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Topic: no charges for cop who killed man with choke hold - page 4. (Read 4940 times)

legendary
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I'm just contending it's not murder because a normal healthy human being would not have been killed by this.

It doesn't matter what happens normally, it matters what actually happened this time. If I go fire a bullet into the air, 999 out of 1000 times it's not going to hit anyone when it falls back to the ground. That doesn't make it not manslaughter the 1 time it does hit and kill someone, even though that's not normal.
legendary
Activity: 1264
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Rob Hustle - This is what happens when you call the cops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
Cops are violent people.

Cops answer to no one and can do what they please.

Rape, Murder, Torture whatever they feel like.... your constitution was created for a reason.. however there are too many sheep now that support mass rape, murder and torture so...  things will not end well.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
....
The same goes for this case, the police were no more "wild" with him than they could be with any other suspect but because the man was obese and probably near death as it is, it's a bit drastic to charge with murder because a normal healthy human being would have gotten up and dusted themselves off. Is it the job of the police now to evaluate a perpetrator's health before they decide to take action?
That always has been part of the job of the police.

That's the very reason that tasers shouldn't be used on the elderly.

It makes no difference to me if the cops subdue an individual in 10 minutes or 10 seconds, but if 10 seconds creates risk to life it certainly isn't advisable.
legendary
Activity: 1260
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wow..
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1001
1NF4xXDDpMVmeazJxJDLrFxuJrCAT7CB1b
Here is where the theory about the chokehold killing him falls apart.

If he was truly in a chokehold where his air supply was cut off...he wouldn't be able to speak while the police had his arm around his neck. At most he'd be able to make grunting and wheezing sounds and would be half asleep in such a state. If he can say multiple times "I can't breathe" then clearly he is breathing, even if it is panicked and short breaths.

It was the combination of police piling on him and probably the anxiety of wrestling around with them in his asthmatic state that drove his heart rate up and killed him, not the choke hold. Can you make a case that 6 police to arrest a guy for selling cigarettes is excessive? Sure, but to pin it on one cop as all his fault and label him a murderer, no.
i'm a fit man in his prime with no real health problems. but i do have occasional asthma problems. usually in the summer when it's hot and there is lots of pollen in the air. sometimes i have a hard time breathing for no reason. i just wake up with it. and let me tell you it sucks when you can't get a full breath. if somebody put me in a choke hold when having an asthma attack that can be deadly. so it's perfectly reasonable to see how this man died with an arm around his throat his face in the pavement and a bunch of cops on his back. choke holds are dangerous. that's why it's against police policy. this man was fine until they attacked him. it was their actions that killed him. that cop is partially responsible for his death. manslaughter is appropriate since it was an accident and using a choke hold is against police policy.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
this man lost his life for selling loose cigarettes. it is illegal for officers to use a choke hold as a method to restrain citizens

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

If its not one cop abusing their power its another
Geez the police in the United States are militarized these days, on the other hand well at least he didn't shoot him this time got his hands dirty.
That said it was a minor crime the police need to pay.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
Here is where the theory about the chokehold killing him falls apart.

If he was truly in a chokehold where his air supply was cut off...he wouldn't be able to speak while the police had his arm around his neck. At most he'd be able to make grunting and wheezing sounds and would be half asleep in such a state. If he can say multiple times "I can't breathe" then clearly he is breathing, even if it is panicked and short breaths.

It was the combination of police piling on him and probably the anxiety of wrestling around with them in his asthmatic state that drove his heart rate up and killed him, not the choke hold. Can you make a case that 6 police to arrest a guy for selling cigarettes is excessive? Sure, but to pin it on one cop as all his fault and label him a murderer, no.
legendary
Activity: 1120
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1NF4xXDDpMVmeazJxJDLrFxuJrCAT7CB1b
Right, I'm a Nazi.
not you stupid, the police.

the real issue is not about killing any specific group or even this specific man. it's about cops killing and assaulting citizens with immunity. everybody is a potential target.

they even shot this little dog. they were in full riot gear with assault rifles and they said this little dog a threat. what's even more fucked up is they shot the dog as it turned around and was heading back in the house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgJS8jMwlqo



legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
Right, I'm a Nazi.  Roll Eyes

Trust me if there was a national mission by the police to murder young black men there would be alot more deaths.

Why didn't those racist kkk police in Ferguson kill any looters?
legendary
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1NF4xXDDpMVmeazJxJDLrFxuJrCAT7CB1b
always
legendary
Activity: 1264
Merit: 1008

So what you are saying is choking someone has no affect on their ability to respirate and deliver oxygen to the brain?

He was choked for only 10 seconds. I guarantee most people can hold their breath for 10 seconds and not die or go into a coma...
This shows your lack of understanding of human anatomy. A headlock usually cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain by stopping the blood flow DIRECTLY in the neck. Holding ones breath you still have all the oxygen in your lungs and in your blood flowing to the brain. Not the same thing AT ALL.

Regardless most healthy human beings can survive a lenghty period of time in a chokehold, it wouldn't be taught as a basic martial arts or police maneuver all around the world if the expected outcome was death. And the chokehold applied to Garner was very brief and from the looks of it not very tight either. I'm just contending it's not murder because a normal healthy human being would not have been killed by this.



He has a uniform and is a good nazi.  The victim is to blame. 
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever

So what you are saying is choking someone has no affect on their ability to respirate and deliver oxygen to the brain?

He was choked for only 10 seconds. I guarantee most people can hold their breath for 10 seconds and not die or go into a coma...
This shows your lack of understanding of human anatomy. A headlock usually cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain by stopping the blood flow DIRECTLY in the neck. Holding ones breath you still have all the oxygen in your lungs and in your blood flowing to the brain. Not the same thing AT ALL.

Regardless most healthy human beings can survive a lenghty period of time in a chokehold, it wouldn't be taught as a basic martial arts or police maneuver all around the world if the expected outcome was death. And the chokehold applied to Garner was very brief and from the looks of it not very tight either. I'm just contending it's not murder because a normal healthy human being would not have been killed by this.


So now you can see with your eyes how much oxygen was going to his brain?
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000

So what you are saying is choking someone has no affect on their ability to respirate and deliver oxygen to the brain?

He was choked for only 10 seconds. I guarantee most people can hold their breath for 10 seconds and not die or go into a coma...
This shows your lack of understanding of human anatomy. A headlock usually cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain by stopping the blood flow DIRECTLY in the neck. Holding ones breath you still have all the oxygen in your lungs and in your blood flowing to the brain. Not the same thing AT ALL.

Regardless most healthy human beings can survive a lenghty period of time in a chokehold, it wouldn't be taught as a basic martial arts or police maneuver all around the world if the expected outcome was death. And the chokehold applied to Garner was very brief and from the looks of it not very tight either. I'm just contending it's not murder because a normal healthy human being would not have been killed by this.

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
Si vis pacem, para bellum
here's another one for all you folks that defend cops. if she had a heart attack and died while getting punched in the face is that assault or murder?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6c3_1404544864

It would be manslaughter because murder must have intent to kill
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever

So what you are saying is choking someone has no affect on their ability to respirate and deliver oxygen to the brain?

He was choked for only 10 seconds. I guarantee most people can hold their breath for 10 seconds and not die or go into a coma...
This shows your lack of understanding of human anatomy. A headlock usually cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain by stopping the blood flow DIRECTLY in the neck. Holding ones breath you still have all the oxygen in your lungs and in your blood flowing to the brain. Not the same thing AT ALL.




If he died he wasn't choked for 10 seconds and you're also forgetting that these cops have shit for brains they won't necessarily know properly about the windpipe and jugular vein or that there are certain pressure points along the neck you can actually kill someone with so if you're actually pinning someone down with enough force yes you could kill them in 10 seconds if you're being a jackass and not watching what you're doing.

The video clearly shows they applied force on the neck for 10 seconds and then let go of that area.

Garner was just as much being a jackass for wildly throwing himself around and refusing arrest. Let's use this scenario, let's say a police officer tries to arrest a perp at the foot of a stairway, the perp resists, they tangle and wrestle around and fall down the stairs and the perp breaks his neck, is that the officer's fault?

Look i'm sympathetic to the police in this instance mainly because I have family who work in the medical industry. You won't believe how many idiots sue the hospital and the doctor because their 70 year-old 300 lb. grandmother goes in four a routine hip implant or something else and ends up dead on the operating table. Somehow it is the hospital's fault that their elderly overweight grandmother died, it is absurd. Unhealthy people die because they are unhealthy, not the actions of the world around them.

The same goes for this case, the police were no more "wild" with him than they could be with any other suspect but because the man was obese and probably near death as it is, it's a bit drastic to charge with murder because a normal healthy human being would have gotten up and dusted themselves off. Is it the job of the police now to evaluate a perpetrator's health before they decide to take action?
The difference is police are not medical professionals. They are not there to treat health conditions. They are there to collect revenue for the state via arrests. People VOLUNTEER for medical treatment, they don't volunteer to be arrested.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


If he died he wasn't choked for 10 seconds and you're also forgetting that these cops have shit for brains they won't necessarily know properly about the windpipe and jugular vein or that there are certain pressure points along the neck you can actually kill someone with so if you're actually pinning someone down with enough force yes you could kill them in 10 seconds if you're being a jackass and not watching what you're doing.

The video clearly shows they applied force on the neck for 10 seconds and then let go of that area.

Garner was just as much being a jackass for wildly throwing himself around and refusing arrest. Let's use this scenario, let's say a police officer tries to arrest a perp at the foot of a stairway, the perp resists, they tangle and wrestle around and fall down the stairs and the perp breaks his neck, is that the officer's fault?

Look i'm sympathetic to the police in this instance mainly because I have family who work in the medical industry. You won't believe how many idiots sue the hospital and the doctor because their 70 year-old 300 lb. grandmother goes in four a routine hip implant or something else and ends up dead on the operating table. Somehow it is the hospital's fault that their elderly overweight grandmother died, it is absurd. Unhealthy people die because they are unhealthy, not the actions of the world around them.

The same goes for this case, the police were no more "wild" with him than they could be with any other suspect but because the man was obese and probably near death as it is, it's a bit drastic to charge with murder because a normal healthy human being would have gotten up and dusted themselves off. Is it the job of the police now to evaluate a perpetrator's health before they decide to take action?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1001
1NF4xXDDpMVmeazJxJDLrFxuJrCAT7CB1b
here's another one for all you folks that defend cops. if she had a heart attack and died while getting punched in the face is that assault or murder?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6c3_1404544864
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
this man lost his life for selling loose cigarettes. it is illegal for officers to use a choke hold as a method to restrain citizens

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

we all know what ever cops do is not illegal in the eyes of the law.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000

So what you are saying is choking someone has no affect on their ability to respirate and deliver oxygen to the brain?

He was choked for only 10 seconds. I guarantee most people can hold their breath for 10 seconds and not die or go into a coma...

If he died he wasn't choked for 10 seconds and you're also forgetting that these cops have shit for brains they won't necessarily know properly about the windpipe and jugular vein or that there are certain pressure points along the neck you can actually kill someone with so if you're actually pinning someone down with enough force yes you could kill them in 10 seconds if you're being a jackass and not watching what you're doing.
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