Topic: NXT coin - A total scam? - page 15. (Read 49715 times)

agreed. for now though, NXT is about as good as it gets for 100% POS currnecy. its like a prototype really.

I hope one day someone will devise a way to launch a 100% PoS currency without distributing all coins in the genesis block...
On that day I'll sell all my NXTs and buy new coins.

botnets would immediately have the advantage, right? i see the point you are making, but i'm not conceding it. where there is a will there is a way.

This won't work. Do u believe me or should we conduct an experiment?

seed all addresses with .001 coin, and restrict to `1 coin per client.

PM me if one day u manage to find a good solution of "premine" problem, please.

Ok i tried, but there seems to be a problem when all the mined coins go back to owners of premined coins, and we get similar situation as with NxT.. So you were more or less right right after all:) Apart from a messy solution i see nothing else to solve PoS intial distribution problem at the moment.

Here is how it happens with PoS mining.

(1) - Small premine, than for a first block instead of using P2P client do forum/email based selling of initial premine for a fixed/agreed upon price(in BTC, EUR,...), basicly exactly what NxT did, but with a very small amount, for example 10k coins.
(2) - So basicly now we have a NxT blockchain with for example 72 people having coins, but instead of milions of coins, there is only 10k coins.
(3) - We than make a system online, together with a first exchange, and that 72 people make their nodes online and start mining coins with for example 1 coin per block, and increasing over the first 2 weaks(so people have the chance to be first adopters) to lets say 25 coin per block. After that, we use whatever algoritem we want, we can just copy bitcoin halving revard every x blocks, or use whatever we want
(4) - Mined coin gets distributed the same way as transaction fees do in current NxT system(a bigger stakeholder gets more) so a stake holder with 20% of all money would also get 20% of all the new mined coins, meaning we have the same problem as with NxT, initial stakeholder never lose their big share of all money(if they have nodes online, which they do if they smart).


A messy solution: destroying BTC:) or any other cryptocurrency(can be/must be temporary just for initial distribution over few months)
--- a coin that is bought with BTC from a "system" has a bigger cut from mining, acording to date(number of blockchain) it was bought.
--- we use destroying BTC/LTC,.. as a means of creating coins from thin air, we prove destroying and get coins in exchange.

I do believe u.

Let's add small premine and continue the experiment.
Ur turn.

I didn't say you can have 0% predistributed(in this case you are right you need at least some for first blocks) i just said you don't need 100% like NxT has.

But predistributed could easily by like 100 coins and than in one week you can have 100000 coins if you want, so the predistributed coins can be negligable, like 0.001% no problem.

But yes even if only a small amount of coins are predistributed you still need to sell them, like NxT is doing. Because in PoS the only way to have coins is to buy them, they can only be made from coins.



See i don't need 60minutes, i spend all the evenings and nights on last 2 weeks(last two days i went to sleep at 6:00 AM) thinking about a good PoS implementation with stability algoritm and fair distribution. Maybe you will not believe me, but i came up with PoS on my own, before i even read on the internet that PoS exists!

Ok. Let's conduct an experiment. We have a non-premined 100% PoS coin. Tell me how u would generate first 3 blocks.

I'll be there in a hour, u have 60 minutes to post ur answer. Don't post the 1st idea that comes to ur mind, think 60 minutes plz.

What is wrong with just adding to existing NxT code someting saying: for every transaction revard a node gets, make X amount(a predefined %) of new coins and add those coins to this revard. Simple and working. Yes it is not mining, its something else, but i use word mining cause more people know it.

Saying 100% PoS need a 100% predistributed(or premined or whatever you want to all it) is just plain wrong. So the one that said that on the youtube marketing video is plain lieing or doesn't know how PoS works. PoS is a system for proving ANYTHING, just like PoW. If it can prove transactions it can prove new coins. It can prove anything it is not limited...

I think its wrong to use the term "premine" in regards to NxT. It should be clear, that NxT has nothing to do with mining... Don't you see that as soon as you use the word "premine" in your critics about NxT, you make it easy for supporters to dismiss your whole argument just because of a misused word?

Nevertheless, distribution was kinda dubious. The timespan for distribution was rather short, so there wasn't enough time to get many users on board.

With a pure PoS coin, the maingoal (imo) should be the distribution to as many users as possible. That's not hard to accomplish... just stretch out the investerphase at least till launch. Only issue TestNxT for the open alpha/beta.. why would you need "real"NxT to test and develop the network?

Then, after a few month, when the client and network is setup, enough time would have passed to establish a wider base of investors so to prevent a too concentrated distribution at launch.

The inventor could also promote distribution after launch by reserving/buying like 10-20% of NxT at presale price and then selling them in batches every week at presale price for the first few months. That would make NxT stable in the beginning which would attract even more users.

Maybe this approach is flawed ( honestly I would really appreciate it, if someone could point out these possible flaws), but I guess  that there are possibilities for a fairer distribution, if enough thought is put into this matter.

_____________________

EDIT: Thought about it a little more.. the idea with issued TestNxT seems to be not possible in a PoS system... so that argument is flawed.

Reserving/buying NxT by the inventor to redistribute them in batches after launch at presale price could work, but there may be a trust problem..

Sorry for posting this prematurely without thinking long enough about it..

Let me know when u launch such a system, plz. I'll show u why this doesn't work. It must be 100% PoS, though.

Well, there are PLENTY of ways to do it without much premine. System would simply make more coins based on any algoritm and distrubute this coin by any algoritm. For example, a simple algoritm could just be something similar to bitcoin for making coins and PoS weighted system(the same one NxT uses for transaction conformations) could be used to distrubute this made coin to online nodes. Basicly just add the new made coins to the earned bonus for transaction conformation, a simple source code change really.

Besides this simple algoritm i am workingon some complicated one with stability functionality, but that is another story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute

Why can't it exist?

Sorry if I failed to explain u the idea of service providing, my English is not so good.



There can't be official statement in a decentralized system. "...the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard" tells that further discussion doesn't make much sense. So be it.

Do you actually understand the nature of PoS? How would you begin distributing this system?

OMG, a 3rd party service is called that way for a reason, it does NOT affect transaction blockchain, its 3rd party. So my point still stands, fees are the only incentive to run a node for transaction blockchain integrity and this has problems.

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

EVERY other normal coin, there is new coin made from something(mining usualy) and you can you know, somehow earn/make coin. On Nxt the only way to get coin is that you somehow buy that initial 100% premined coin. WTF is wrong with you people. Some people really deserve to be scamed for their stupidity! Even Central banks for FIAT are not this bad usualy when they isue a currency! No wonder central banks scam people, if a even more obvious scam is possible by NxT. On a forum where people are thought to know at least a little about economy...

Initial holders control the release of money to the mases for gods sake, wake up.



I still hope NxT releases source code, technicaly it is suposedly a very good 100% PoS system and this can be used for some other alt.

Actually no. Nxt offers (will offer) different services built on top of the core. U can become a service provider and earn money, not fees. For example, u can run special programs hosted on the blockchain and earn coins by finding solutions (Distributed Computing feature, similar to BOINC). Without processing blocks u won't be able to do that.



All founders bought their NXT. Only BCNext got them for free, coz he paid 1 BTC back to himself (at least he said that he was going to invest 1 BTC). But he spent his time to write the code. If u thought about this a bit more u wouldn't say it's premined. Be a man and accept that statement "Nxt is 100% premined" is just a lie.