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Topic: | Nxt | Blockchain Platform | Proof of Stake | Official - page 352. (Read 941260 times)

legendary
Activity: 1205
Merit: 1000
I love July!  Cool
hero member
Activity: 1680
Merit: 506
Trphy.io
July will be a good month:

Nxtty app
Android Wallet
NXT Mania Games (maybe)
NRS 1.2 (probably)
NXTHaus
GoCoin implementation (if they are fast enough)
Coinomat.com
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
NXT has many features, now even its own NXTCircuS with its own NXTClowN (nxt2damoon) Grin
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100

And 'Satoshi' (NXTQuant) has been added to Nxt.

This is taken from https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/how-does-the-nxt-monetary-system-work/ and there are follow up questions there.

(NXTQuant) has been added to Nxt.
So it is NTQ....
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
NXT to da moon
We is da best in da world bro
 why you delete 2 my post : I talk good thing nxt all time
Me no like bad trolls dat say we is a scam or retards wid da FUD
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
devphp is right, that part of Nxt is known as Monetary System. The link above is part of the subforum here > https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/



Here is an intro to Monetary System:

1. How can NXT users create their own currency?

By issuing a single transaction that says "At height X lock all nxts spent for creation of currency Y and issue Z coins".


2. How does the locking work?

All "burned" NXTs r locked until newly created coins not destroyed. If u destroy 7% of the supply then u get 7% of the locked NXT to ur account.


3. You can take-out NXT from the locked account (by burning NXT) but can you also later put in NXT and get more of that currency.

Only take-out, u can't inflate the supply by locking more nxts.


4. Will this be integrated with the Asset Exchange (will there be a forex to trade between the different currencies)?

All transaction types that use NXT can be used with such "subcurrencies", but transaction fee will paid in NXT anyway.


5. Who will make this? Are you building this Come-from-Beyond?

Me. I'll wait when Jean-Luc adds "satoshi" and then continue.

And 'Satoshi' (NXTQuant) has been added to Nxt.

This is taken from https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/how-does-the-nxt-monetary-system-work/ and there are follow up questions there.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
Would it be possible to run a cryptonote based coin on top of NXT? Does that even make sense? I read that often, that POW coins can run on top of NXT, but I still don't get how that works exactly. If a CN coin *could* run on NXT (whatever that means) would its transactions be anonymous? If yes, then that makes a powerful combo.

NXT & Monero look the best coin long term, so if you could combine them , wow!! I want to know more about 'coins on top of NXT'  .... how does it work,  what can be done with those coins?

I believe, the best thread to ask this question is here, only CfB can answer at this time, but he doesn't visit bitcointalk now.

https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/pow-currencies-on-top-of-nxt/

Not sure if you can marry NXT and Monero, but the Monero code is open source, right? You can start another monero backed by NXTs or something, but better go to that link and ask CfB himself.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
Would it be possible to run a cryptonote based coin on top of NXT? Does that even make sense? I read that often, that POW coins can run on top of NXT, but I still don't get how that works exactly. If a CN coin *could* run on NXT (whatever that means) would its transactions be anonymous? If yes, then that makes a powerful combo.

NXT & Monero look the best coin long term, so if you could combine them , wow!! I want to know more about 'coins on top of NXT'  .... how does it work,  what can be done with those coins?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
So could you please clarify what CfB means? Does he want to increase the Nxt supply some day?

No, NXT supply will stay the same, NXTs can only be destroyed when they are sent ot the Genesis account, new NXTs cannot be created.

Here is a link for you that answers most questions on the antideflation that CfB is talking about:
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/how-does-the-nxt-monetary-system-work/

Thank you so much for that link! That clarifies it. I am happy again now Smiley So that means that hard money advocates can use the hard money Nxt while Freicoin-like guys can create their price stable money on top of Nxt? Great! I like Nxt more every day Smiley

Tell your friends  Cheesy Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 252
So could you please clarify what CfB means? Does he want to increase the Nxt supply some day?

No, NXT supply will stay the same, NXTs can only be destroyed when they are sent ot the Genesis account, new NXTs cannot be created.

Here is a link for you that answers most questions on the antideflation that CfB is talking about:
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/how-does-the-nxt-monetary-system-work/

Thank you so much for that link! That clarifies it. I am happy again now Smiley So that means that hard money advocates can use the hard money Nxt while Freicoin-like guys can create their price stable money on top of Nxt? Great! I like Nxt more every day Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
So could you please clarify what CfB means? Does he want to increase the Nxt supply some day?

No, NXT supply will stay the same, NXTs can only be destroyed when they are sent to the Genesis account, new NXTs cannot be created.

Here is a link for you that answers most questions on the antideflation that CfB is talking about:
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/how-does-the-nxt-monetary-system-work/
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 252
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?




"Antideflation" == Inflation?

No.

Inflation is the expansion of Nxt supply IMO. Maybe by saying antideflation is not inflation CfB has a different concept of inflation: inflation as a rise in price of Nxt measured in something else. Than with increasing the Nxt supply you could keep the price stable which would rise otherwise. From my perspective it would be very sad, if Nxt did not have a stable supply of 1 billion, since I see Deflation (of price) just as Voluntold. So could you please clarify what CfB means? Does he want to increase the Nxt supply some day?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?




"Antideflation" == Inflation?

No.
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 253
Logo is nice too Wink
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?

I see no good reason to expect wealth concentration and a static community of holders. I mean its true that a large stake holder will tend to make larger transactions than a smaller stake holder meaning a smaller percentage of his wealth will be consumed in fees, but you need to also assume that larger stake holder will tend to redeploy a smaller percentage of their nxt worth than a smaller stake holder. Do we we have any data to support this? Granted wealthy people tend to consume a smaller percentage of their net worth but are they not, in general, more diversified in their investments than less wealthy people?

The point is that, maybe its true, im not saying that it isnt, but we simply lack the data necessary to come to a determination either way.

Yeah, I tried to compare it to the argument about how people are still willing to spend their money on technology items, fully knowing that they will become cheaper and obsolete soon after purchase.  I'm totally against inflating the supply personally, as I don't think there's any proof that deflation (even though I wouldn't call nxt deflationary unless people start sending their nxt to the genesis account) is a bad thing.  In fact, I think it's very advantageous for governments/central banks to 'teach' people the opposite, that inflation is good and deflation is bad bad bad.  

too me stable purchasing power is most ideal. i think this could be achieved in a crypto by having a supply that never stops inflating at a constant rate (i.e. 50 coins per block forever) because eventually the value of the new coins produced would reach an equilibrium with the cost to individuals of sufficiently securing their coins inorder to prevent an amount from being lost which is greater than the amount of coins being produced in each block. that is to say, eventually the money supply would be inflated to the point where its value was such that people took only enough care to protect their coins from loss that the amount lost in each 10 minute period equaled the amount of new coins produced in that block. (assuming blocks were produced every 10 minutes). If i made a crypto this is how i would do it.

Sounds a bit like Doge. After 600,000 blocks the block reward will be 10k coins per block for every more.

the only good thing about that coin. not enough though. i dont own any.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?

I see no good reason to expect wealth concentration and a static community of holders. I mean its true that a large stake holder will tend to make larger transactions than a smaller stake holder meaning a smaller percentage of his wealth will be consumed in fees, but you need to also assume that larger stake holder will tend to redeploy a smaller percentage of their nxt worth than a smaller stake holder. Do we we have any data to support this? Granted wealthy people tend to consume a smaller percentage of their net worth but are they not, in general, more diversified in their investments than less wealthy people?

The point is that, maybe its true, im not saying that it isnt, but we simply lack the data necessary to come to a determination either way.

Yeah, I tried to compare it to the argument about how people are still willing to spend their money on technology items, fully knowing that they will become cheaper and obsolete soon after purchase.  I'm totally against inflating the supply personally, as I don't think there's any proof that deflation (even though I wouldn't call nxt deflationary unless people start sending their nxt to the genesis account) is a bad thing.  In fact, I think it's very advantageous for governments/central banks to 'teach' people the opposite, that inflation is good and deflation is bad bad bad.  

too me stable purchasing power is most ideal. i think this could be achieved in a crypto by having a supply that never stops inflating at a constant rate (i.e. 50 coins per block forever) because eventually the value of the new coins produced would reach an equilibrium with the cost to individuals of sufficiently securing their coins inorder to prevent an amount from being lost which is greater than the amount of coins being produced in each block. that is to say, eventually the money supply would be inflated to the point where its value was such that people took only enough care to protect their coins from loss that the amount lost in each 10 minute period equaled the amount of new coins produced in that block. (assuming blocks were produced every 10 minutes). If i made a crypto this is how i would do it.

Sounds a bit like Doge. After 600,000 blocks the block reward will be 10k coins per block for every more.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?

I see no good reason to expect wealth concentration and a static community of holders. I mean its true that a large stake holder will tend to make larger transactions than a smaller stake holder meaning a smaller percentage of his wealth will be consumed in fees, but you need to also assume that larger stake holder will tend to redeploy a smaller percentage of their nxt worth than a smaller stake holder. Do we we have any data to support this? Granted wealthy people tend to consume a smaller percentage of their net worth but are they not, in general, more diversified in their investments than less wealthy people?

The point is that, maybe its true, im not saying that it isnt, but we simply lack the data necessary to come to a determination either way.

Yeah, I tried to compare it to the argument about how people are still willing to spend their money on technology items, fully knowing that they will become cheaper and obsolete soon after purchase.  I'm totally against inflating the supply personally, as I don't think there's any proof that deflation (even though I wouldn't call nxt deflationary unless people start sending their nxt to the genesis account) is a bad thing.  In fact, I think it's very advantageous for governments/central banks to 'teach' people the opposite, that inflation is good and deflation is bad bad bad.  

too me stable purchasing power is most ideal. i think this could be achieved in a crypto by having a supply that never stops inflating at a constant rate (i.e. 50 coins per block forever) because eventually the value of the new coins produced would reach an equilibrium with the cost to individuals of sufficiently securing their coins inorder to prevent an amount from being lost which is greater than the amount of coins being produced in each block. that is to say, eventually the money supply would be inflated to the point where its value was such that people took only enough care to protect their coins from loss that the amount lost in each 10 minute period equaled the amount of new coins produced in that block. (assuming blocks were produced every 10 minutes). If i made a crypto this is how i would do it.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Just reading your economic paper: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwAGADgnQcrtdXE5MkF5S05oaHM/edit?pli=1

Some questions:
-Do you want Nxt to be used as money (medium of exchange + store of value)? Because on page 4 I read "Deflation is not much better than inflation. 'Real' coins should be created on top of Nxt, and be issued in quantities that keep their value constant."

-Do you want to increase the amount of 1 billion Nxt? On page 4 it says "there is no limit for a specific type of monetary expansion".

I really like Nxt, but these economics discourage my enthusiasm Sad

i too am quite interested in NXT, i'd be interested for an answer to this too as coming from a tradtional mine and trade crypto background I dont quite get the payment system platforms like NXT and Ripple

nxt should always be used as "the money" inside of the nxt ecosystem because the security of the network is atleast partially a function of the price of nxt.

the 1 billion amount can never be changed except with a hard fork. just like bitcoin.

https://nxtforum.org/general/%27pos-stands-for-something-other-than-%27stake%27%27/

Here I read from allbits:
    "The reason why having a fixed never-growing supply is undesirable is obvious: it encourages wealth concentration and creates a static community of holders without an effective way for new people to get in, and it means that the coin has no way to incentive any specific kind of activity in the long term."

CfB answers:
"Antideflation is the last key element of Nxt. It's supposed to solve this problem."

Does this mean that Nxters in the end want to inflate the Nxt supply somehow?

I see no good reason to expect wealth concentration and a static community of holders. I mean its true that a large stake holder will tend to make larger transactions than a smaller stake holder meaning a smaller percentage of his wealth will be consumed in fees, but you need to also assume that larger stake holder will tend to redeploy a smaller percentage of their nxt worth than a smaller stake holder. Do we we have any data to support this? Granted wealthy people tend to consume a smaller percentage of their net worth but are they not, in general, more diversified in their investments than less wealthy people?

The point is that, maybe its true, im not saying that it isnt, but we simply lack the data necessary to come to a determination either way.

Yeah, I tried to compare it to the argument about how people are still willing to spend their money on technology items, fully knowing that they will become cheaper and obsolete soon after purchase.  I'm totally against inflating the supply personally, as I don't think there's any proof that deflation (even though I wouldn't call nxt deflationary unless people start sending their nxt to the genesis account) is a bad thing.  In fact, I think it's very advantageous for governments/central banks to 'teach' people the opposite, that inflation is good and deflation is bad bad bad.  
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
The way I read it, the individual forgers will choose a minimum fee they are willing to accept.  

The individual users will select a fee they are willing to pay.  As long as the fee of the user is above the fee of the forger, the transaction goes through.  The forger will get all of the fee offered up by the user, not just the minimum.  

The the users fee is too low, then the transaction will wait for the next block or for any block that will process it.  

I am not really sure if this is going to be implemented or not.  

Originally, I thought it was strange, but after thinking about it more, it is a really nice system.  After a while the free market will sort out an average known price for making sure a transaction goes through.

The problem with choosing a set price like 1 or .01 or .001 is it is so subjective and will constantly have to be changed as the price of NXT goes up and down.  

Static fees just don't represent a free market.  

Yes i strongly support this. I hope that JLP will implement this sometime. However it may be wise not to until the point at which at least even the most marginal demand exceeds supply.

Oh wow.  I hadn't heard of this before, but yeah, perfect idea.  Let the free market decide on the fee like it should be.  I hope this is implemented as well.  I don't see any point in waiting though...

The argument against waiting is that uncountably forgers would be willing to process transactions for free. This would mean that most people would submit transactions without paying any fee at all. This would reduce the incentive for people to forge. This would negatively impact the security of the network.

Ah, I think I see what you're saying.  So you (or others) think there would be some forgers that that wouldn't bother setting the fee up at all?...

Idk. I mean im just making the argument, that doesnt mean i agree with it. It would be interesting because the only reason you would set it to 0 is out of generosity, but it probably wouldn't actually be good for the network for you to do that, meaning it wouldn't actually be generous at all. So i really dont know if anyone would do that.

Hmm... Definitely hard to predict what people would do.  Idk either.  But if it is a bit of an experiment, than I see it as all the more reason try the 'experiment' sooner rather than later, before it gets too big.  But that would have to be up to the community obviously.
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