Topic: Nobody Can Have Benefit From a Big Pump - page 7. (Read 8276 times)

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

First of all few hours is too less time for more than 130% pump at the price of $1300 !!
Secondly, how exchange gonna know btc is going to be $3000 or even more before hand, its people who makes prices. Thirdly, if exchange stops exchange how can price keeps climbing?
Fourth and most important, Exchange will not be in losses, it is not exchange who buys your btc but the people in form of buyer, rather exchange will make money in form of commission from increased transactions.

abayan

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Quote from: KenR on May 10, 2017, 01:42:54 AM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I dont think so ,i am not agree with this because we don't know what exchanges will do. I think exchanges will to their own way to have an advantage on it .If they do so they might have a problem with their reputation.

deisik

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Are you joking? Stuck transactions are due to the blocksize limit, FFS. Miners aren't scrounging fees, they're unable to keep up with the volume because they can only process 1MB every block interval.

Did I quote it all wrong or you're just being a hypocrite ?

Yes, you seem to have quoted it all wrong

These words are evidently not my words. I don't care if you are going to apologize or whatever (I really don't care), but you'd better do for your own sake since karma is a bitch (and she certainly takes her job seriously). Regarding miners, this is sort of natural behavior (i.e. looking for more profits in every feasible way not outright banned by law or otherwise). But this still doesn't make them less rogue. Or, if you are not quite happy with me calling a bunch of dudes representing mining nowadays rogue miners, then the whole mining system in Bitcoin is rogue and corrupt. Whether or not you have an idea how that is relevant to the topic isn't my business either. Anyway, you are asking the wrong person

KenR

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「きみはこれ&#

At first, there were some problems "on the blockchain", now we have some staff working on these nonexistent issues to resolve them. What staff are you talking about? Apart from that, stuck transactions and slow confirmation times have more to do with Bitcoin miners deliberately refusing to confirm transactions (in an effort to scrounge higher fees). Obviously, this has nothing to do with exchanges allegedly withholding withdrawals in times of above average price volatility

That's non-sense.Don't have an idea how that is relevant to the topic.You want miners to use their resources for free ? The least they could do is cover up their electricity costs.

Are you joking? Stuck transactions are due to the blocksize limit, FFS. Miners aren't scrounging fees, they're unable to keep up with the volume because they can only process 1MB every block interval.

Did I quote it all wrong or you're just being a hypocrite ?

I'd rather say that it is you who are misinformed. Miners are doing what any other monopoly out there does, i.e. trying to squeeze as much profit as possible from their clients. In this case, it means exactly that, i.e. going for higher fees in any possible way since mining rewards are fixed and cannot be changed without destroying Bitcoin. It has been discussed many times already, some miners are not filling up blocks to the hilt, some are leaving them deliberately empty, with only one generating transaction (e.g. AntPool). Wtf, they may be spamming the network themselves. And what's ironic, it is exactly them who are declining solutions that would solve this issue. Now ask if there is a single reason not to call them rogue?

Again,do you have a better solution which would be profitable on both the ends ? Whining doesn't do good to anybody.

Jherek

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Quote from: classicsucks on May 09, 2017, 04:30:25 PM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

No, not really.

The speculators will definitely be able to make a quick buck or two from this. You have to realise that the price of bitcoin is determined by the last trade conducted between buyers and sellers, and that means that a trade has to actually happen.

If the price on Bitstamp for instance is $3,000 that means that the last trade conducted is $3,000. If you want to place a market order then the highest buy order might only be $2,950, but still, you CAN sell the bitcoins if there was a big pump.

deisik

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Quote from: blackhawkeye1912 on May 09, 2017, 11:00:30 PM

At first, there were some problems "on the blockchain", now we have some staff working on these nonexistent issues to resolve them. What staff are you talking about? Apart from that, stuck transactions and slow confirmation times have more to do with Bitcoin miners deliberately refusing to confirm transactions (in an effort to scrounge higher fees). Obviously, this has nothing to do with exchanges allegedly withholding withdrawals in times of above average price volatility

Are you joking? Stuck transactions are due to the blocksize limit, FFS. Miners aren't scrounging fees, they're unable to keep up with the volume because they can only process 1MB every block interval.

I'm not joking at all

I'd rather say that it is you who are misinformed. Miners are doing what any other monopoly out there does, i.e. trying to squeeze as much profit as possible from their clients. In this case, it means exactly that, i.e. going for higher fees in every possible way since mining rewards are fixed and cannot be changed without destroying Bitcoin. It has been discussed many times already, some miners are not filling up blocks to the hilt, some are leaving them deliberately empty, with only one generating transaction (e.g. AntPool). Wtf, they may be spamming the network themselves. And what's ironic, it is exactly them who are declining solutions that would solve this issue. Now ask if there is a single reason not to call them rogue?

Sled

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Bitcoin- in bullish time

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I think that's not going to be happen, and I do agreed that exchange won't allow it to be happen because if they know that it will bring them a big loss. And sometimes the common problem with the exchange transaction was once it transferred in the blockchain the transaction confirmation is being delayed. So the release of bitcoin is not easily transfer to our wallet addresses.

Yes the exchangers site will not allow that being not allowed sell because of the pumps because if they do that then it will be a huge damage to their reputation a lot of people will not trust their site anymore. The only thing that exchangers do is to have a market where people can buy and sell and allowing and not allowing selling is not their concern because they already making a lot of money from the fees of transactions in their site.

blackhawkeye1912

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Quote from: classicsucks on May 09, 2017, 04:30:25 PM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I think that's not going to be happen, and I do agreed that exchange won't allow it to be happen because if they know that it will bring them a big loss. And sometimes the common problem with the exchange transaction was once it transferred in the blockchain the transaction confirmation is being delayed. So the release of bitcoin is not easily transfer to our wallet addresses.

maku

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At first, there were some problems "on the blockchain", now we have some staff working on these nonexistent issues to resolve them. What staff are you talking about? Apart from that, stuck transactions and slow confirmation times have more to do with Bitcoin miners deliberately refusing to confirm transactions (in an effort to scrounge higher fees). Obviously, this has nothing to do with exchanges allegedly withholding withdrawals in times of above average price volatility

Are you joking? Stuck transactions are due to the blocksize limit, FFS. Miners aren't scrounging fees, they're unable to keep up with the volume because they can only process 1MB every block interval.

Bitcoin network is being spammed. All legit uses of the blockchain are currently 750k/block average.
Rest is unsanctioned use e.g. spam or other useless data hidden in the blocks.

If we had some way to sort microtrasaction/filter spam then half megabyte block would be more that sufficient.

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Here's the thing, bitcoin miners are at a profitability greater than ever and mining equipment manufacturers are having great days too as the profitability can only increase demand and help make mining more sustainable in the longer term.

classicsucks

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Quote from: nethan1btc on May 09, 2017, 03:44:13 AM

At first, there were some problems "on the blockchain", now we have some staff working on these nonexistent issues to resolve them. What staff are you talking about? Apart from that, stuck transactions and slow confirmation times have more to do with Bitcoin miners deliberately refusing to confirm transactions (in an effort to scrounge higher fees). Obviously, this has nothing to do with exchanges allegedly withholding withdrawals in times of above average price volatility

Are you joking? Stuck transactions are due to the blocksize limit, FFS. Miners aren't scrounging fees, they're unable to keep up with the volume because they can only process 1MB every block interval.

deisik

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Quote from: deisik on May 09, 2017, 03:06:42 AM

Quote from: nethan1btc on May 09, 2017, 03:44:13 AM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain

What blockchain problem do you refer to?

The only problems that have happened so far are stuck transactions (long confirmation times), but these are irrelevant both to blockchain and exchanges. Bitcoin is not your fiat with which banks can block payment channels, freeze your funds (as an option, outright seize them), or just announce banking holidays whenever they see appropriate (I don't even speak about usual weekends and holidays). On the other hand, blockchain is open 24/7/365(366) with no weekends or holidays as well as maintenance hours

So you mean this mainly the common situation which could happen when price pump is happening in the blockchain and exchanges. Yes most of us think that it's the reason, but all of those certain happening was not only the basis of what is actually happening here. Blockchain network really is the liable of how transactions delays and even sending confirmations is concerned, and yet price will normally rises up and also decreases, so we must be patient enough of this kind of problems and I know staffs were doing their best to resolve this issues.

Well, now someone else refers to something as nonexistent

At first, there were some problems "on the blockchain", now we have some staff working on these nonexistent issues to resolve them. What staff are you talking about? Apart from that, stuck transactions and slow confirmation times have more to do with Bitcoin miners deliberately refusing to confirm transactions (in an effort to scrounge higher fees). Obviously, this has nothing to do with exchanges allegedly withholding withdrawals in times of above average price volatility

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on May 09, 2017, 03:06:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 09, 2017, 03:06:42 AM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain

What blockchain problem do you refer to?

The only problems that have happened so far are stuck transactions (long confirmation times), but these are irrelevant both to blockchain and exchanges. Bitcoin is not your fiat with which banks can block payment channels, freeze your funds (as an option, outright seize them), or just announce banking holidays whenever they see appropriate (I don't even speak about usual weekends and holidays). On the other hand, blockchain is open 24/7/365(366) with no weekends or holidays as well as maintenance hours

So you mean this mainly the common situation which could happen when price pump is happening in the blockchain and exchanges. Yes most of us think that it's the reason, but all of those certain happening was not only the basis of what is actually happening here. Blockchain network really is the liable of how transactions delays and even sending confirmations is concerned, and yet price will normally rises up and also decreases, so we must be patient enough of this kind of problems and I know staffs were doing their best to resolve this issues.

things you are saying are nearly irrelevant to each other!
price rise is based on supply and demand. and demand is rising with more adoption and it has nothing to do with confirmation time or more accurately, enforcing higher fees.

and what are these "staff" that you are referring to!
there are no staff, you must be thinking bitcoin is some kind of centralized banking system that some people are processing transactions by hand

nethan1btc

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If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain

What blockchain problem do you refer to?

The only problems that have happened so far are stuck transactions (long confirmation times), but these are irrelevant both to blockchain and exchanges. Bitcoin is not your fiat with which banks can block payment channels, freeze your funds (as an option, outright seize them), or just announce banking holidays whenever they see appropriate (I don't even speak about usual weekends and holidays). On the other hand, blockchain is open 24/7/365(366) with no weekends or holidays as well as maintenance hours

So you mean this mainly the common situation which could happen when price pump is happening in the blockchain and exchanges. Yes most of us think that it's the reason, but all of those certain happening was not only the basis of what is actually happening here. Blockchain network really is the liable of how transactions delays and even sending confirmations is concerned, and yet price will normally rises up and also decreases, so we must be patient enough of this kind of problems and I know staffs were doing their best to resolve this issues.

deisik

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If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain

What blockchain problem do you refer to?

The only problems that have happened so far are stuck transactions (long confirmation times), but these are irrelevant both to blockchain and exchanges. Bitcoin is not your fiat with which banks can block payment channels, freeze your funds (as an option, outright seize them), or just announce banking holidays whenever they see appropriate (I don't even speak about usual weekends and holidays). On the other hand, blockchain is open 24/7/365(366) with no weekends or holidays as well as maintenance hours

RoommateAgreement

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Bazinga!

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain.

a fast rise and a huge traffic on exchanges which may cause some downtime doesn't have anything to do with bitcoin price getting "pumped". so OP has to make up his mind, and talk about only one specific topic:
- price pump (meaning going from $1300 to $3000 in an hour for example)
- price rise (meaning rising from $1300 to $1400)
- not being able to withdraw from exchanges.
these are 3 different and completely irrelevent topics.

Xester

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Quote from: freebutcaged on May 08, 2017, 06:23:32 PM

If Bitcoin price pumps from $1300 to $3000 in few hours, nobody would make profit from it, because the exchanges wouldn't allow you to sell your Bitcoins and make the fast profit, it would bring a big loss for exchange sites.

Do you agree with this?

I DON'T AGREE TO THIS! Why would an exchange not allow you to sell your bitcoins? On what grounds will the hold your funds?
They should know better how bitcoin can be volatile at times and payout even when its a loss on their side.

I guess I have misread the post of the author last time. But there are also points to what he mentioned in his post but it is not about not be able to sell bitcoin but rather you cannot withdraw your bitcoin from the exchanges during the increase of value. As experience maintenance always occurs and there is delay in the withdrawals but I dont know if its because the exchanges doesnt want to let us withdraw or there is problem on the blockchain.

deisik

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Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on May 08, 2017, 05:50:57 PM

Quote from: Rinder on May 08, 2017, 05:33:44 PM

Some exchanges does play into some pumps and join them, but in the end the money from costumer its possible, if a big pump happens, only who has money will be able to buy, i dont believe exchanges will have any issue, instead they sell 1000 bitcoins=1 milion, they will sell 300 bitcoins 1 milion easy as that.

That is the only realistic option that could happen,you can only buy something if you are having money and for that you need to have a regular job. Tongue

so are you telling that the exchanges are manipulating with the price and users funds.If so that is a big accusation you are making.The people who have the guts to take some risks gets the maximum benefit from a big pump.

Please don't act like none of you know this fact already that exchanges do manipulate markets and take advantage from every opportunity? did you think they are satisfied with their commissions and low fees? when pumps happening their sites loads so slow that makes it impossible to do anything because of so much lag. Good examples are services such as yobit and polo, kraken etc.
They buy most of the coins and start manipulating the buy/sell orders in their own favor.
It's a proven fact

I don't think this is a proven fact

This is only a suspicion (or just an opinion). Unless caught red-handed, we should give the exchanges the benefit of doubt, shouldn't we? When there is a spike in trading volume during "rush" hours, exchanges, especially the smaller ones can have problems processing so many requests. I know one exchange which starts maintenance work in these hours (but maybe it is just a coincidence). That said, I myself think that many if not all exchanges are front-running the orders of their clients, but I still don't think that any decent (more or less) exchange starts manipulating the orders directly. Or maybe you mean something entirely different here

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