Topic: NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS - page 231. (Read 1053172 times)

I agree 14million coins added per day is way too much. But as we've pointed out numerous times that is a theoretical max, not a certainty. Either way, we're discussing different payouts/times/mins/maxs etc. to find a balance, resolve these kinds of concerns.


Sent, sorry I do the orders manually for now Australian time.


Thank you very much for dropping by Tranz and giving your input. I've obviously spent the better part of a month reading everything out there on PoS to garner a better understanding of PoS intricacies and your name comes up more often than not. Reading your stuff also makes me feel slightly less stupid than reading Sunny Kings. Initially I was after the current specs./'fads' of 2-5%, then felt something like 10-25% would be appealing. At that point I was introduced to high-stake/Stakehunter and the positives of high-PoS security & stake wise as well as its appeal to genuine investors because the returns factor in the inherent risk and volatility of crypto, when compared to other investments they could make in traditional avenues.

However I know currently the # of coins being created is concerning many just like it does with the DOGE community. So more #'s/specs. definitely need to be and are being weighed carefully. I really just want what the majority can agree on is best not just for price, but also for stake incentive, investment, inflation concern & security.

It's such a fine and hard balance to find especially since it was not an original intent, any numbers run would be more than appreciated. At this point we would definitely prefer an appealing incentive to stake and PoS playing the larger role in supply.


We initially chose 7 days (to sync. it with a week), do you feel that makes a significant difference?


Yes a stake max. age and max. reward have also been considered mandatory. I'm under the impression this helps from many angles: security, curbing inflation, promoting more individual blocks to stake among other things. Is this correct? I believe Presstab is working currently with 7/21 days, 60 seconds & 10,000 max reward.


You'll have to be careful or I'll also try to take you up on as much feedback as I can get as I value your input/experience with PoS immensely. In all honesty Presstab so far has gone above and beyond and been great. I understand you two a good relationship? I would also be very happy personally to compensate you for any time/work spent reviewing or QC our fork/code before it goes live.


Thank you 1 satoshi NOBL would be less than ideal, but at that point I could afford half of it and I will buy it and destroy half the supply publicly if it comes to that. Whatever it takes..

lol. ok if i give you $100,000 dollars but you cant spend it or perform any kind of transactions out of the account for your entire life.. do you still have money?

the answer is no. you'd have "value".. but no money!

Good -info, nice to see you available.

YARRRP !!!.... Greatest Dev this side of crypto currency .... I still remember the days (earrrrrrrlllyyyy days) when the pools were having trouble with PPLNS  payouts and Dev team came to the table with some of the pre mine and, bailed out the pool owners,  fixed up the miners for lost mining times ... with some people getting a little more than they would have had they been mining the whole time, these guys have been bloody flawless... and when (not if), when we  hit USD0.10cents a coin I'm a buy Jason (Rofo) a Pub ... with strippers .... lots of strippers for him!!

oh and by the way - read like three posts- god damn it seems to be some heavy topics and serious global issues being discuussed but i could be way off

omg dude u r the best i was freekin out

Nothing to worry about. Noble marketplace is headed by the Noble dev (Rofo) and is 100% legit. They are busy, just be patient and you will hear back from them. Plus it's the week end! They need time off just like the rest of us

hi, i just made a purchase on http://www.noblemovement.com/marketplace

i have not heard anything back- is it a legit website? do i have anything to worry about? i emailed but no response... its been a few hours now? have i been ripped off

We've gone from TV's of limited supply to Oil of unknown supply, lets keep the apples with apples shall we....


Please go research what the term "peak oil" means, it, like the TV's  does not mean that the oil will not exist, it only tends to the fact we USE x amount of oil per say  and only pump (Smaller x value) out each day, we cannot keep up with demand....


Now Back to TV's with a gross production as discussed earlier in this thread of 10 in which 5 of those the distributor (coinler) wants to keep for himself... lets see if we can top a grade 2 math class here ......

Now we have 20 people wanting TV's the demand is 20 tv's we'll say only each person wants one ..... and there are  5 TV's for sale, so the Supply is 5  the demand is 20 .... we are above and beyond what can be supplied, he owns his 5 TV's and is in no way forced to sell them, they are his, they are not on the market and have no foreseeable place on the market, thus they are not for sale, they are not part of the supply chain ... how ever and here comes the fun part, you can buy one of his 5 TVs he wants to keep, by ....  that's right offering him much more then he paid for it .... and thus the price of TV's go up everywhere and those with TV's spare in the shed stand to make a lot of money .... but again .. ONLY if they want to sell or their hoardings do not get added to the marketplace and not for trade ergo are not part of the supply chain.


That really doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but if it needs some graphs or further explanation, just send all your noble here 9UvR4eNz1hwA47CMp3TFyUu5ANRLDDbUUU where it will get a respectful home, one where it can grow on it's own merit and that of this AWESOME community.

Just because it is not on the market, the supply still exist. If it is properly secured, the supply still exist. Just because there are 100bn barrels of oil underground and not on the market, the supply of oil still exist.

but not in the way that governments regard it. im speaking about political correctness here. we know crypto is currency, but government is regarding and treating it as a commodity. why is that? you will have to fall back again to understanding that it is actually sort of both atm.


incorrect perception. if i own a priceless painting. this means i have regarded it to a value that no man can afford. all the money in the world could not afford it.. and so.. to the market.. it does not exist. it will only exist if is not properly secured and allowed to be stolen by someone who holds it in much less regard.

How does this checkpoint server work?

Money is also a commodity.

It doesn't matter whether you are willing to sell or not, the supply still exist.

Looks like you guys are having some fun here.  

I haven't read through this thread just skimmed the last 10 pages or so. But I wanted to put out a few ideas.

First off regarding inflation and moving towards PoS.  Looking at the number of coins out there and the current trading level, this coin is getting close to 1 satoshi, which is something you would want to avoid. Granted you can always move to trading in the LTC market, but still not the best for longevity.

So with that in mind, I would choose an PoS rate that would actually lower the inflation. This can be done by choosing a percentage that is not too high, but not so low as to discourage people from staking. Maybe somewhere in the 10-25% range, not totally sure as I haven't run any numbers on it.  It would also be good to make the stake weight start at a 5 days or less. This would allow more coins to stake consistently and help push the PoW difficulty up higher so there would be less PoW and more PoS. Also a max reward for PoS should be put into the fork.

I think you may also want to do this in phases. The first phase I would personally do would be to fork with a checkpoint server in place. This will stop the 51% double spend attacks, and when the fork for PoS happens, it will help to keep all clients on the same chain. You could turn it back off later, after the coin is stable again.

Also I took a quick gander at the code base. And this was forked off an older version of bitcoin, which is actually good. It should fit much nicer with the current PoS fork of PeerCoin and the like.

I am happy to answer any questions from certain devs ( you know who you are   ), if something in the code doesn't make since.  I may be able to, if I have time, peer review(Q/C) any changes before they go live as well.

Anyway good luck on your project!

interesting that you would cite an austrian theory of money supply here in crypto. but that is all wrong for one reason. and that reason is essentially crypto is not money. it is a trading commodity. you will have to consult the rules of trade as they integrate with basic psychology of a capitalist market. then you have to answer "what is the cause and effect that drives the value of a crypto coin?". many do not know the answer to this question. and so to pretend to know while making decisions is a bit of phallic thinking. eventually crypto will become recognized as money/currency and when it does, the statement "burning money" wont have the same application. you can burn fiat today, but you cant set fire to a cryptocoin. thus things change, but in a sense stay the same. that is why you will be able to find areas where many old philosophical economic theories still apply, but no longer in an absolute way. im a big supporter of the Austrian Economic Model btw. but only as it applies to the current capitalist paper money based system. i think if the west had paid attention to it more we couldve done alot better over the past 30 years and maybe even totally avoid a recession of any kind.


well this paragraph to me suggests that you are really still hinged to the idea that this is money yet acknowledge that in regards to the marketplace, it does not behave like money. so you should begin to see the hybrid currency/trading analysis that must be applied to crypto over standard economic models as i mentioned above. you cant just use one or the other. there needs to be some understanding on your part as well on what crypto stands on. fiat used to stand on gold and silver(when it wasnt fiat). but crypto is backed by the internet and is the direct conversion of energy into currency(though currently viewed as a commodity). crypto is also backed by security.. as larger hashpower generates much harder to crack blocks on the network. cracking a network block and taking the proceeds in crypto would be akin to money counterfeiting(besides theft). crypto's complex encryption ensures that the network/currency isnt absolutely valueless because only allowed processes reward investors or workers. there is also more that drives cause and effect, like constant development or lack of it, infrastructure or the lack of it, flawed coin design or good coin design, community behaviour and quite a few other things. if u dont take into consideration all the factors youll be in a boat without a paddle here in crypto.



no but if i own 10 tvs and tell you only 5 are for sale because im keeping the other 5 for myself.. then effectively the supply of tvs is only 5. if money is scarce and i need money i may decide to sell the tv cheaper to get some more money. but if there are 20 people that want tv's and i am only willing to sell 5, well then you can see how the law of supply and demand works in that case. the first 5 will sell for attractive rates.. and those who want the next 5 will have to make me an offer i cannot refuse and will be willing to do without a tv to accept. this is the model you can apply to hybrid trading and mining of currency supply. there is a bit of a misstep in understanding which areas from standard economics were transferred to which areas of crypto. people are confused by the term "worker" on pools, but in the case of POS who is the worker when mining is finished? workers then become real world people who perform real world jobs for payment in that cryptocurrency. investors can be seen as making deposits to their own bank account with a savings plan(10% POS per annum).

mining is printing money. and just as world governments have aimed to regulate supply as not to devalue the currency, or have forgers just drawing up their own money at home. it is important to build a secure currency through mining. so my view is that no, this isnt money supply we're dealing with exactly. it's money production in a secure and decentralized regulated environment. the real game begins when production ends and adoption takes the forefront. otherwise i could just go into my client and type in  "100,000 bitcoins" and that would be my new savings balance.


im not sure i caught that update. where was there a specification for the POS setup published if i may ask? either way 14 million coins isnt that much. creating demand that outweighs supply is important(see tvs above). if noblecoin is going to allow a continued period of pow as we move into POS then it is safe to say that as we approach the end of POW the accumulation of longterm investors over time will do nothing less than pump the value of noblecoin since shares in the commodity are now limited. with noblecoin infrastructure and develpments it would all just be a matter of time.

enjoying my vericoin investment atm. i think it might be going towards btc value as a direct competitor to btc in the coming year or two. why? it's faster, more rewarding, security minded, energy efficient for the environment conscious, limited supply and innovative features with constant development. all those are markets vericoin takes from as well as others. some users may only fall into one of those appealing markets, while some like myself will fall into agreement with all because i see each as additional market attraction and a reason to grab some early investment for the longterm. i can hold it with confidence. sure a big holder can crash the market right now, but why doesnt he is the question u must ask yourself. because he knows with limited supply it is only a matter of time before the market outgrows supply.

When i determine a value of something, i do not include short-term fads, bubbles, speculations, etc, as they always end up in tears. Obviously not everyone is methodical in establishing a value like me. Some people just jump in and buy without thinking and end up being bagholders.

i must have missed an update. was there some specification for the intended POS setup published??

I think that daily expansion of coin supply is definitely an important element. But there are also important elements too such as attracting investors. Lets take TEK coin as a quick example.  In the last two months the coin supply has gone from 700k to ~1.4m TEK, in that period of time the price has also increased from 25k sats and spiked all the way up to 127k sats.  Under your economics how is this possible?  TEK has hardly anywhere that you can exchange TEK for physical goods and is purely a PoS holding play. The price has since dropped back down to around 80k sats.  This is due to people not supplying the marketplace with sell orders because they are staking the coin rather than day trading the coin.

The plans for NOBL are of course going to be much more methodical than the design of TEK.  TEK has no maximum subsidy per block but NOBL will, this gives a clear cut maximum rate of inflation, but of course that maximum rate of inflation can and will be undershot.

I am here to help the NOBL community translate their goals and wishes into code.  I am not really here to push one thing or another, but I do obviously have my recommendations. The issue of too many coins per day has come up a few times and if everyone comes out in support of changing the goals and Rofo gives the green light, then it is as simple as that. I don't personally think it is necessary, but I don't think it will ruin anything to do so.  There needs to be a happy medium between drawing in investors and keeping the price of the coin stable.

That isn't the point. 14.4m a day compare to 7.2m a day at present does not inspire confidence. The maximum needs to be lower...under 7.2m.

Explain Graincoin to me then. POW/POS - dead and now on life support. There are other coins with POS from last year and their value is lower this year. One can not assume all those holding POS behaves the same.