NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 149.

eagleflies

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Quote from: CRYPTONAIRE on January 26, 2015, 03:14:54 PM

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 07:57:32 AM

Quote from: morphtrust on January 25, 2015, 03:17:03 PM

what my wonder was, is if it penalizes you for having a huge wallet staked, what would stop you from making dozens of wallets and staking them all with smaller increments ? and if this was possible would it not help to at least appear to be more stable and safe to everyone else since no one would automatically know how many wallets one person was in possession of? meanwhile a person who heavily invested in noble would still be fine with making profit off staking.

nothing. but this way you would be strenghtening the network.

anyway, no need to do this since you only need to divide large transactions into several smaller ones. all of them can sit on the same wallet.

Hi Eagleflies. Cool

Just to clarify; are you saying that, for a large NOBL holder, the entire 'bag' can be kept in one wallet on one PC/laptop, so long as the total amount is 'split' between a number of different addresses generated by the staker?

And, if this is indeed the case, what amount qualifies as a 'large' bag? And what is the recommended upper limit of NOBL per address? Huh

I confirm you can keep all the coins in a single wallet - this is a feature from Magi Coin's PoS which we want to cherry-pick.

What matters is amount of coins in a transaction. I cannot confirm the specific numbers yet but this will be announced just before the tests commence so you will have plenty of time to split any bigger transactions into several smaller ones.

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: joelao95 on January 26, 2015, 12:50:40 PM

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Update 2015-01-26
We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

...

- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.

Hi eagleflies, thanks for the update. Wondered: are we saying the PoS-II, regarding the above point? I will do whatever NOBL core team / community tells me Tongue

, but seems like some clarifications are needed.

Quote from: RD965 on January 26, 2015, 11:37:23 AM

You guys still discussing pos? Is anyone into action?

Real action is on. To boost the process toward PoS, I think better to do both general version PoS and PoS-II version (from my point of view) to make things settled quickly, and community test both (particular PoS-II test is needed in order to confirm the stability of the PoS-II modification as team pointed out). From NOBL community of view, simply go with the one you decided, though I can provide opinions, Tongue

but that's none significant.

Joe,

we had a poll regarding PoS / PoS-II before. Take a look and check people's opinions. 80-90% of people was in favor of Magi Coin's codebase.

I do not want to go into this again Wink

If we are going to start discussion from scratch every 7 days we are never going to finish.

After spending some time testing Magi Coin's PoS I think it makes sense for Noble to cherry-pick some things from Magi Coin and keep few things from standard PoS. This way Noblecoin will not be just a clone.

Could you provide an estimate when you will be able to deliver the code with modifications we agreed over IRC, please?

The plan is you make the modifications, then wallet is tested gathering as many people as possible. We look into any problems exchange opinions and after all this decide if we want to use Magi Coin's codebase or if we want to start testing standard PoS.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

GL to all you original guys, I can't watch this anymore. Sad

CRYPTONAIRE

sr. member

Activity: 527

Merit: 251

Quality Crypto Collector

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 07:57:32 AM

Quote from: morphtrust on January 25, 2015, 03:17:03 PM

what my wonder was, is if it penalizes you for having a huge wallet staked, what would stop you from making dozens of wallets and staking them all with smaller increments ? and if this was possible would it not help to at least appear to be more stable and safe to everyone else since no one would automatically know how many wallets one person was in possession of? meanwhile a person who heavily invested in noble would still be fine with making profit off staking.

nothing. but this way you would be strenghtening the network.

anyway, no need to do this since you only need to divide large transactions into several smaller ones. all of them can sit on the same wallet.

Hi Eagleflies. Cool

Just to clarify; are you saying that, for a large NOBL holder, the entire 'bag' can be kept in one wallet on one PC/laptop, so long as the total amount is 'split' between a number of different addresses generated by the staker?

And, if this is indeed the case, what amount qualifies as a 'large' bag? And what is the recommended upper limit of NOBL per address? Huh

joelao95

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1009

Coin of the Magi!

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Update 2015-01-26
We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

...

- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.

Hi eagleflies, thanks for the update. Wondered: are we saying the PoS-II, regarding the above point? I will do whatever NOBL core team / community tells me Tongue

, but seems like some clarifications are needed.

Quote from: RD965 on January 26, 2015, 11:37:23 AM

You guys still discussing pos? Is anyone into action?

Real action is on. To boost the process toward PoS, I think better to do both general version PoS and PoS-II version (from my point of view) to make things settled quickly, and community test both (particular PoS-II test is needed in order to confirm the stability of the PoS-II modification as team pointed out). From NOBL community of view, simply go with the one you decided, though I can provide opinions, Tongue

but that's none significant.

RD965

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

You guys still discussing pos? Is anyone into action?

NorrisK

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1007

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 09:13:56 AM

Quote from: NorrisK on January 26, 2015, 08:55:59 AM

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Update 2015-01-26

We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

Joe is preparing customized wallet for Noble using code base from Magi Coin. It should be available this week.

When wallet is ready I will call for more testers to join our efforts to verify everything is working as it should.

Few details about PoS wallet:
- We will be both PoW and PoS mining for about a month. Then PoW will be switched off. So at the beginning we will be closer to Magi Coin, then will move closer to general PoS
- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.
- We will not use dynamic interest rate.

What is the Current rate of interest?

By current you mean the interest in PoS wallet? I'm thinking about 8% now.

Yep, and i like 8%!

electronicfactura

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

I have noble coin since last year that time price was up and now I bought again so I am in win win position as my cost came down. Noble is traded on daily basis and can replace doge this year. It is best and secure investment.

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: NorrisK on January 26, 2015, 08:55:59 AM

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Update 2015-01-26

We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

Joe is preparing customized wallet for Noble using code base from Magi Coin. It should be available this week.

When wallet is ready I will call for more testers to join our efforts to verify everything is working as it should.

Few details about PoS wallet:
- We will be both PoW and PoS mining for about a month. Then PoW will be switched off. So at the beginning we will be closer to Magi Coin, then will move closer to general PoS
- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.
- We will not use dynamic interest rate.

What is the Current rate of interest?

By current you mean the interest in PoS wallet? I'm thinking about 8% now.

NorrisK

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1007

Quote from: eagleflies on January 26, 2015, 08:13:29 AM

Update 2015-01-26

We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

Joe is preparing customized wallet for Noble using code base from Magi Coin. It should be available this week.

When wallet is ready I will call for more testers to join our efforts to verify everything is working as it should.

Few details about PoS wallet:
- We will be both PoW and PoS mining for about a month. Then PoW will be switched off. So at the beginning we will be closer to Magi Coin, then will move closer to general PoS
- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.
- We will not use dynamic interest rate.

What is the Current rate of interest?

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Update 2015-01-26

We have been performing tests with james6546 of various PoS parameters recently and I have come to conclusion it makes sense for Noble to reach middle ground between "standard PoS" and "Magi Coin's PoS". The idea is to overcome some deficiencies present in standard PoS while trying to minimize risk of running too much fresh code.

Joe is preparing customized wallet for Noble using code base from Magi Coin. It should be available this week.

When wallet is ready I will call for more testers to join our efforts to verify everything is working as it should.

Few details about PoS wallet:
- We will be both PoW and PoS mining for about a month. Then PoW will be switched off. So at the beginning we will be closer to Magi Coin, then will move closer to general PoS
- We will use code from Magi Coin which provides an incentive for big holders to split huge transactions into several smaller ones. This allows them to generate same interest rate as everyone else (so no penalty) and also ensures network is efficiently secured.
- We will not use dynamic interest rate.

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: morphtrust on January 25, 2015, 03:17:03 PM

what my wonder was, is if it penalizes you for having a huge wallet staked, what would stop you from making dozens of wallets and staking them all with smaller increments ? and if this was possible would it not help to at least appear to be more stable and safe to everyone else since no one would automatically know how many wallets one person was in possession of? meanwhile a person who heavily invested in noble would still be fine with making profit off staking.

nothing. but this way you would be strenghtening the network.

anyway, no need to do this since you only need to divide large transactions into several smaller ones. all of them can sit on the same wallet.

NorrisK

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1007

Quote from: eagleflies on January 25, 2015, 01:47:39 PM

Quote from: NorrisK on January 25, 2015, 07:21:34 AM

Let me know when You have a "noob friendly" test wallet available and Ill see if I can do some testing

which OS? windows?

Yeah

fairglu

legendary

Activity: 1100

Merit: 1032

Quote from: morphtrust on January 25, 2015, 03:17:03 PM

what my wonder was, is if it penalizes you for having a huge wallet staked, what would stop you from making dozens of wallets and staking them all with smaller increments ?

Nothing, and doing so would be a Good Thing (tm) for the network security, which is the whole point

The problem with "normal" PoS is that you have no incentive to do the above, under normal PoS, you get the same interest if you have all your coins in a single wallet and stake a few hours once a month, than if you have your coins spread over several wallets that stake 24/7.

However, if you stake once in a month with a big wallet, you run a high risk of forking the chain, while if you stake 24/7 over several wallet, you contribute to the chain stability and security.

Under PoS miners are stakers, but the chain is not absolved from the need to "mine" 24/7, which means enough wallets need to be staking with enough coins in them 24/7.

In terms of stability and security, a whale staking once in a month has the same effect for a "normal PoS" chain as a big multipool jumping in once in a month has on a PoW coin. Unless you want the network to be unstable and insecure, you want to discourage whales from staking once in a month, and encourage them to stake 24/7.

PoS does not just changes the inflation, it changes the responsibility for network security.

morphtrust

sr. member

Activity: 259

Merit: 250

what my wonder was, is if it penalizes you for having a huge wallet staked, what would stop you from making dozens of wallets and staking them all with smaller increments ? and if this was possible would it not help to at least appear to be more stable and safe to everyone else since no one would automatically know how many wallets one person was in possession of? meanwhile a person who heavily invested in noble would still be fine with making profit off staking.

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

No penalty to large holders

I have been asking questions about "penalty to bigger wallets" with Magi Coin's PoS for some time and received nice explanation from Joe yesterday.

In short: there is no penalty. The only thing that someone with big wallet has to do is to split his big transactions into several smaller ones. The main reason being security.

eagleflies

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 251

Quote from: NorrisK on January 25, 2015, 07:21:34 AM

Let me know when You have a "noob friendly" test wallet available and Ill see if I can do some testing

which OS? windows?

NorrisK

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1007

Let me know when You have a "noob friendly" test wallet available and Ill see if I can do some testing

james6546

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Activity: 691

Merit: 500

Quote from: sorrros on January 24, 2015, 07:42:11 PM

Quote from: james6546 on January 24, 2015, 12:16:59 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sorrros on January 24, 2015, 03:04:52 AM

Quote from: jawitech on January 23, 2015, 12:51:44 PM

Quote from: Zebedee23 on January 23, 2015, 10:16:26 AM

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

Well I did provide some ideas recently; it seems a dick brings more attention than a helping hand. Anyways, I guess all i can do now is trust you guys if Rofo is not taking part in the new developments of Nobl. And of course avoid commenting before coffee in the morning...

Haha, No worries, we are all noble has at the moment!

We are currently implementing both kinds of pos to see what kind quite us best. Joe is being very helpful

I think that in my opinion pos is just a forward step to keep noble moving in the right direction, as it seems to have stagnated of late.

sorrros

full member

Activity: 954

Merit: 104

ludenaprotocol.io

Quote from: james6546 on January 24, 2015, 12:16:59 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sorrros on January 24, 2015, 03:04:52 AM

Quote from: jawitech on January 23, 2015, 12:51:44 PM

Quote from: Zebedee23 on January 23, 2015, 10:16:26 AM

id agree that penalising larger holders is insane and would bring nothing beneficial to Noble!! Dunno fuck all else bout maggi POS2 but i dont like that at all!!!

Do you know what you are talking about? It seems you have no idea of the idea behind Magi's PoS concept. Or are you only a big coin holder with fear, someone else might get more than you?

It's NOT a penalty. The idea is to take away the advantage of a few coin holders with a huge amount and give coin holders with smaller funds a better chance. Take a look at the rich list of most coin. You'll see some huge wallets at the top, mostly the devs and a few early birds. They get way more coins via PoS than any other with PoW and PoS combined. That's an unfair advantage and, like fairglu said, a risk for potential attacks.

So in your opinion NOBL is only made for established community members already having a huge amount of coins? You don't want new people who just learned about NOBL? In this case, call it VIP only coin, use default PoS with 1000% in order to ensure established coin holders get the most and tell other people to use other coins with a fair distribution. With your thinking, NOBL with be NOTHING else than the current FIAT ecosystem. The rich ones always get richer, the poor ones always remain poor!

Or probably spend some minutes to understand a concept before stating it's BS.

By VIP you mean the early investors who bought in at 25 sat? Maybe new investors would like to get candies by mail as well as they buy?

Rofo; I was all in favor of POS back last summer but looking at the current status and the discussions, please do what you want with the coin but DO NOT GIVE CONTROL. I can go along with POW if YOU lead NOBL.

I invested in NOBL because of its vision, not because of its technical specs; and I think I'm not the only one.

I guess I prefer smart tyranny over brainless democracy....

why do you say that? The community tries to change something und you complain?

there need to be done an algo switch asap. Whether we take Pos / PoS II or we take MM PoW.
But there are some people WORKING on the future instead of complaining. Rofo took a needed break.

What he said ^^

What we need is help, rather than someone ungratefully pointing out that it would be better if the dev came back, why don't people help out and pitch in some ideas? We are doing the best with the situation we have been given, if you don't like it you know where to go.

Geez, I really understand why rofo left, the crypto scene is full of morons...

Well I did provide some ideas recently; it seems a dick brings more attention than a helping hand. Anyways, I guess all i can do now is trust you guys if Rofo is not taking part in the new developments of Nobl. And of course avoid commenting before coffee in the morning...

Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 149. (Read 1053172 times)