Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 151. (Read 1053098 times)

You can akways get them cheaper 

Cheaper than 6 satoshi? 
I'm gonna start accumulating. I'm sure with the help of Joe Lao NOBL will stay alive and a good addition to my PoS coin collection.

Of course, Im hoping for more desilusion in the markets so I can get em cheaper 

I was a bit surprised of one of your lasts posts, but really understand it.
Sometimes it is better to take a break, then to let things burn you out.

best wishes

This one?

https://www.noblemovement.com/

seems up to me. I am not 100% sure but does it look differently since I last visited it?

Rofo,

I would like to let you know that not everyone here is angry at you.

Most people who post to this thread still highly value the effort you put into Noblecoin. I fully understand you want to have a break. Shouting at you is not going to make things better. Feel free to take a break and come back later if you decide to still show some support for Noblecoin.

My only request is - could you please bring noblemovement website up? Or if you do not want to do it please consider handing it over to someone from this thread.

Thanks and good luck Rofo!

Sounds good to me. We could definitely use it.

Not the end, call it a new chapter...

A lot of other coins have been better than before by being run by the community, so rather than spreading FUD, why don't you help out and make Noble even better than before?

RIP Noblecoin, I use to like it a lot

I think that idea behind this decision is to discourage PoS pools from staking. However if there is a PoS pool which wants to stake Magi Coin they have resources to automatically divide their wallet into number of addresses each holding between 100-1000 coins so they will still maximize amount of coins they receive.

On the other hand for an individual who would like to invest significant amount of money into Magi Coin this may be a bad news and there is risk he may decide to look for investment opportunity somewhere else. Not everyone is tech savy who wants to spend time tinkering with his wallet.

Min/Max Age will influence how many coin stashes (addresses) you need, and the the minimum number of coins you need for staking an address influence costs dramatically as well.
For instance if the minimum stash is 10 noble, you can have tens of thousandths of stashes for next to nothing, but everyone will be able to stake, while if the minimum stash is 1 M noble, having many stashes will be expensive, but too few will be able to stake... so a balance needs to be found.

But in the grand scheme of things, this attack is PoS's version of 51%, and if you have a low PoS diff, you're just as vulnerable as if you have with a low PoW diff anyway.

So while the parameters can make it more costly/difficult, the real protection is difficulty: ie. how many friendly wallets are staking 24/7. Parameters should encourage friendly staking wallets (and I think Magi's parameters do), and discourage "offline staking".

Good parameters make the "basic" attack more expensive and encourage more 24/7 staking, which makes attacks more difficult.

If anyone is interested, I will be willing to redo my infographic when a new legitimate PoS wallet becomes legitimate and functional.
It is sad to see Noblecoin now trading for only 6 satoshis, but I understand the reasoning and no one is to be blamed really.

I see the merits of pos-ii, and at the same time I wish it was an option with longer proven feedbacks. It does sound very promising, but as we should all know, every new tech and innovation can use additional time to stand the test of scrutiny and time. I wish to err on the side of caution and keep a good eye on this, while initially stabilizing our transition by using a proven general POS option.

Long ago we had many discussions about merits of Merged Mining and I had hoped such a path would be open and possible. As far as I know, DMD offer was the closest we had to achieving that goal, but at the moment it seems it did not materialize as the torch was passed on to palmdetroit for a general pos wallet (and he has not responded afte a month and a half now).

We have dedicated community members working on both of general pos and pos-ii options, so once it is ready the community should review both options and agree on the best course to take for the foreseeable future. Once again, I advocate for the general pos swap as the immediate course of action, and perhaps pos-ii at a later date should it stand the test of scrutiny and proven its stability with test of time. It would be highly risky to risk the future of Noblecoin on something so new so quickly, and basic improved security of the blockchain (removing multipools and large hashrates from conducting further 51% attacks) is paramount and immediate concern.

One step at a time, so we can get this done right for the good of all and Noblecoin itself

This way it will be suitable coin for everyone. Not only for big holders manipulating the market but for everyone.
This is/was the problem for the Bitcoin - big holders and large mining farms were doing what they wanted. Now the price is low it's too low for large mining operations but  also more affordable for "normal" people.

I wouldn't call it penalty. Just taking away the advantage against the smaller coin holders. This way, a usual miner with a lower amount of coins wouldn't have a huge disadvantage against exchanges, PoS pools, miners with huge hashpower or investors with a lot of coins who would get much bigger staking amounts usually.

Thank you for your answer. It is perfect. I am trying to understand one aspect, please correct me if I am wrong:
1. miners with 0 or small amount of coins will get nothing
2. miners with 100-1000 coins will get best results
3. miners with more than 1000 coins will be penalized and the more coins someone holds (in one transaction) the harsher penalty

My question is about holders with more coins than 1000. Is it correct that such holder will get smaller reward than someone staking 1000 coins (in one transaction)? Is such a reward going to drop almost to 0 for big enough stashes?

If MinAge and MaxAge are low enough this should make such an attack much more costly.

Do you think Magi Coin's PoS should be resistant to such an attack? If yes, why?

I'll give 100,000. It was good last time.

I also volunteer to do the legwork for the PoA campaign. Reckon we should wait for PoS before kicking it off though.

Yep, tweaking can help, but it's all a matter of compromise and making it "harder" to attack.

For instance, even with stake age and other tweaks, you could envision someone stashing coins in thousandths of wallet addresses, distributing them in dozens of cloud VMs with a client modified for the purpose of the attack, and then starting them all at once, thus take over the chain.

If the attack is timed well enough, the above may not even be that costly: each address would need to hold the bare minimum for staking, and each VM would only need to run as long as necessary for the attack. Using digital ocean f.i., you could have 60 VMs (and daemons) up for 12 hour for just $5, which would be quite enough to overwhelm any low-volume PoS chain. You could even DDOS the few "friendly" top-staking nodes for good measure.

Preparation for such an attack would be very obvious if not planned well in advance (lots of transactions to distribute coins), and would be very obvious when it's running (lots of new nodes in the network), but would likely happen faster than anyone could react.

AFAIK the only protection against this would the be PoS difficulty retarget, but if that diff starts too low, it would not be able to move higher fast enough, as an attacker can throw a lot of cheap staking power.

Is the correct quote because of the long-established and proven algo (non-experimental) as well as specific/efficient technology/money dedicated to it (Scrypt/ASIC). The community is free to vote on what they prefer though, I'm done trying to make my cases for specific paths.