Oh no, VS again. And global warming in addition. Where this thread will go in future? UFO? 
yeah, its sunday....
But at all, its not clear if they talk about global warming in general or anthropocentric global warming?
Hmmm, anyway...
Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1342. (Read 2761645 times)
yeah, its sunday....
But at all, its not clear if they talk about global warming in general or anthropocentric global warming?
Hmmm, anyway...
Conference Update #12
eB101 and myself have been walking around shaking hands today and we started to discuss community organization on the international side. eB101 is heading to France very soon and has a couple meetings lined up to discuss Nxt and see if we can get some traction in that market.
I feel like we could use someone that is in charge of international initiatives so that we can have a coordinated and uniform marketing across all countries. eB101 said that he would be willing to step in that role and help out the community.
I would like to get the communities thoughts on this and see if we can make this happen.
eB101 and myself have been walking around shaking hands today and we started to discuss community organization on the international side. eB101 is heading to France very soon and has a couple meetings lined up to discuss Nxt and see if we can get some traction in that market.
I feel like we could use someone that is in charge of international initiatives so that we can have a coordinated and uniform marketing across all countries. eB101 said that he would be willing to step in that role and help out the community.
I would like to get the communities thoughts on this and see if we can make this happen.
I was thinking of the voting issue as well. So far, a pattern is emerging.
Let v be the voting function, mapping the amount x in one account to it's voting weight: v(x) -> weight of voting. Let's further assume v is monotonically increasing (the more you have the more your vote weigh in) and differentiable (so we have a v').
There are three cases:
1) v' is increasing => merging accounts is more valuable regarding voting => merging encouraged
2) v' is constant => 1 Nxt = 1 Vote; conservative; no change encouraged
3) v' is decreasing => splitting accounts is more valuable regarding voting => splitting encouraged
From my perspective, distribution of nxts is a good thing. So, higher amounts of fees are a good thing. Therefore, splitting and merging accounts should be encouraged as big shareholders then have to give away fees. These fees are then given to the ones forging and stabilizing the network.
On the other hand, splitting and merging just because somebody wants to act in the best interest of the network seem to me like spoon-feeding that somebody.
So, why not making v dependent of the amount of fee somebody is willing to pay for it. I favor a logarithmic scale: v(fee) = log(fee).
In that case, one could even imagine that these special fees aren't just given to block forgers but are evenly distributed among 'all voters' or 'winners' or 'loosers' of the voting session.
So, voting is encouraged.
Let v be the voting function, mapping the amount x in one account to it's voting weight: v(x) -> weight of voting. Let's further assume v is monotonically increasing (the more you have the more your vote weigh in) and differentiable (so we have a v').
There are three cases:
1) v' is increasing => merging accounts is more valuable regarding voting => merging encouraged
2) v' is constant => 1 Nxt = 1 Vote; conservative; no change encouraged
3) v' is decreasing => splitting accounts is more valuable regarding voting => splitting encouraged
From my perspective, distribution of nxts is a good thing. So, higher amounts of fees are a good thing. Therefore, splitting and merging accounts should be encouraged as big shareholders then have to give away fees. These fees are then given to the ones forging and stabilizing the network.
On the other hand, splitting and merging just because somebody wants to act in the best interest of the network seem to me like spoon-feeding that somebody.
So, why not making v dependent of the amount of fee somebody is willing to pay for it. I favor a logarithmic scale: v(fee) = log(fee).
In that case, one could even imagine that these special fees aren't just given to block forgers but are evenly distributed among 'all voters' or 'winners' or 'loosers' of the voting session.
So, voting is encouraged.
Please, can you put your approach in a mathematical expression?
That would be really helpful!!!
Just write it down in one or more terms.
Don't care about if its bullet proof.
If you like, you could add it to collection of voting models?
cheers
Errr, I try. Not sure, what is it exactly you need? Unfortunately, I do not find any formular symbols here.
An example; two accounts x and y:
1) Let's confine ourselves to multiple-choice-polls with some options O.
2) Each account can pay some Nxt an option o. (multiple options allowed).
3) The weight w(o) of each option o is: log( x1 + x2 ... + xn ) + log( y1 + y2 + .. + ym ) where xi are the fees paid for o by x and yi are the fees paid for o by y.
4) The set of options O can be sorted by the weights of each option.
-----------------------------
4) Some aspect which come to my mind recently would be an aging effect. That is each coin spent on an option is worth less and less in the future.
In the example above:
w(o) = log( x1/tx1 + x2/tx2 ... + xn/txn ) + log( y1/ty1 + y2/ty2 + .. + ym/tym ) where txi and tyi is the amount of time passed since spending on option o.
4) would force account holders to repay their opinions if they find them worth it. So diminishing their stake over time.
Alright, that sums it up.
Nxt subject = NXT.
Nxt subject = NXT.
You're being condescending to a large part of the Nxt community, which is unhelpful in any discussion. My opinion is that GW should be left out of Nxt marketing. Discussing the fact that Nxt is energy efficient should be promoted though.
I am being condescending to those who are disrespectful to the people who have devoted their entire lifes to seek the truth and illuminate the public about this. Yes. I am 100% proud of being condescending towards those people.
This is not a matter of politics and opinions, this is a matter of life and death for MILLIONS of people in this world, today, not some projected dystopian future scenario. This is occuring today!
If you do not accept science as a GPS then wtf do you accept? Your own fantasy? Then you are a solipsist.
AND AGAIN: I AM NOT THE ONE who wanted drama. I am simply stating the current state of science and highlighting how we can gain a HUGE marketing advantage due to it.
If we send the math to different sci and tech magazines they will run a lot of stories comparing NXT to Bitcoin in the grand scheme of things.
If you google Bitcoin + emissions you will see that there are already hundreds of articles on this. How the fuck are we going to turn down that oppourtunity due to a few ignorants?
Are we going to become the CyberWallstreet? Devoid of morals and only caring about our own wallets? Am I the only one here who actually cares about NXTs potential to make a huge impact on the worlds economy and environment?
Alright, this is all I'm going to say on the subject. Global warming is based on a small snapshot of data, just as global cooling was in the 70's. Zoom the data out using ice cores and rock samples, and it becomes clear this is a natural cycle and the Earth is far cooler than it has been in the past while supporting life. Global warming alarmist ignore the expansion of the ice shelves the last few years and that global avreage temperature has actually been cooler, because it doesn't fit their need for a crisis. Less than 40 years ago we thought the world was going to freeze, now we think it's going to burn up? I'm all for conservation and reducing our footprint, but stop screaming that the sky is falling. It isn't.
Humans have released about 4% of the Earth's CO2 through our entire existence. Cows.....yes, cows release more CO2 per year than humans.
Every generation needs a crisis, and this is ours. Global Warming is an industry, not reality.
Everyone has an opinion and I don't think it matters that much if people want to express that but for sure it won't help Nxt to get caught up in such issues.
I think it's fine that people want to express their opinions, but there are places for that. Want to discuss whether AGW is real, and whether NXT can make an impact? Fine, start a thread at nxtcrypto or nextcoin and post a link to it here, instead of trying to stuff another conversation into this megathread.
~24 hours ago, I was talking about the How To Generate a Secure Password wiki page. Pretty much every post and reply I made, I invited people to register on the wiki and comment on the Talk page. I kept linking to it like this. Agree/disagree with my exposition/offered method? Have ideas? Want to make changes? All great!
But please do it where it's appropriate! I don't want to have to keep digging through this 1000+ page lump to find info.(And after all that, no one has yet to write anything in the Talk page, including people who have commented about it and are already registered on the wiki. (i.e. who don't have to wait to register.) This tells me something about how much folks really care
)Uniqueorn, you and other folks should know by now how difficult it is to communicate in this thread.
Oh no, VS again. And global warming in addition. Where this thread will go in future? UFO?
Are we going to become the CyberWallstreet? Devoid of morals and only caring about our own wallets? Am I the only one here who actually cares about NXTs potential to make a huge impact on the worlds economy and environment?
Dude. Go to the second graph in this article, add lines plotting the levels of BTC and NXT electricity usage that you calculate ON THAT SCALE to show us the HUGE IMPACT switching to NXT from BTC is going to make, and return to us here with your updated graphic for us to use in our marketing materials.
http://randompolicy.blogspot.com/2010/11/iea-2010-world-energy-outlook.html
Someone already made a great post about this: https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3188.0.html
Please stop discussing global warming and any related political issues here.
+100.
Are we going to become the CyberWallstreet? Devoid of morals and only caring about our own wallets? Am I the only one here who actually cares about NXTs potential to make a huge impact on the worlds economy and environment?
Dude. Go to the second graph in this article, add lines plotting the levels of BTC and NXT electricity usage that you calculate ON THAT SCALE to show us the HUGE IMPACT switching to NXT from BTC is going to make, and return to us here with your updated graphic for us to use in our marketing materials.
http://randompolicy.blogspot.com/2010/11/iea-2010-world-energy-outlook.html
You're being condescending to a large part of the Nxt community, which is unhelpful in any discussion. My opinion is that GW should be left out of Nxt marketing. Discussing the fact that Nxt is energy efficient should be promoted though.
I am being condescending to those who are disrespectful to the people who have devoted their entire lifes to seek the truth and illuminate the public about this. Yes. I am 100% proud of being condescending towards those people.
This is not a matter of politics and opinions, this is a matter of life and death for MILLIONS of people in this world, today, not some projected dystopian future scenario. This is occuring today!
If you do not accept science as a GPS then wtf do you accept? Your own fantasy? Then you are a solipsist.
AND AGAIN: I AM NOT THE ONE who wanted drama. I am simply stating the current state of science and highlighting how we can gain a HUGE marketing advantage due to it.
If we send the math to different sci and tech magazines they will run a lot of stories comparing NXT to Bitcoin in the grand scheme of things.
If you google Bitcoin + emissions you will see that there are already hundreds of articles on this. How the fuck are we going to turn down that oppourtunity due to a few ignorants?
Are we going to become the CyberWallstreet? Devoid of morals and only caring about our own wallets? Am I the only one here who actually cares about NXTs potential to make a huge impact on the worlds economy and environment?
Conference Update #11
I spoke with the guys at Hive today. They have a pretty slick OSX wallet that is super easy to use. They are about to expand to android as well as looking for a colored coins type of implementation to accept all cryptos.
I spoke with them about our Asset Exchange/Colored coins feature and they are wanting to get in contact to figure out our release time frame as well as the possibilities of using Nxt for this.
****ACTION ITEM****
We need to see if we can get a possible date for implantation, which may just be some research, and put together some other info for them and get our devs in contact with them.
I spoke with the guys at Hive today. They have a pretty slick OSX wallet that is super easy to use. They are about to expand to android as well as looking for a colored coins type of implementation to accept all cryptos.
I spoke with them about our Asset Exchange/Colored coins feature and they are wanting to get in contact to figure out our release time frame as well as the possibilities of using Nxt for this.
****ACTION ITEM****
We need to see if we can get a possible date for implantation, which may just be some research, and put together some other info for them and get our devs in contact with them.
If people like you managed to accept that it is a matter of science and not a matter of politics, SURE.
All the more reason this world needs a technocracy more than anything. Too many idiots in power.
All the more reason this world needs a technocracy more than anything. Too many idiots in power.
Oh boy... I hope you take it well when you actually decide to take a look at the meteorological data.
My best friend is meteorologist and he told me something different.
That aside though ... I don't think we should keep discussing this, even though I agree with Uniqueorn here.
From an OBJECTIVE marketing standpoint and the target audience we are trying to reach at this point in time, I agree that it would be unwise to take a stand on this topic which is obviously controversial among the target audience (as we've already seen in this thread).
The best middle ground is energy and cost efficient. I think we should leave it at that.
The damn ignorance and arrogance is just staggering and baffling.
I guess it is safe to assume that you don't have a good relationship with mirrors.
...that is me crying by the way...
Ugh every community has people like you. And it's clear you just want to generate drama and that is the last thing we need.
I am bringing up a scientific issue with over 97% consensus. EVERY meta-study conducted shows the exact same thing.
I bring it up as a marketing strategy for NXT and also because I genuinely give a fuck about these issues beyond just my own wallet.
But like I have already said a few times now: if you take a look at the math of Bitcoin and it's carbon footprint then you will see just how significant this is. There are a ton of articles about this out there. It's basically a free marketing chance.
But instead you want to discuss your ignorance, goddamn...
Please stop discussing global warming and any related political issues here.
If people like you managed to accept that it is a matter of science and not a matter of politics, SURE.
All the more reason this world needs a technocracy more than anything. Too many idiots in power.
Also: no we are going to discuss this as it is also a part of our marketing strategy.
Just saying that something is "green" and "environmentally friendly" is just empty buzzwords without consequences.
The fact is that global warming is currently making millions of people refugees, it is a very pressing matter.
And the other truth is, if Bitcoin becomes the currency of the future it will contribute HUGELY to this. That is a GREAT selling point for NXT compared to just saying "it's green, but hey it doesn't really matter because there is a magical ecosystem on earth that isn't affected regardless of what happens
"You're being condescending to a large part of the Nxt community, which is unhelpful in any discussion. My opinion is that GW should be left out of Nxt marketing. Discussing the fact that Nxt is energy efficient should be promoted though.
In the end, noone will ever use that voting system for a global view on things.
But... I though we agreed to take over the world..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A
UNLESS
The Nxt client is distributed via Nxt itself. Then, changes (aka pull requests on https://github.com/) to the client can be voted on by the community. That would be real democracy.
I only fear that's gonna be very technical for most users.
The Nxt client is distributed via Nxt itself. Then, changes (aka pull requests on https://github.com/) to the client can be voted on by the community. That would be real democracy.
I only fear that's gonna be very technical for most users.
Leave it with the opinion function. More could mean a disaster.
For now, yeah. The client distribution is for the future.
Quote
1 nxt = 1 voice is fine. Case solved. Now implement it! 
Unfortunately, it is not.
If it is just the opinion function, then we could leave it well alone.
When you really want to gather the opinion of the network, you cannot rely on the 73 whales. BUT, you will always get the opinion of the 73. Nothing more. In the end, noone will ever use that voting system for a global view on things.
If people like you managed to accept that it is a matter of science and not a matter of politics, SURE.
All the more reason this world needs a technocracy more than anything. Too many idiots in power.
All the more reason this world needs a technocracy more than anything. Too many idiots in power.
Oh boy... I hope you take it well when you actually decide to take a look at the meteorological data.
I have ;( A close friend of mine is actually PhDing in this subject.
And it just brings back the fact that everytime you pretend there is a scientific debate about this, you are telling me that EVERYONE who has a PhD, that is YEARS AND YEARS of studies and YEARS AND YEARS of experiments know less about this matter than you.
The damn ignorance and arrogance is just staggering and baffling.
I'm not trying to start a debate with ignorants over this, I've ran into way too many UFO hunters in my life to care to waste calories on that.
To me what matters is how NXT fits into it and NXT fits into it perfectly by reducing the emissions to virtually zero with a Raspberry Pi with solar panels.
please anyone explain me why the voting system is needed?
give me one concrete example why it could be useful.
give me one concrete example why it could be useful.
it is not needed, its just a feature.
VS can be used in same way as forum poll.
Dev's and administrators can collect opinions.
Assets are another example for using VS.
=> I think it becomes clear that we need different boundary conditions for different poll categories.
All in all it transfers the voting to the nxt network, creating fees and you have all polls in one scope.
One big issue with that distributed and anonymous voting system is:
Who is gonna enforce the outcome? Actually, nobody.
A great politician once said: Never make rule you cannot enforce.
So, this voting system only for gathering opinions.
UNLESS
The Nxt client is distributed via Nxt itself. Then, changes (aka pull requests on https://github.com/) to the client can be voted on by the community. That would be real democracy.
I only fear that's gonna be very technical for most users.
Who is gonna enforce the outcome? Actually, nobody.
A great politician once said: Never make rule you cannot enforce.
So, this voting system only for gathering opinions.
UNLESS
The Nxt client is distributed via Nxt itself. Then, changes (aka pull requests on https://github.com/) to the client can be voted on by the community. That would be real democracy.
I only fear that's gonna be very technical for most users.
the only reasonable VS would be if the Nxt network itself can enforce the outcome of a voting.
this would be like coding an AI -> it's impossible.
Coding an AI is not impossible.
But enforcing virtual issues in the real world can only be done by humans or robots controlled by Nxt.
Both alternatives are highly unlikely either because they aren't reliable (the humans) and might even be very dangerous (the robots).
The only way for the Nxt network to enforce something at all, it to control the distribution of the correct Nxt client.
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