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Topic: Nobody Can Have Benefit From a Big Pump (Read 8225 times)

hero member
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June 08, 2017, 01:58:20 PM
If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I didn't know what will happen, but I think it can be a possibility. I think they will be waiting for hours or maybe days before they can allow someone to sell it. But, if you can't sell it, maybe you can convert it. I am using a coins.ph wallet where we can convert bitcoin into fiat in a second, so I think if they did not allow me to do a cash out, I will be converting that bitcoin into fiat. And after a dump, I will be converting it again to bitcoin.
An exchange that did that will probably go bankrupt since no one will trust them again, it is one thing if that was related to technical problems on their site, but if they forbid withdrawals or the ability to buy and sell bitcoin then that exchange is surely going to be mistrusted for a very long time if not forever and since trust is very important in bitcoin, the future of that exchange is going to be at jeopardy.
hero member
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I don't think that is possible because. If Exchangers will not allow it then the price of Bitcoin will not go down it is similar to the market closing without any activity. What I mean about that is because of having no action in the buy and sell side then it would be common sense to think that the price will remain the same right?
legendary
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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Have you ever traded yourself?

I mean at a currency or commodity exchange that would count as a regulated one? Obviously, you haven't since otherwise you would have known that this pattern of price behavior is omnipresent. It is the same with major currencies, commodities like oil as well as precious metals. The price may stay frozen literally for weeks and then crash or spike many percentages within a day or two (oil has been particularly notorious in this regard recently). I guess there should be a theory explaining this phenomenon (likely tied to market inertia), but it certainly has nothing with price manipulation as you mean it (i.e. something illegal which is possible only at cryproexchanges). Just in case, regulated exchanges are using the same tricks that unregulated ones employ, and they even get caught (sometimes). I'd rather say it is you who is really naive here

I don't have time to make it any clearer for you. Here's your original statement I took issue with. You then tried to turn around 180 degrees what you said to make my comments irrelevant

As I said, I will wipe the floor with you, and I have all the time in the world

You basically claimed that exchanges can manipulate the price ("there is nothing stopping an exchange from front-running trades, controlling volume in their favor, outright hacking prices, and arbitraging other exchanges"). I gave you an example of an asset (i.e. crude oil) which habitually suffers from severe price volatility with its price fitting perfectly into the pattern you are describing ("prices will stay static for 2 weeks and then suddenly leap 100%"). Now you may want to explain how exchanges (since you were talking about them exclusively, I won't let escape from that) can manipulate crude oil prices in the sense you meant it (by front-running trades, and so on, I specifically emphasize that point). You should understand that the pitfall you got into is that you have to stick to your original claim while I can poke a stick into it from any angle and direction as I see appropriate
hero member
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Have you ever traded yourself?

I mean at a currency or commodity exchange that would count as a regulated one? Obviously, you haven't since otherwise you would have known that this pattern of price behavior is omnipresent. It is the same with major currencies, commodities like oil as well as precious metals. The price may stay frozen literally for weeks and then crash or spike many percentages within a day or two (oil has been particularly notorious in this regard recently). I guess there should be a theory explaining this phenomenon (likely tied to market inertia), but it certainly has nothing with price manipulation as you mean it (i.e. something illegal which is possible only at cryproexchanges). Just in case, regulated exchanges are using the same tricks that unregulated ones employ, and they even get caught (sometimes). I'd rather say it is you who is really naive here

I don't have time to make it any clearer for you. Here's your original statement I took issue with. You then tried to turn around 180 degrees what you said to make my comments irrelevant.

Google "information asymmetry", bro.

That means you know jack shit, and the guys who are pumping, dumping, frontrunning, and scamming know everything. Check your macroeconomic textbook at the front door. NOTHING is illegal in this space yet. They can outright steal your bitcoin and you have no recourse.
full member
Activity: 334
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If bitcoin pumps, altcoins stays the same level in USD and get cheaper in BTC. If you can't cash out your huge benefit from BTC to USD, just buy some ETH or other altcoin. After pump, I guarantee, altcoins will go up and you'll make profit one more time. The only thing is to diversify your btc (eth, etc, waves, xrm, doge, dgb etc, the more you diversify, the safer you'll get)
hero member
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Nope i dont think so most of them has an automated system so basically they csnt afford to do it right away especially those exchanger that has an payment option which is instant
hero member
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In my opinion there are many who benefits from a big pump , exchange will always allow there users to exchange anytime regardless with the change of price of Bitcoin, if they will hold the users fund because of the instant big pump then the user may call that exchange site a scammer.
sr. member
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If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I didn't know what will happen, but I think it can be a possibility. I think they will be waiting for hours or maybe days before they can allow someone to sell it. But, if you can't sell it, maybe you can convert it. I am using a coins.ph wallet where we can convert bitcoin into fiat in a second, so I think if they did not allow me to do a cash out, I will be converting that bitcoin into fiat. And after a dump, I will be converting it again to bitcoin.

market will not prevent any transactions if there are no serious internal problems, so there's no prohibition if large pumps occur within a certain time range, this is called liquidity. We can monitor trends and charts regularly every day, so do not wait to see when whales make the most of the trend, and we can benefit from whatever happens.
sr. member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 300
If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I didn't know what will happen, but I think it can be a possibility. I think they will be waiting for hours or maybe days before they can allow someone to sell it. But, if you can't sell it, maybe you can convert it. I am using a coins.ph wallet where we can convert bitcoin into fiat in a second, so I think if they did not allow me to do a cash out, I will be converting that bitcoin into fiat. And after a dump, I will be converting it again to bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 2968
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Bitcoin demand has raised since Japan legalized it and Australia is coming with legalization as well, soo more investors will come into bitcoin. The concept of bitcoin were to grow over time, with the block halving soo dont expect the price to go down and remain down then the current 2200 dollars, even the split looks isnt a really problem and might not happen anymore.

That is one of the reason and if you are aware of what happened from the past days. The exchanges rate are too high and there are some that are not allowing people to sell. The local exchange here in our country did a fast adjustment after the price increase, they did increased the selling rate for almost 30%.
sr. member
Activity: 286
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The only thing people must realize is that exchanges does provide a trusted plataffor to trade, some might affect the market since they can have someone or a bot trading all currencies all days, but this i doubt the big ones will make such. Knowing all btc as well money belongs to someone there is no risks for the exchanges to fail, and the big volatility of bitcoin is good to investors that does trade it 24/7.
hero member
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I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!
Many people are getting the benefits from exchanges that generate huge profits and as much as possible. Since bitcoin prices will rise within hours, they may exchange bitcoin levels.

Everyone who owns or earns btc, or any other altcoin would benefit from a big pump though that's for a short term only. Pumps can't br sustained in the long run that's why there will always be a time for the price to go down, it's always been that way
Not necessarily, if the price doubles overnight and you sell and then the price goes back to normal after a few days and then you buy you have effectively doubled your bitcoin without doing much and that is not only a short term benefit but a long term benefit since we know the price of bitcoin will keep going up naturally as more people enter into the market.
U2
hero member
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I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not sure...
What is @op going on about now? Exchanges won't let you sell if bitcoin prices rise too quickly? Why not just sell them on localbitcoins then?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?
I don't know if that would ever happen I mean that is a huge pump that you are talking about,
And we still don't really know if the exchanger would let you do it or not but I think they would provably just let you do it since it is the price of your coin.
Yes, for a common exchange model, big pump or dump is not a problem as they are just into matching business and not into real buying/selling bitcoins. In most of the cases we can expect to allow us to continue our trading as per we prefer. When there will be no profits/losses out of any extreme pump or dump, why exchanges need to block ourselves for no reasons.
MiF
sr. member
Activity: 1344
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If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?
I don't know if that would ever happen I mean that is a huge pump that you are talking about,
And we still don't really know if the exchanger would let you do it or not but I think they would provably just let you do it since it is the price of your coin.
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 250
Bitcoin demand has raised since Japan legalized it and Australia is coming with legalization as well, soo more investors will come into bitcoin. The concept of bitcoin were to grow over time, with the block halving soo dont expect the price to go down and remain down then the current 2200 dollars, even the split looks isnt a really problem and might not happen anymore.
sr. member
Activity: 1923
Merit: 321
English<->Pt-BR - Professional Translations(90+)
I think  there's no reason to an exchange do this, they wil get profit anyway. Now i'm thinking about the lags or DDOS they talk about. Poloniex for example, i like to trade there but in the last month was so hard to make anything (trade, withdrawal, stop-limit that don't work, etc...). Should this deliberately?

OBS: I don't want to put Poloniex integrity in question here, is just an example.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
If there is an exchange I think there will be many who will hold your coins if you want them. The market generates a big profit from trading costs so as to make money with volume and the price is not too important to them.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Have you ever traded yourself?

I mean at a currency or commodity exchange that would count as a regulated one? Obviously, you haven't since otherwise you would have known that this pattern of price behavior is omnipresent. It is the same with major currencies, commodities like oil as well as precious metals. The price may stay frozen literally for weeks and then crash or spike many percentages within a day or two (oil has been particularly notorious in this regard recently). I guess there should be a theory explaining this phenomenon (likely tied to market inertia), but it certainly has nothing with price manipulation as you mean it (i.e. something illegal which is possible only at cryproexchanges). Just in case, regulated exchanges are using the same tricks that unregulated ones employ, and they even get caught (sometimes). I'd rather say it is you who is really naive here

I took you off my ignore list just in time to see this response. First off, trading at an exchange is not required to examine the suspicious coin price charts. But of course I have traded BTC and other cryptos.  Do you really think that the massive price shifts for every crypto are "market driven", or normal?  What other financial asset class has such rapid price growth and collapse? I guess it's time for you to start googling. And don't give me "penny stocks"

I asked you about trading at a "real" regulated exchange

Such as a commodity or currency exchange like NYMEX or MICEX. I'm not talking about cryptoexchanges like Bitstamp or Bitfinex. The price shifts there are absolutely the same, and they follow the same patterns. There is nothing unusual with that. You can ask any experienced trader, and he will tell you that prices don't change gradually, they almost always move in sudden bursts, either up or down. Some assets are more susceptible to such changes, some less, but that has nothing to do whether the exchange is regulated or not. In this sense, they are "normal" and as market driven as any price could ever be. I don't need to Google anything, I have already told you about crude oil since I traded oil futures myself and I remember the days when the price changed a dozen percentages within 24 hours. I can also tell you about silver which grew a few times within months in 2011. It kinda looks that it is you who needs to get first-hand experience first

Just LOL. You act as if there is something legitimare about your "real" exchanges. Prices there are manipulated in the same ways as I am discussing, if only to a lesser degree due to some mild regulations by SEC and CFTC (agencies that very rarely do anything about the widespread fraud and are in the pocket of major corporations). Oil futures must be one of the most rigged markets in the world. COMEX, forget it, they might have 5% of the "gold" they've sold over the past 20 years...

I never said anything to the contrary

In fact, I always say that myself, and I said that again in one of my replies to your posts above. In case you didn't notice that piece, I can quote it here:

The admins of the exchanges doesn't have enough bitcoin for manipulation because their markets are all decentralized because they are using decentralized currencies so there is no chance for them to manipulate the price of the currencies there and the only thing that they can do is to maintain their site, Bitcoin price is always depending in the demand and not manipulation.

Sorry, but that point of view seems naive to me. You are aware that the cryptocurrency space is almost complete unregulated?

Therefore, there is nothing stopping an exchange from front-running trades, controlling volume in their favor, outright hacking prices, and arbitraging other exchanges. With transaction volume at all-time highs, there is even more opportunity to "time the markets" and profit handsomely. Have you noticed the volatility on these exchanges? Prices will stay static for 2 weeks and then suddenly leap 100% - that's basically a huge red flag that a market is being manipulated

Now try to make sense of that and how it is different from what you say now ("prices there are manipulated in the same ways as I am discussing"). So how is cryptocurrency space which is "almost completely unregulated" different from other "regulated spaces", which is what your point is essentially about (namely, that "regulated space" would be different)? And you even specifically emphasized the word "unregulated". You may try to back-pedal this issue, you may try to side-step it, you may even try to lol it or otherwise ridicule it, I'm in no hurry to wipe the floor with you (you have well deserved it anyway)
sr. member
Activity: 338
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If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

You can make quick transactions on many exchanges like poloniex. Exchanges like Coinbase however are not set up for quick transactions.

Exactly, that's why I disagree with the OP because you can actually benefit for a few hours and not necessarily that everyone cannot benefit, some can actually profit quickly from the exchanges.
but a lot of people will lose their money in this pump and I have to say that it is not very good to make the profit from the bump because it will create fake volume, a fake price which will make a lot of people lose their money. It can also make a coin crash
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