, hypothetically, there was no block reward right now, based on the transaction volume we are getting now, how much fee would need to be paid on each transaction to give at least the current average level of fees plus the 25 BTC reward?
What an incredibly useless exercise.  When I started the block reward was 50 BTC.  There was a neglible drop in hashrate when the reward halved.  There is no reason to keep the reward at 25 BTC.  The cost of that to everyone who want the security and privacy of running a full node is too high.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1481
stress test + greece fear + something else = BTC UP

Smiley
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
Ok it's getting interesting again. According to Statoshi we are currently at 17 tx/s !
Yea, if you look at blockchain.info's main page, you will see new transactions scrolling by so quickly that you can't even see any of them.

Total fees of unconfirmed transactions is currently ~2.04 BTC, the mem pool is ~12.25 MB, the last block was ~4 minutes ago and the 6th last block was found ~51 minutes ago
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
Ok it's getting interesting again. According to Statoshi we are currently at 17 tx/s !
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