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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1480. (Read 2761645 times)

sr. member
Activity: 264
Merit: 250
KLONE has the very great honour of announcing our second genesis block inductee  ... PiNX


[ANN] PiNX :: descendant of NXT — So much YUM
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-pinx-descendant-of-nxt-so-much-yum-424202


Quote
PiNX is the first 100% Proof-of-Stake (PoS) currency designed EXCLUSIVELY for the Raspberry Pi

That's enough to get anyone excited!!

Welcome PiNX

You thoroughly deserve your '::' and your place in the KLONE genesis block is now secure!
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear that there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets-polls" is different category as "best button color-polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:
- min. permitted Account Deposit
- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)
- poll duration (Blocks)
- Voting Fee

Voting Models
- 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }
- 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}
- 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...


Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" ideas!!!
It makes sense to collect all to keep the overview.

The discussion about "selection options"  was already started by Anon136 and CIYAM...
sr. member
Activity: 602
Merit: 268
Internet of Value
We are derailing from our goal.

If the voting system leads to this kinds of reactions and discussions in the community we have to set it aside till emotions calmed down.

Many of us our angry and with reason but not all founders have left us alone in the cold, we all know which ones where always there to support the community.

This is of importance to take into account and try to understand why people react like utopianfuture and many others

Not all wounds are healed. Give it some more time. We don’t have to punish the good with the bad.

Let us focus on the upcoming client and promotion campaigns for that, we pick the voting back up later when NXT is 10$


Pin


Hey I am pretty calm but at some point I had to make some forceful statements. Some people mistakenly thought we are Google with a secret algorithm that can be kept from the
eyes of the public forever. But it is not the case here as we are in an open source community. Maybe BCNext would try to delay the whole source code as far as he can. But more  
likely is  that the source codes will be out in 3 months or 6 month at the latest. Now let's say Litecoin was born only 6 months apart of Bitcoin, which one do you think would win ?

You can't prevent forks and I would say that's about as sure as any sure thing in this world. Now coming back to my earlier statement about me making a fork, well I won't be able to make one until it is as easy as making a clone in coingen. So you probably won't need to worry about me. But you would need to face that reality. Someone with good technical capability would come around and make a fork that can approach NXT's technical capability;  probably not FrictionlessCoin but someone else will.

Please dont let people see NXT as rich guy club. NXT should be a network for free people, for decentralization, for community involvement and against corrupted centralized governments. That image is everything. That is something an average user could aspire for. It could make NXT to be a sustainable movement as Bitcoin is. Voting issue is about a core feature of NXT as any other important features.

 




 

legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
As a stakeholder from day 1 I have no real issue on how to vote.
That said I cannot decide who is right or wrong here so it is a vicious cycle!

How to cut the Gordian knot?

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
Philosophy should not be confused with software development.  Let the software influence philosophy after it's been written.
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future
Well, the last 50 pages was a struggle. Does anyone else think that we need:

 - Rock solid idiot-proof multiplatform clients
 - User-friendly account numbers with error detection
 - An API that sites can develop against to safely accept nxt funds as payments
 - Money transfers using send-to-alias
 - Online wallet with security similar to blockchain.info
 
... before we need a perfect (which, so sorry, is not possible) voting system?

BC.NXT just send me a PM.

"Here's a fun game for the community. If you can go 20 pages without discussing VS I will reveal the first character of the password to the genesis block"

Challenge, guys.


Aw man you have the direct line with the man... awesome!
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
The problem with modern democracy today is every idiot is allowed to vote. I actually believe that democratic systems of government will be severely restricted or abolished in the west in the future because the average citizen are getting more and more stupid.


This is a large topic in political science which I have studied and my conclusion is that for the system to come to wise decisions there must be a difference in voting power based on the wealth of participants or else you get to many idiots, resembling modern mass democracy where a professor is equal to a bum.


So you studied PolSci, and your conclusion is what this bloody planet has been fighting for equal rights for everyone, by mistaken ideas?
You should be able to distinguish feudalism when you see it, based on your studies mate.

A democracy is by definition the egalitarian system that ALLOWS a bum to have an equal say with a professor on subjects that would interfere with both their lives.
You are trying to tell us that a professor should always have more power than a bum?

Or are you trying to say that a professor in the classroom should have more power than a bum?



I will try to keep this civil, honestly do you know what feudalism means? This kind of thinking that any political system outside the one we have today is fascist or feudalism is really not a nuanced view. The democratic system has changed over time as well as our cultural values. In my view the west is commiting suicide because of democracy not in spite of it. The problem with democratic systems is that everyone has an equal vote while their abilities are unequal. I would rather the professor have more say than the bum because the professor has more knowledge, a more meritocratic system would suit me. One step to a more meritocratic system is to have votes based on wealth and to have that wealth residing in the country, therefore one cares about what happens to the country. Today we don't have democracy it is more about the media funded by the banks manipulating the people to vote for whoever they want. The people will always be manipulated. I myself am drawn to the idea of an enlightened philosoper king ala platos ideas on the polity. The problem here is how do we get rid of a bad ruler? Well if we had proper mechanisms in place we could have a sort of board of directors having oversight. And if the ruler did a bad job than someone else would take his place.  Bitcoin is in essence an anti-elitist project, but the masses will always have an elite anyways.

You should read moldbug, most of the people here are libertarians or anarchists I imagine, they should have a more realistic view of mans nature and be more like neoreactionaries.

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.no/2007/12/why-i-am-not-libertarian.html

The advantage of libertarianism, from a practical political perspective, is that it has deep roots in the American value system, and it is hypothetically possible to persuade American voters to return to the values that their ancestors held in the 18th century. If they do this, they will become libertarians, vote for Ron Paul, return us to the gold standard, etc.

The disadvantage of libertarianism is (if I am right) that it is unsound as a principle of political engineering, that its historical roots are largely mythical and fantastic, and that there is no reason to think it is easy to change anyone's value system, let alone resurrect values held by distant ancestors.

The disadvantage of neocameralism is that it is completely alien to American voters, that it has no connection at all to any American value system, that no one has even heard of it at all, that it represents a complete rejection of the sacred American principle of democracy, and that it could be described, not utterly without grain of truth, as "corporate fascism" or some such similar epithet.

The advantage of neocameralism is (if I am right) that, unless you have a very perverse ethical system that glorifies violence, it can be justified logically in a few pages of text without reference to any Humean ought. It can be tested empirically, and arguably it already has been. In other words, neocameralism has no advantage except that it is a value-free proposition which is consistent with reality. Often, historically, this has been sufficient.

One way to illustrate neocameralism is to outline a strategy for restructuring Washcorp as an efficient, shareholder-owned operation. I am aware that I have promised an answer to this question before. However, this post is far too long already. Perhaps next week.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Well, the last 50 pages was a struggle. Does anyone else think that we need:

 - Rock solid idiot-proof multiplatform clients
 - User-friendly account numbers with error detection
 - An API that sites can develop against to safely accept nxt funds as payments
 - Money transfers using send-to-alias
 - Online wallet with security similar to blockchain.info
 
... before we need a perfect (which, so sorry, is not possible) voting system?

BC.NXT just send me a PM.

"Here's a fun game for the community. If you can go 20 pages without discussing VS I will reveal the first character of the password to the genesis block"

Challenge, guys.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
@NEXERN
I have ready the testnet for you!
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100

People! You are on a very destructive course right now. It is almost like watching "Moby Dick". NXT, represented here by whale is good, why kill it.

This whole voting will have the best longterm results very rarely. What ever decision we make there are multitude of factors that we do not see or understand.

Crowd decision are often very wrong. So are board decisions. We just as well could hire a shaman and do all the thinking for us with a goose leg.

Also both POS and account based vote counting can be manipulated. It's humans at work.



Still, for those who do not follow the thread 24x7, do we have a single place where decisions/voting to be made are listed? It would be lovely to have a look at this list and ponder on those items in the background.



That's how I decide to vote..... Sad
newbie
Activity: 53
Merit: 0

People! You are on a very destructive course right now. It is almost like watching "Moby Dick". NXT, represented here by whale is good, why kill it.

This whole voting will have the best longterm results very rarely. What ever decision we make there are multitude of factors that we do not see or understand.

Crowd decision are often very wrong. So are board decisions. We just as well could hire a shaman and do all the thinking for us with a goose leg.

Also both POS and account based vote counting can be manipulated. It's humans at work.



Still, for those who do not follow the thread 24x7, do we have a single place where decisions/voting to be made are listed? It would be lovely to have a look at this list and ponder on those items in the background.

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Why not 1 NXT per vote per account older than 1440 blocks at least then it slows any manipulation down.


let the big stakeholders founders come up with a proposal.

We shall see who get involved and if they find it important to have more voting power than others.

founders please discus

Pin
Ive been in since the very start and thats my view above. Although the member Alias above makes some good sugestions
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
My friends and trading colleagues asked why I chose to invest in Nxt so I made a video to explain the 3 main reasons I think someone should invest in NXT:

http://prisonorfreedom.com/3-reasons-why-you-should-invest-in-nextcoin-nxt/

Tai Zen
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
There are ways to consider the voting other than the two that have been outlined thus far, namely "1 Account = 1 Vote" and "1 NXT = 1 Vote".

The goal is "1 Human = 1 Vote" right, so here are some options to achieve or approximate that.

- Asset defined voting cards haven't been mentioned. (These can have a minimum fee to greatly reduce spam)
- Decentralised identification verification hasn't been mentioned. (Not necessarily for the entire network. Just particular groups/communities).
- Random sampling of voters hasn't been mentioned.
- Pre-voting hasn;'t been mentioned.
- Captchas havn't been mentioned.
- Random temporal voting hasn't been mentioned (you get 10 minutes to vote but at a random time for example. Logistically this would make managing multiple sock-puppet accounts difficult).
- Proof of Voter Education hasn't been mentioned (you must prove that you are educated on the topic which you are voting on for example).

All of these can use "1 Account = 1 Vote" at the protocol level. So leave it at that forever. Just like 1 NXT as a transaction fee at the protocol level is perfect. Other user-facing transaction fees can be handled by communities and DACs and off-chain payment processors etc. etc.

Please think beyond the protocol level. It will only make you dizzy to restrict your thinking that low. This is the year of emergent complexity within the wider cryptocurrency community - wake up to it and prepare yourself for it!
 
I <3 you! Now we are thinking.

Edit: 1 Human = 1 Vote and for those who wish to try to be greater than 1 Human we make it costly to do so, either by NXT, resources or time.
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future
Why not 1 NXT per vote per account older than 1440 blocks at least then it slows any manipulation down.


let the big stakeholders founders come up with a proposal.

We shall see who get involved and if they find it important to have more voting power than others.

founders please discus

Pin
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
Simpler is better.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
PGP 9CB0902E
I forgot what we have to vote for!

Voting procedures
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
NXT is the future
We are derailing from our goal.

If the voting system leads to this kinds of reactions and discussions in the community we have to set it aside till emotions calmed down.

Many of us our angry and with reason but not all founders have left us alone in the cold, we all know which ones where always there to support the community.

This is of importance to take into account and try to understand why people react like utopianfuture and many others

Not all wounds are healed. Give it some more time. We don’t have to punish the good with the bad.

Let us focus on the upcoming client and promotion campaigns for that, we pick the voting back up later when NXT is 10$


Pin
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Crypti Community Manager
Big thank you to 17994440136003933734 for the nice donation!

You are awesome! Smiley
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