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Topic: NXT/NEM or Monero/Bytecoin? (Read 5225 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
July 19, 2014, 09:34:03 AM
One thing that I've noticed over the last month and a bit since I posted this thread is the sheer ignorance of people on this message board when it comes to the topic of NXT. Everyone seems to have these preconceived notions of what NXT is and no one seems to have actually taken the time to research or ask about the truth.

Well, in atoni's case it's not ignorance, it's FUD, because there are facts that 300+ accounts generate blocks, but he stubbornly posts it's two people controlling the network.

Here is the java code that can be used to calculate active (who have forged blocks) forgers in the NXT blockchain:

Code:
import java.sql.Connection;
import java.sql.DriverManager;
import java.sql.ResultSet;
import java.sql.SQLException;
import java.sql.Statement;
import java.util.ArrayList;
import java.util.HashMap;
import java.util.Iterator;

public class inspectDB {

        public static void runQuery(int startHeight, int endHeight) {

                Connection conn = null;

                String dbUrl = "jdbc:h2:nxt_db/nxt;DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";
                dbUrl += ";DB_CLOSE_ON_EXIT=FALSE";

                try {

                        Class.forName("org.h2.Driver");

                        conn = DriverManager.getConnection(dbUrl, "sa", "sa");

                        Statement stmt = conn.createStatement();
                        // generator_public_key
                        ArrayList pubgenkeys = new ArrayList();
                        String stmtStr = "SELECT generator_public_key, height, timestamp, total_amount FROM block where total_amount >= 0 and height > "
                                        + startHeight + " and height < " + endHeight;
                        ResultSet selectRS = stmt.executeQuery(stmtStr);// total_amount
                        while (selectRS.next()) {
                                String a = selectRS.getString(1);
                                pubgenkeys.add(a);

                        }

                        Iterator it = pubgenkeys.iterator();
                        HashMap occ = new HashMap();
                        while (it.hasNext()) {
                                String cur = it.next();
                                // System.out.println(cur);
                                if (occ.containsKey(cur)) {
                                        int last = occ.get(cur).intValue();
                                        occ.remove(cur);
                                        occ.put(cur, new Integer(last + 1));
                                } else
                                        occ.put(cur, 1);
                        }

                        int numBlocks = endHeight - startHeight;
                        int numAddr = occ.values().size();

                        System.out.println("startBlock  " + startHeight
                                        + " generated by # addresses : " + numAddr
                                        + " (numBlocks: " + numBlocks + ")");

                        conn.close();

                } catch (SQLException e) {
                        e.printStackTrace();
                } catch (ClassNotFoundException e) {

                        e.printStackTrace();
                } finally {
                        if (conn != null)
                                try {
                                        conn.close();
                                } catch (SQLException e) {
                                        e.printStackTrace();
                                }
                }

        }

        public static void main(String[] args) {
                int maxh = 200000;
                int step = 10000;
                for (int bh = 0; bh < maxh; bh += step) {
                        runQuery(bh, bh + step);
                }

        }
}

He will likely come up with some excuse again, just like he came up with an excuse not to set up a NXT node to check the real number of nodes in the network.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1010
July 19, 2014, 09:28:58 AM
That is not exclusive to Nxt.
In general it's fár easier to get through life repeating what fits with your beliefs.
We all do it, and it's a human trait. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
July 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
One thing that I've noticed over the last month and a bit since I posted this thread is the sheer ignorance of people on this message board when it comes to the topic of NXT. Everyone seems to have these preconceived notions of what NXT is and no one seems to have actually taken the time to research or ask about the truth.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
July 19, 2014, 09:13:50 AM
Where does it say that 75% of the NXT is held by one or two people?

That sounds like he just means that 75% of the NXT is locked away in cold storage or something not on the network. Which isn't too surprising really. Doesn't sound like he's saying it's controlled by one or two people.

Yeah, atoni likes to twist words to suit his agenda.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1010
July 19, 2014, 09:10:57 AM
I will help you, here is quote from JL777Hodl.

"This means the active liquid NXT is probably around 250 million total, which is still plenty especially with the normal trading volumes of 1 million NXT per day."

And? The active liquid Bitcoin is probably 1 million or less, the rest is hodl'ed and never leaves wallets, what does it have to do with anything?

It has a lot to do with anything. First and more important stakes dont matter in POW currencies while in POS they are the only ones that matter. So if a couple of people control 75% of network its EXTREMELY important.

You do know that

a) James is nót a founding member of Nxt as you state. He came to Nxt after the IPO in december.
b) Salsa is not the end all of all information on Nxt
c) The numbers you quote there are 'guesstimates'. Here's the link to the article, by the way: http://nxtcoin.blogspot.nl/2014/06/how-nxt-changed-our-lives-james.html

I have no problem with you disliking Nxt or its distribution (why should I), but methodologically it's suspect when you promote the sources of your links to greater status than they have to boost their believability.
That's just not done.

Also, yes, stake ís important, but so is distribution.
Have a look at the charts:

http://charts.nxtcrypto.org/cDistribution.aspx
http://charts.nxtcrypto.org/cDistributionTopAccount.aspx

The Top 100 hold 730 million of all Nxt. You can hardly call a hundred people a "couple of people".
None of these has the power to attack the network. They just don't hold that much stake. Neither is it in their best interest to do so.

Of course, there is the preference that you may have for a network with a "better" distribution, but frankly, over the past months, those kinds of discussions have yielded little real solutions, and tend to default to "fairness" instead of "viability" and "security", which is a pity.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
July 19, 2014, 09:10:31 AM
Where does it say that 75% of the NXT is held by one or two people?

That sounds like he just means that 75% of the NXT is locked away in cold storage or something not on the network. Which isn't too surprising really. Doesn't sound like he's saying it's controlled by one or two people.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 08:09:36 AM
I will help you, here is quote from JL777Hodl.

"This means the active liquid NXT is probably around 250 million total, which is still plenty especially with the normal trading volumes of 1 million NXT per day."

And? The active liquid Bitcoin is probably 1 million or less, the rest is hodl'ed and never leaves wallets, what does it have to do with anything?

It has a lot to do with anything. First and more important stakes dont matter in POW currencies while in POS they are the only ones that matter. So if a couple of people control 75% of network its EXTREMELY important.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 08:08:20 AM
Please post links to blog, etc., you can write anything here as you always do, I'll believe when I see the links. Chances are you're misinterpreting someone's subjective opinion.

How is that subjective opinion? Its a quote
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
July 19, 2014, 07:23:24 AM
I will help you, here is quote from JL777Hodl.

"This means the active liquid NXT is probably around 250 million total, which is still plenty especially with the normal trading volumes of 1 million NXT per day."

And? The active liquid Bitcoin is probably 1 million or less, the rest is hodl'ed and never leaves wallets, what does it have to do with anything?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
July 19, 2014, 07:22:01 AM
Please post links to blog, etc., you can write anything here as you always do, I'll believe when I see the links. Chances are you're misinterpreting someone's subjective opinion.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 07:19:50 AM
I will help you, here is quote from JL777Hodl.

"This means the active liquid NXT is probably around 250 million total, which is still plenty especially with the normal trading volumes of 1 million NXT per day."
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 07:12:12 AM
@atoni,

I have no idea which blog post you're referring to. Whatever it is, there is objective information that you get from analyzing the blockchain (300+ successful block generating accounts) and there are subjective opinions in the blogs. You need to check the date of the post also, if it was some time ago, things have changed a lot.

Likewise, there are subjective opinions on which assets to invest into, why do you ask me to comment on one of them? It's not like all the NXT community invests in one and the same assets, community is decentralized just like NXT itself, unlike Ripple Wink

Read Szalasz blog with interview with JL777Hodl where he explains how they released only 25% of currency to people and still control 75%.

It is not some random asset that I used, for that type of scam there is over 160 assets on nxt asset exchange that are blatant scam which I could use as example. I used post and asset from NXT Founder and its Developer so you can pretty much say one of Nxt Main Figures that pays for fake volume to unload his crap on noobs.

And there you go again with Ripple being centralized, you already saw that picture which shows you the difference between centralized - decentralized - distributed so I dont know why you are playing blind englishman here.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 07:07:37 AM

NXT was the first POS.


Peercoin aka PPCoin was the first PoS coin actually. NXT is the first "PoS 2.0" coin.

Entire crypto 2.0 is debatable.

Ripple was first crypto 2.0 and it set the standards (2 years ago). It offers instant transactions, ability to send any currency anywhere (you can send even USD, EUR, BTC, or airline points) instantly, asset exchange (where you have the ability to make your own order books in any currency you want), gateways (where anyone can become a gateway) etc etc.

NXT so far managed only to copy asset exchange from ripple (but in next you cannot choose in which currency to list assets etc, nor can you make your own order books, its central exchange) and will try to copy gateways (but run by devs, not by anyone) and will try to copy instant transactions (but only in nxt, you cannot transfer other currencies).

So NXT and other clones of ripple can be called crypto 1.1 only for now since they managed to copy only small part of Ripple so far.

Ripple is centralised though so most people don't even consider it in the same category. Not that it isn't an interesting idea though.



Ripple is not centralised, its distributed. There was good picture by some of nxt members that shows how it goes from centralized  - decentralized - distributed so one can argue that distributed is more advanced. And it has nothing to do with centralized, its actually the opposite.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 260
July 19, 2014, 06:55:54 AM
@atoni,

I have no idea which blog post you're referring to. Whatever it is, there is objective information that you get from analyzing the blockchain (300+ successful block generating accounts) and there are subjective opinions in the blogs. You need to check the date of the post also, if it was some time ago, things have changed a lot.

Likewise, there are subjective opinions on which assets to invest into, why do you ask me to comment on one of them? It's not like all the NXT community invests in one and the same assets, community is decentralized just like NXT itself, unlike Ripple Wink
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
July 19, 2014, 06:37:40 AM

NXT was the first POS.


Peercoin aka PPCoin was the first PoS coin actually. NXT is the first "PoS 2.0" coin.

Entire crypto 2.0 is debatable.

Ripple was first crypto 2.0 and it set the standards (2 years ago). It offers instant transactions, ability to send any currency anywhere (you can send even USD, EUR, BTC, or airline points) instantly, asset exchange (where you have the ability to make your own order books in any currency you want), gateways (where anyone can become a gateway) etc etc.

NXT so far managed only to copy asset exchange from ripple (but in next you cannot choose in which currency to list assets etc, nor can you make your own order books, its central exchange) and will try to copy gateways (but run by devs, not by anyone) and will try to copy instant transactions (but only in nxt, you cannot transfer other currencies).

So NXT and other clones of ripple can be called crypto 1.1 only for now since they managed to copy only small part of Ripple so far.

Ripple is centralised though so most people don't even consider it in the same category. Not that it isn't an interesting idea though.

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 06:28:11 AM

NXT was the first POS.


Peercoin aka PPCoin was the first PoS coin actually. NXT is the first "PoS 2.0" coin.

Entire crypto 2.0 is debatable.

Ripple was first crypto 2.0 and it set the standards (2 years ago). It offers instant transactions, ability to send any currency anywhere (you can send even USD, EUR, BTC, or airline points) instantly, asset exchange (where you have the ability to make your own order books in any currency you want), gateways (where anyone can become a gateway) etc etc.

NXT so far managed only to copy asset exchange from ripple (but in next you cannot choose in which currency to list assets etc, nor can you make your own order books, its central exchange) and will try to copy gateways (but run by devs, not by anyone) and will try to copy instant transactions (but only in nxt, you cannot transfer other currencies).

So NXT and other clones of ripple can be called crypto 1.1 only for now since they managed to copy only small part of Ripple so far.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
July 19, 2014, 06:07:34 AM
Let's agree to make it one person not to beat around the bush any longer and we can end this discussion Grin

Sure, who likes to read Facts U Dislike anyway Smiley

Nah, you just post disinformation, yesterday you said there are only 100 nodes in NXT network, now you say it all belongs to 1 or 3 people. Tomorrow you'll pull another rabbit out of your hat. I understand you want to buy cheap NXTs, everybody does, but it's as cheap as it will go now, so don't waste your time, another couple of weeks and the price will be higher because a lot of new things are coming to NXT.

Which disinformation? I was using number from one of Deadelus forum posts where he was begging for people to leave wallets open to have secured network.

And your number of 300 wallets receiving a reward in an entire week is interesting too (thats 300 wallets in entire week lol) Smiley

I didnt say that entire network belongs to a couple of people but 75% of it and for that I used Jl777Hodl interview on Szalasz blog (one is founding member of NXT other is nxt champion so I couldnt have used better sources).

Care to comment on how JL777Hodl pays NXT community to fake volume on Poloniex while at same time he is unloading it to poloniex noobs (and sadly his own community members) at 100% profit in arbitrage?

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/price-speculation/msg66820/#msg66820

Not to mention that at NXT original thread he is congratulating to himself for having such high volume (which is not laughable because its only 5 btc, but because the fact that its paid fake volume).

legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
July 19, 2014, 06:00:09 AM

NXT was the first POS.


Peercoin aka PPCoin was the first PoS coin actually. NXT is the first "PoS 2.0" coin.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
July 18, 2014, 03:37:40 PM
I have not that knowledge like some other have here in this thread but I guess I can explain you my opinion about this discussion.
NXT was the first POS.
Monero is something you can mine.
NEM will be the first Proof of Interest. I can see the quick proceedings in NEM. NEM brought already the alpha version. There is a great community standing behind this coin. Maybe bigger than in all other coin imo. But it is just what I guess.

Sadly I missed almost everything about Bytecoin. When came this coin up?

Dont forget I'm not that kind of pro like some others here and I'm not so often in btt but I'm very excited about some new developments.
I will keep an eye on NEM and NXT as the most popular second gen coins.

legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
July 18, 2014, 10:05:35 AM
Let's agree to make it one person not to beat around the bush any longer and we can end this discussion Grin

Sure, who likes to read Facts U Dislike anyway Smiley

Nah, you just post disinformation, yesterday you said there are only 100 nodes in NXT network, now you say it all belongs to 1 or 3 people. Tomorrow you'll pull another rabbit out of your hat. I understand you want to buy cheap NXTs, everybody does, but it's as cheap as it will go now, so don't waste your time, another couple of weeks and the price will be higher because a lot of new things are coming to NXT.
I hope so, because i have to tell you I'm starting to get a little nervous at the moment.



Why is that?

I don't even really want to bump this thread since I created it over a month ago and since then I've become much more familiar with both technologies. But your post has made me curious.
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