NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 291.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:39:09 AM

No, I think you are imagining an utopia in your own mind that will not play out the way you expect. Its called decentralized free market. It will be driven by greed and innovation. Not by utopian ideals. It will be a human experiment and it guided by people intelligent to create innovative solutions it will thrive.

I don't have any such utopian ideals.

I am a pragmatist.

Also btw - I have invested in NXT so I have no great desire to "lose that investment".

I simply am not being delusional about what a "platform" is vs. what a "currency" is - that doesn't mean I think NXT will go "up or down" in value or that it's current price is above or below its "optimum" - the market will decide these things as it should.

eightspaces

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windjc are u posting BS on purpose or are these posts truly ur standpoint?

windjc

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:36:04 AM

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:33:51 AM

And Nxt will be used by traders in the beginning. Let that sink it.

Indeed it will be used by some traders, scammers and hobbyists and little else "in the beginning" - I am looking a little beyond that but it seems many can't see that far.

No, I think you are imagining an utopia in your own mind that will not play out the way you expect. Its called decentralized free market. It will be driven by greed and innovation. Not by utopian ideals. It will be a human experiment and if guided by people intelligent to create innovative solutions, it will thrive.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:37:03 AM

Nxt will have to adapt as things change. Its called crossing a bridge when you come to it. But now, in the reality of our present moment, most of your suggestions and inputs are just confusing the situation.

Indeed Nxt will have to adapt as will peoples understanding of what a "platform" is vs. what a "crypto currency" is.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:35:48 AM

Your confusion stems from a comment from someone who thinks too much like a programmer and not at all like a real world business person. I would mainly ignore it, although, I realize I haven't taken my own advice.

You should take your own advice - I have owned and worked in businesses for over 20 years so I think I am a "real world business person".

windjc

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:34:28 AM

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:31:48 AM

This will never sink it. Because its not true. If Nxt is worth pennies there will be no AE. You live with a non-capitalistic mindset.

I am not concerned with ideology - the *reality* is that if people are going to move to using a digital currency they are not going to choose a "Rolls Royce" but something that is efficient and cheap (if has to be *better* than using VISA or there is no point to change).

Nxt will have to adapt as things change. Its called crossing a bridge when you come to it. But now, in the reality of our present moment, most of your suggestions and inputs are just confusing the situation.

CIYAM

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Activity: 1890

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:33:51 AM

And Nxt will be used by traders in the beginning. Let that sink it.

Indeed it will be used by some traders, scammers and hobbyists and little else "in the beginning" - I am looking a little beyond that but it seems many can't see that far.

windjc

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Quote from: BrianNowhere on March 18, 2014, 12:26:00 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

Your confusion stems from a comment from someone who thinks too much like a programmer and not at all like a real world business person. I would mainly ignore it, although, I realize I haven't taken my own advice.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:31:48 AM

This will never sink it. Because its not true. If Nxt is worth pennies there will be no AE. You live with a non-capitalistic mindset.

I am not concerned with ideology - the *reality* is that if people are going to move to using a digital currency they are not going to choose a "Rolls Royce" but something that is efficient and cheap (if has to be *better* than using VISA or there is no point to change).

windjc

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:32:41 AM

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:30:15 AM

Oh. You actually believe everyday normal mom and pop types are going to be "shopping" on the Nxt platform someday soon? And on top of that, the buyer is going to pay the "fee"? Wha?

The buyer already effectively pays a fee when they use VISA because the goods they buy are that much more expensive (you can *always* get cheaper deals for cash).

It's just *hidden* from plain site (so fools *most* of the people).

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:30:15 AM

First of all, the AE will most likely be traders in the beginning. Second, isn't it common since that the seller will pay the fees? Like that VISA card you mention?

If Nxt is only going to be for "traders" then I think it is doomed from the start.

Ha! Your logic astounds me.

And Nxt will be used by traders in the beginning. Let that sink it.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:30:15 AM

Oh. You actually believe everyday normal mom and pop types are going to be "shopping" on the Nxt platform someday soon? And on top of that, the buyer is going to pay the "fee"? Wha?

The buyer already effectively pays a fee when they use VISA because the goods they buy are that much more expensive (you can *always* get cheaper deals for cash).

It's just *hidden* from plain site (so fools *most* of the people).

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:30:15 AM

First of all, the AE will most likely be traders in the beginning. Second, isn't it common since that the seller will pay the fees? Like that VISA card you mention?

If Nxt is only going to be for "traders" then I think it is doomed from the start.

windjc

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:29:33 AM

Quote from: BrianNowhere on March 18, 2014, 12:26:00 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

Good - let it "sink in" and hopefully a few others will too.

This will never sink it. Because its not true. If Nxt is worth pennies there will be no AE. You live with a non-capitalistic mindset.

windjc

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Merit: 1070

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:27:21 AM

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:25:08 AM

Users are going to flock to where its most profitable, not where its there are the cheapest fees.

Now it is you who are not making any sense - do you "profit" when you use your VISA card?

I think you don't understand who the "users" actually are - they are Mr. and Mrs. Average *buying* stuff (they don't generally think of their "fiat" as being an *investment* either).

You *use money* to pay for things - you don't decide to choose RMB *over* USD because that would be "more profitable" (at least for most people - currency speculators are another group but very much a small group).

Oh. You actually believe everyday normal mom and pop types are going to be "shopping" on the Nxt platform someday soon? And on top of that, the buyer is going to pay the "fee"? Wha?

First of all, the AE will most likely be traders in the beginning. Second, isn't it common sense that the seller will pay the fees? Like that VISA card you mention?

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: BrianNowhere on March 18, 2014, 12:26:00 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

Good - let it "sink in" and hopefully a few others will too.

CIYAM

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1086

Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:25:08 AM

Users are going to flock to where its most profitable, not where its there are the cheapest fees.

Now it is you who are not making any sense - do you "profit" when you use your VISA card?

I think you don't understand who the "users" actually are - they are Mr. and Mrs. Average *buying* stuff (they don't generally think of their "fiat" as being an *investment* either).

You *use money* to pay for things - you don't decide to choose RMB *over* USD because that would be "more profitable" (at least for most people - currency speculators are another group but very much a small group).

BrianNowhere

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

windjc

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Activity: 2156

Merit: 1070

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:21:45 AM

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:19:28 AM

If POS isn't profitable and owning Nxt is not profitable and only owning assets are profitable, no one will be around to develop the asset owning system into the future.

The future is not something we can easily predict - but if you have a choice of two platforms:

1. Fee of 1%
2. Fee of 0.01 USD

which are users going to "flock to"?

In the end it is only the "users" that matter - not peoples wishes and desires to "get rich".

Your logic makes no sense. And you did not answer my questions.

Users are going to flock to where its most profitable, not where its there are the cheapest fees. Which means, the platform that is easiest to use and has the most customers. Fees are just one fraction of the equation (have you owned a business before?)

And Nxt will be a currency. Or it won't survive. You have to have an incentive for people to own Nxt and to run nodes as POS. If not, there is not system. And if you think "creating assets" is the same thing, you are wrong.

CIYAM

legendary

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: windjc on March 18, 2014, 12:19:28 AM

If POS isn't profitable and owning Nxt is not profitable and only owning assets are profitable, no one will be around to develop the asset owning system into the future.

The future is not something we can easily predict - but if you have a choice of two platforms:

1. Fee of 1%
2. Fee of 0.01 USD

which are users going to "flock to"?

In the end it is only the "users" that matter - not peoples wishes and desires to "get rich".

windjc

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Activity: 2156

Merit: 1070

Quote from: CIYAM on March 18, 2014, 12:09:29 AM

Quote from: BrianNowhere on March 18, 2014, 12:02:19 AM

Either no one thinks Nxt could ever be worth more than a few cents or someone has a lot of confidence in the ability for this community to adapt on the fly very quickly to market forces. Also everyone will have to update software everytime this takes place.

Updating software is something I think everyone has already adapted to (in fact most likely the majority of the software you are using "updates itself").

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I think it would be a fair prediction that the price of NXT could be determined mathematically by the available supply along with the number of users and transactions.

Speculators should be looking to purchase Assets in order to "make big profits" and again the "fees" will be determined by the two main points I mentioned (if you make them too low then then network dies due to spamming and no incentive to forge and if you make them too high it dies due to competition with other such networks).

So - how low are the fees going to be?

It is a *competition* between Mastercoin, Bitshares, Ethereum and Nxt (you could call it a *race to the bottom*).

So Nxt can't be a currency and a platform? Explain why it cannot? Better yet, explain how it WILL not, since its decentralized and its users can promote it and evolve it anyway they choose. And since its in their best interest for the price to be high, how will they not promote it as a currency.

If POS isn't profitable and owning Nxt is not profitable and only owning assets are profitable, no one will be around to develop the asset owning system into the future.

windjc

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Quote from: Uniqueorn on March 17, 2014, 09:12:26 PM

Quote from: EvilDave on March 17, 2014, 08:58:43 PM

@Justabit:

No worries, mate, go have some fun in the sun. Thanks again for what u guys achieved, btw.
I may not have agreed with some aspects of your work (SoL....hmmmm Angry

) but on the whole Cointropolis did some good work.
Hows the Trek convention coming on?

I'll just 'volunteer' the next guy who opens his mouth about NXT mainstream acceptance to run the game payments idea.

I understand the cointroplois crew very well.
Dirty tactics was used by people who in the marketing committee to be elected (and the community didn't mind it, called it politics) and now NXT pay the consequences. We have a elected marketing committee but the price is the lowest it has been in 2 months. Last time me contacting BTER lead to them adding us which saved us, what will save us this time?
AE? It'll be after Mastercoin, Invictus, Counterparty.. so I doubt it'll be enough.

I think I was the first guy to propose to use NXT as ingame currency, feel free to approach any of the big game devs. Got nothing to lose

Here's a couple of novel ideas Wink

. One, how about instead of pouting over who won fair elections, we cheer on and support those who won, since we all want Nxt to become successful. Second, how did adding us to Bter "save" Nxt? Answer: it didn't. You don't save a coin buy temporarily influxing new money into it. Coins go up and down a lot when they are new. Its called volatility. Its impossible to avoid, unless you have Emunie's system and even then it probably will not be avoided early on.

Now, adding Nxt to gaming is a good idea. I support it. The more uses Nxt has, the better.

But worrying over which coin has the first AE is a waste of time. First to AE is not important. EASE OF USE of AE is much more important. Integration into AE is much more important. Adoption of AE is much more important. How do they rank - MC, Invictus, Counterparty, Emunie, Nxt? Answer: no one knows.

So the goal should be ease of use. Win that game and you are the defacto "first to market mover with advantage."

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 291. (Read 2761645 times)