Topic: NXT/NEM or Monero/Bytecoin? - page 3. (Read 5164 times)

okay bud.

i am not going to argue why that was a bad distribution. that's very obvious. but that also means that the top holder have tons of coin to grease/buy developments and push the coin forward. as we have been seeing. so i am not here to kick down any coins. I care less.

i can't read the future. all people been telling you is that is much riskier investment. you got a coin with bad history and serious accusation, but at the same time it is moving along and trying to find its spot. you seem to have chosen your path. good luck in your investment.

IMO this post explains it all excellently. Go read Szalasz blog (he is long standing nxt veteran and nxt champion) where founders explain how they released only 25% of coins and still control 75% (even if its not only bcnext but if its really 2-3 his friends involved, we are looking at 3-4 closely connected people).

So think about its security. for them to control over 50% of network they dont have to buy anything, they already control it. So its not problem of only initial distribution but of current one as well and its closely connected to how secure it is. Not to mention that almost all fees paid in nxt go directly to them too.

And nxt shouldnt be called first crypto 2.0, it copied everything from ripple that was made 2 years before it (and its still not even close to what ripple can do, so if ripple set standards for crypto 2.0 other shitclones dont even come close yet).

Also, look at what happened to ripple when 1 founder decided to sell his stash of only 9% of currency. In nxt case there is sword of demaclos in form of 75% of currency or 8X bigger issue.

We will see if NEM POI manages to solve risk associated with pos currencies especially ones like in case of nxt where 2-3 friends control almost entire network and can do literally anything they want with it.

Its an equivalent of qhash owning 75% of bitcoin mining, but even there its difference because qhash is consisted of many miners that they can easily exclude from network while in nxt case you cant exclude 2-3 friends.
 

... just to continue, and because he can't mine anything, distribution of any coin (oh, Bitcoin is now $600 but it was only pennies two years ago and someone got a lot of them!) will look unfair to him. Or not, if he understands (and he does), that fairness is a silly concept. There is nothing fair in life, it would be very strange if it was different in crypto currencies.

I don't understand the point in your hypothetical ramble.

NEM is already being traded on the asset exchange and it hasn't been dumped to death, neither has NXT.  There's a difference between handing out coins to investors / pseudo-investors and then giving something out to everybody (Aurora).

its simple statistics. why do they use the word "fair distribution" "decentralized" ?

simply put.

if 5000 people took part and they are all unique shares (hence fair distributed). let say 10,000 coin for each.

even if no one else is interested into buying once it hits and exchange there is a 50-50 chance that it will be half sell and half hold between current share holders.  
assuming half selling then its 25 000 000 coins sold.
half holding mean that there is 2500 shareholders who will probably buy all this 25,000,000 coins back
hence leaving 50,000,000 coin between 2500 people. or considering a mass panic sells then 50 mill coin between 1200 people who held their coins and bought more.

doing it the other way with only 70 people. at 50 mill coins thats ~714000 coins per person.
very low number to think it will be 50-50 sell or hold. it wont mater. (hence bad distributed)
even if 10 people sell , that is massive sell order. leaving 60 people hoarding and 10 out
as a buyer will you jump and buy this coin once its out in the exchange?
its a bad distribution model.

It was not equal distribution between 73.  There was a 1.5 BTC limit and only 20 people invested the limit, and without any taint analysis we don't know how many of those said 20 were socks.   We also don't know if those 20 people had any crony or nepotism connection with each other.  The other 53 or so people got the scraps.  For people who claim freeloading is an issue in NEM - there's NxT whales with 40+ million coins who haven't logged in months and don't contribute to coding, discussion or even funding.


A distribution of 3000 isn't intended to be a planetary distribution.  We know Aurora tried to give coins to every Icelander and its' value plummeted when the first batch were selling their coins for beer and salted herring.  Ironically, it echoed the original "air drop" that was the privatization voucher of the FSU in the early 1990s (which people promptly sold to door-to-door salesmen and used the proceeds to buy liquor.  

"So most people immediately sold their voucher on the street for about seven dollars. You could get two bottles of cheap vodka for the price of one voucher." are the results you can see on Google.  Some salesmen even traded chocolate snicker bars for vouchers.  A lot of the salesmen who acquired those vouchers later became very rich).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voucher_privatization


The distribution was to weaken the influence of any whales, sockpuppets or incidents of cronyism.  To match the power of an early NxT investor one would have to create 160 sockpuppets in NEM back in January (160 times of bypassing taint analysis which was only revealed later, 160 times of dealing with the anti-spam restrictions on this forum, 160 times of creating socks for a worthless coin, et cetera) and creating 160 socks for a worthless coin was beyond any normal person's patience.

i'm not an expert but i seen a lot info in last days that nem is pretty scam. there were a lot of threads few days ago about this, just look for them few days back in this board

Having a chit chat is ok.
I only have a laptop, like many people, can't mine nothing with it, have to buy cryptos, PoW or PoS.
Which means I, like many people, use different criteria for my preference of cryptos than miners.

I just had a customer ask me about cryptos, he can't mine anything either, naturally he would like to invest into Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is everywhere, but I also introduced him to PoS, NXT. He will have to buy with cash, Bitcoin or not, what does it matter to him, if it's PoW or PoS, he will look at other criteria. Right now he'll probably be into Bitcoin mostly, because it's been around longer, but you get the idea, since he can't mine PoW, he'll eventually be interested in PoS coins too, because any coin requires that he pays cash to get it and he would like to diversify risks. There are many people like him, who just come to the crypto market and can't mine anything.

That's been my primary qualm with NEM from the start -- 3000 vs. 73 is meaningless.

NEM's PoI can be significant. 3000 initial stakeholders is not.

calm your titties. i am not here to tell you which coin is better.

i gave you more then three points how a POW coins bring in more new people then a POS coin.

just wanted to share my thought why POW is better then POS. you guy started praising POS.

Why is 3000 or 5000 or even 10000 stakeholder of NEM better than 70 in NXT. Nothing is fair when we talking about money. Money need to be transparent not fair. Is Bitcoin unfair because of his creator? Satoshi fortune is around 1M Bitcoins, maybe more.

hey man. just having a chit chat with you on the topic. we can go deeper or leave it as it is.

truth the mater is that POW is still a better distribution method. Asics and rent-a-rig farms are making it more centralized sure. but it still the best method. Sorry POS

to me the number one reason is the trustless way a noob can start owning bits buy mining.

What next and any other PURE POS coins should do is create a sidechain/color coin in POW. So then any one, any where can start mining this POW token and be able to trade it for the POS    

LOL what did LTC in last year ?

What did NXT,BC... much more while miners are focus on mine price POS communities are building kingdoms and develop to expand.
That is mainly different.

POS coin are building developing much faster than any POW one ( except BTC )...
POS coin have MORE motivation to do it than miners...

hashrate.org was set up to help miners with hardware get NXT coins automatically without having to worry about selling coins by themselves, watching exchange rates, etc. if they choose to go to another pool, that's fine, NXT will survive just fine. basically, hashrate.org is the same as any multipool with the same features, except it pays in NXTs, not in Bitcoins. What's fundamentally wrong with that? it's a free market

its fundamental wrong. because they get to know about pow coins. and you will eventually loose miners because they will start to see that they can start mining some other coin , outside this pool for better profit. and hit jack pot and move over to that coin

ie:
nxt miner. mining multipool. eventually payout is bad. searches around and sees that is most profitable to mine new coin at lunch. so decided to mine dark coin. mines dark coin. get lucky and mines a nice chunk. dark coin blows up. doesn't sell the dark coin to get nxt but hold to it dear. now more interested in dark coin.   

see. the above path , while possibly not %100 accurate it still shows that there is a small percentage that such event can happen and slowly loose your miners/investors

the other crucial think i forgot about the miners is that a miner always have to be alert. alwyas has to check on his mining rig and always had to keep updating with the coins community. this couases the miners of one coin to form a bortherhood like bond. at the same times the interaction with the community keeps the coin healthy. while with POS the communities are slower. the on the topic of conversation is the trading volume. its a snooze fest

Yea but that laptop which mined 10 000 BTC in week before today can mine 0,00001day BTC...


While in POS to end eternity you mine eg 1% like with BC,PPC...you get proportional reward for whole life..
in BTC your reward is dropping.

In POW and POS early mover have advantage.

POS minig is fair for whole eternity always 1% early or later...
POW minig reward is dropping over time...

There is no perfect system.

your missing the point. POW coin as long as it miniable it keeps having one more group of people more then pos coins. the miners.


as far as earlyminers/insta mining that equivalent to = early investor or for Nxt case bad IPO distribution.

But how many people were minig Doge for LTC because of profitability ?
How many was minig LTC for getting BTC ?
many...
Both economies works similar here you took most profitable way...
you mine not for spending coin but mostly for selling bag for $$ next coming people.

Nothing wrong with that.
NXT was bootstrapped with Bitcoins, it's generation 2.0, can't have generation 2.0 without generation 1.0, can you?
It doesn't mean than NXT needs PoW to exist, it just means miners can use their hardware to get NXTs same way they get PoW coins.

ironically they depend for POW coins to do this.