Did the fork already happend?
Do I need to download a new wallet or something?
Do I need to download a new wallet or something?
Not yet my friend, not yet. Give the devs time to make it perfect
Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 230. (Read 1053098 times)
June 30, 2014, 01:04:06 PM
Not yet my friend, not yet. Give the devs time to make it perfect
June 30, 2014, 12:25:59 PM
Did the fork already happend?
Do I need to download a new wallet or something?
Do I need to download a new wallet or something?
June 30, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
I WANT TO BE ABLE TO BUY MORE FROM THE MARKET PLACE NOW THAT I HAVE COMPLETED A SALE THERE
https://www.noblemovement.com/marketplace/
I want to give noble my coin- any chance you could add boost phone cards or gas cards
https://www.noblemovement.com/marketplace/
I want to give noble my coin- any chance you could add boost phone cards or gas cards
June 30, 2014, 01:42:16 AM
Money is also a commodity.
but not in the way that governments regard it. im speaking about political correctness here. we know crypto is currency, but government is regarding and treating it as a commodity. why is that? you will have to fall back again to understanding that it is actually sort of both atm.
Quote
It doesn't matter whether you are willing to sell or not, the supply still exist.
incorrect perception. if i own a priceless painting. this means i have regarded it to a value that no man can afford. all the money in the world could not afford it.. and so.. to the market.. it does not exist. it will only exist if is not properly secured and allowed to be stolen by someone who holds it in much less regard.
Just because it is not on the market, the supply still exist. If it is properly secured, the supply still exist. Just because there are 100bn barrels of oil underground and not on the market, the supply of oil still exist.
We've gone from TV's of limited supply to Oil of unknown supply, lets keep the apples with apples shall we....
Please go research what the term "peak oil" means, it, like the TV's does not mean that the oil will not exist, it only tends to the fact we USE x amount of oil per say and only pump (Smaller x value) out each day, we cannot keep up with demand....
Now Back to TV's with a gross production as discussed earlier in this thread of 10 in which 5 of those the distributor (coinler) wants to keep for himself... lets see if we can top a grade 2 math class here ......
Now we have 20 people wanting TV's the demand is 20 tv's we'll say only each person wants one ..... and there are 5 TV's for sale, so the Supply is 5 the demand is 20 .... we are above and beyond what can be supplied, he owns his 5 TV's and is in no way forced to sell them, they are his, they are not on the market and have no foreseeable place on the market, thus they are not for sale, they are not part of the supply chain ... how ever and here comes the fun part, you can buy one of his 5 TVs he wants to keep, by .... that's right offering him much more then he paid for it .... and thus the price of TV's go up everywhere and those with TV's spare in the shed stand to make a lot of money .... but again .. ONLY if they want to sell or their hoardings do not get added to the marketplace and not for trade ergo are not part of the supply chain.
That really doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but if it needs some graphs or further explanation, just send all your noble here 9UvR4eNz1hwA47CMp3TFyUu5ANRLDDbUUU where it will get a respectful home, one where it can grow on it's own merit and that of this AWESOME community.
precisely my friend.
what i can do is wait for the market with the 5 tvs i sold to go up.
so say i sold 1 tv each to 5 people.. and my other 5 are not for sale.. at alll at this time. the other 15 people will have to negotiate with the 5 who did get a tv and try to pry the tv out of their hands with a good offer. this means tv value went up.. and i can in retrospect consider myself to have sold at a loss. however.. if i give it enough time, people trying to get tv's and offering higher and higher prices for them for the 5 that were put on the market.. until the price of 1 tv is 5x the price i sold.. then i could sell only 1 tv.. and get back 5x in gains whilst still keeping 4 tvs ;p
June 30, 2014, 01:29:24 AM
if ya switch a part of coin rollout from POW to POS u need high POS at early stage
once the gap towards ur desired coin amount become smaller u reduce POS rewards
this is how diamond DMD did it (goal total coins 4.3 million after 30 years):
// Diamond v2 PoS spec:
// 50% from total coins 450,000 to 1,500,000 coins
// 25% from 1,500,000 to 2,500,000 coins
// 5% from 2,500,000 to 3,500,000 coins
// 1% ever since 3,500,000 coins
if (totalCoin > 3500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 1 * CENT;
else if (totalCoin > 2500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 5 * CENT;
else if (totalCoin > 1500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 25 * CENT;
else
nRewardCoinYear = 50 * CENT;n
// Diamond v2 coin POW mechanics
// 1.05 reward until 1,000,000 total coins created
// 0.10 reward after 1,000,000 created
// 0.02 reward after 2,500,000 created
if(totalCoin > 2500000)
nSubsidy = 2 * CENT;
else if(totalCoin > 1000000)
nSubsidy = 10 * CENT;
and this will result in such a coin rollout:
RED LINE = new coins each month produced by POW (numbers on right side)
GREEN LINE = new coins produced each month by POS (numbers on right side)
TOTAL COINS (numbers on left side)
numbers on bottom of graphic are the months (the graphic represent a 30 year timeline)
as ya can see in blue circle on pic we also have a timeframe with high POS and high POW rewards active at same time
this is the main coin-rollout phase
because the percentage of total coins that are already rolled out is higher at noble coins compared to diamond this goldrush-phase can be shorter at noble
later when POW rewards are reduced our plan is to have merged mining to still have hashing power which secvure network of all coins of the merged mining family
we offering noble team to discuss a possible teamwork and research/founding together a merged mining family of same mindset coins
once the gap towards ur desired coin amount become smaller u reduce POS rewards
this is how diamond DMD did it (goal total coins 4.3 million after 30 years):
// Diamond v2 PoS spec:
// 50% from total coins 450,000 to 1,500,000 coins
// 25% from 1,500,000 to 2,500,000 coins
// 5% from 2,500,000 to 3,500,000 coins
// 1% ever since 3,500,000 coins
if (totalCoin > 3500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 1 * CENT;
else if (totalCoin > 2500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 5 * CENT;
else if (totalCoin > 1500000)
nRewardCoinYear = 25 * CENT;
else
nRewardCoinYear = 50 * CENT;n
// Diamond v2 coin POW mechanics
// 1.05 reward until 1,000,000 total coins created
// 0.10 reward after 1,000,000 created
// 0.02 reward after 2,500,000 created
if(totalCoin > 2500000)
nSubsidy = 2 * CENT;
else if(totalCoin > 1000000)
nSubsidy = 10 * CENT;
and this will result in such a coin rollout:
RED LINE = new coins each month produced by POW (numbers on right side)
GREEN LINE = new coins produced each month by POS (numbers on right side)
TOTAL COINS (numbers on left side)
numbers on bottom of graphic are the months (the graphic represent a 30 year timeline)
as ya can see in blue circle on pic we also have a timeframe with high POS and high POW rewards active at same time
this is the main coin-rollout phase
because the percentage of total coins that are already rolled out is higher at noble coins compared to diamond this goldrush-phase can be shorter at noble
later when POW rewards are reduced our plan is to have merged mining to still have hashing power which secvure network of all coins of the merged mining family
we offering noble team to discuss a possible teamwork and research/founding together a merged mining family of same mindset coins
June 29, 2014, 04:41:08 PM
hey there. I´m back from my week off in italy.
what are the news? are there any? when will noble go PoS?
what are the news? are there any? when will noble go PoS?
June 29, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
I have been quiet on the POS subject as I really know nothing on the subject but have been doing some browsing of the POS threads, especially those that are claiming it is insecure. I'd like to see our POS dev to go into those threads and dubunk them as I'm sure that would go a long way to making all of us have more faith in POS.
I thought this as well when reading the IRC chat logs and the comments but After Reading Tranz's post on the subject and his warning I have more trepidation of a high rate.
Yes, a very interesting discussion. Made me realise I know nothing about economics, so thanks for that!
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
I thought this as well when reading the IRC chat logs and the comments but After Reading Tranz's post on the subject and his warning I have more trepidation of a high rate.
I am having some ongoing discussions with Tranz. Right now I am personally thinking that it is best to leave the coin high rate PoS and in order to target inflation use the maximum subsidy parameter rather than the PoS rate. Using the subsidy is more ideal because it will raise the network stake rate and add more security, and leaving the PoS rate high will still attract new investors.
June 29, 2014, 03:38:27 PM
I have been quiet on the POS subject as I really know nothing on the subject but have been doing some browsing of the POS threads, especially those that are claiming it is insecure. I'd like to see our POS dev to go into those threads and dubunk them as I'm sure that would go a long way to making all of us have more faith in POS.
I thought this as well when reading the IRC chat logs and the comments but After Reading Tranz's post on the subject and his warning I have more trepidation of a high rate.
Yes, a very interesting discussion. Made me realise I know nothing about economics, so thanks for that!
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
I thought this as well when reading the IRC chat logs and the comments but After Reading Tranz's post on the subject and his warning I have more trepidation of a high rate.
June 29, 2014, 02:17:55 PM
Still making good progress on the fork. I am at the point where I am very close to having a test daemon version ready for private testing. Everyone keep their fingers crossed.
fingers -- check
toes-- check
eyes-- cjrvl
June 29, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Still making good progress on the fork. I am at the point where I am very close to having a test daemon version ready for private testing. Everyone keep their fingers crossed.
June 29, 2014, 07:15:33 AM
I have an idea. Will pm you Rofo and presstab asap.
June 29, 2014, 07:10:35 AM
I can understand the problems with 51% attacks and do sympathise. Surely there has to be a better solution. May require creating something new, like POS was new at the time and the currently anon fad is new. But creating a max of 14,400,000 POS per day is way too much.
I agree 14million coins added per day is way too much. But as we've pointed out numerous times that is a theoretical max, not a certainty. Either way, we're discussing different payouts/times/mins/maxs etc. to find a balance, resolve these kinds of concerns.
I was thinking in term of confidence. Currently i know that the max amount of coins is 7.2m and don't need to check daily. With POS, one would need to check daily how much coins was produce that day in order to determine the value of noblecoin. If the max coins with POS was 7.2m or less then one wouldn't need to worry too much about checking daily. The average coins produced per week or per month would still be under 7.2m. With 14.4m, the average could be above 7.2m thus depressing the price.
June 29, 2014, 07:03:02 AM
This thread is my favorite book 
June 29, 2014, 06:51:59 AM
Money is also a commodity.
but not in the way that governments regard it. im speaking about political correctness here. we know crypto is currency, but government is regarding and treating it as a commodity. why is that? you will have to fall back again to understanding that it is actually sort of both atm.
Quote
It doesn't matter whether you are willing to sell or not, the supply still exist.
incorrect perception. if i own a priceless painting. this means i have regarded it to a value that no man can afford. all the money in the world could not afford it.. and so.. to the market.. it does not exist. it will only exist if is not properly secured and allowed to be stolen by someone who holds it in much less regard.
Just because it is not on the market, the supply still exist. If it is properly secured, the supply still exist. Just because there are 100bn barrels of oil underground and not on the market, the supply of oil still exist.
lol. ok if i give you $100,000 dollars but you cant spend it or perform any kind of transactions out of the account for your entire life.. do you still have money?
the answer is no. you'd have "value".. but no money!
Yes....the money still exist unless i burn it or wipe my arse with it.
June 29, 2014, 06:49:26 AM
Money is also a commodity.
but not in the way that governments regard it. im speaking about political correctness here. we know crypto is currency, but government is regarding and treating it as a commodity. why is that? you will have to fall back again to understanding that it is actually sort of both atm.
Quote
It doesn't matter whether you are willing to sell or not, the supply still exist.
incorrect perception. if i own a priceless painting. this means i have regarded it to a value that no man can afford. all the money in the world could not afford it.. and so.. to the market.. it does not exist. it will only exist if is not properly secured and allowed to be stolen by someone who holds it in much less regard.
Just because it is not on the market, the supply still exist. If it is properly secured, the supply still exist. Just because there are 100bn barrels of oil underground and not on the market, the supply of oil still exist.
We've gone from TV's of limited supply to Oil of unknown supply, lets keep the apples with apples shall we....
Please go research what the term "peak oil" means, it, like the TV's does not mean that the oil will not exist, it only tends to the fact we USE x amount of oil per say and only pump (Smaller x value) out each day, we cannot keep up with demand....
Now Back to TV's with a gross production as discussed earlier in this thread of 10 in which 5 of those the distributor (coinler) wants to keep for himself... lets see if we can top a grade 2 math class here ......
Now we have 20 people wanting TV's the demand is 20 tv's we'll say only each person wants one ..... and there are 5 TV's for sale, so the Supply is 5 the demand is 20 .... we are above and beyond what can be supplied, he owns his 5 TV's and is in no way forced to sell them, they are his, they are not on the market and have no foreseeable place on the market, thus they are not for sale, they are not part of the supply chain ... how ever and here comes the fun part, you can buy one of his 5 TVs he wants to keep, by .... that's right offering him much more then he paid for it .... and thus the price of TV's go up everywhere and those with TV's spare in the shed stand to make a lot of money .... but again .. ONLY if they want to sell or their hoardings do not get added to the marketplace and not for trade ergo are not part of the supply chain.
That really doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but if it needs some graphs or further explanation, just send all your noble here 9UvR4eNz1hwA47CMp3TFyUu5ANRLDDbUUU where it will get a respectful home, one where it can grow on it's own merit and that of this AWESOME community.
You are totally missing the point. I'm not talking about 'supply and demand', nor 'supply chain', nor 'oil of unknown supply', nor 'peak oil', nor 'hoardings'.
I am talking about the 'existence of supply'......supply that is known to exist.
When one understand this, we can move on. I was waiting to see if anyone would bring up another important factor but no one did.
Time.....yes time.
The supply of coins is known to exist. Doesn't matter whether they are on the exchanges or wallets. How long does it take for coins to get from a wallet to an exchange. Less than 10 minutes? 20 minutes? 30 minutes? Because the time it takes to move the supply from one place to another, the prices will fluctuate rapidly, giving the appearance of P&D. The supply and demand chart would show the price going up and down within a short time frame.
How long does it takes to get oil out of the ground, processed, marketplace?.........long time - 6 months maybe. How long does it take to get more TVs from China to UK?....long time - 3 months maybe. Hence because of the time lag the price going up remains there longer before coming down. Not so in crypto world.
June 29, 2014, 05:15:40 AM
solid discussions going on, loving it (unfortunately I dont have time to dive into it too much).
June 29, 2014, 04:07:14 AM
Yes, a very interesting discussion. Made me realise I know nothing about economics, so thanks for that!
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
As it stands with PoS, I would like to see a high interest path being taken. Even 25% a year isn't really worth staking for, crypto currently changes so often most people wouldn't see the benefits of such a rate. Plus most PoS coins that do a low amount of interest seem to have stalled.
June 29, 2014, 03:00:43 AM
indeed, a very nice and informative discussion...
thanks to all... every input is for knowledge (specially, me)... looking forward for NOBL to shine!
thanks to all... every input is for knowledge (specially, me)... looking forward for NOBL to shine!
June 28, 2014, 11:04:20 PM
loving your work Rofo and been always supporting NOBL!
June 28, 2014, 10:34:50 PM
With *some recent pumps*, please refrain from PM'ing us about being more innovative and active in social consciousness, 'Roads', decentralized marketplaces, public identities, transparency & merchant adoption. We're only slightly frustrated but I'd just like to use it to make a point on how hard we are working and whether short-term market sentiment/price truly does follow genuine work/'innovation'.
They are the current 'innovation' by the same groups of people, and still none are at a level we've maintained for months.
They are the current 'innovation' by the same groups of people, and still none are at a level we've maintained for months.
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