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Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 683. (Read 170460 times)

legendary
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Even in their football and Olympic teams, they include a lot of expats. But the difference is that the FIFA and IOC rules force them to provide citizenship to these players first, before including them in the team. A perfect example is that of Qatar team in the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Around 40% of the players were expats (with Qatari citizenship, like Ró-Ró from Cabo Verde, Mohammed Muntari from Ghana and Almoez Ali from Sudan) and some 60% were natives. ICC doesn't have any such restrictions, and therefore they can include whomever they want.

Qatar atleast has 60% native players and remaining 40% are expats but still have the nationality. That's not the case with cricket, if you see teams of UAE then there is no local player as all are either from Pakistan or India. The downside of this approach is that nations that are passionate about cricket are suffering alot like Nepal. ICC has no objection on such team of expats which mean they will continue to have team like this.
We should understand one thing, it isn't mandatory for every sports to have similar rule. ICC as the governing body for cricket have framed its own rules and regulations, same as what FIFA have done for football. When you go in depth it is possible to see certain rules in FIFA favourable for specific part of the world. It is wrong to compare the rules framed by ICC with FIFA.

ICC haven't strict the rule to have native players or to prove the identity as countries involvement into cricket is low. Over the years when more teams gets in, ICC may change the rule or it is upto the country to restrict only the natives to play on the national team.
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Even in their football and Olympic teams, they include a lot of expats. But the difference is that the FIFA and IOC rules force them to provide citizenship to these players first, before including them in the team. A perfect example is that of Qatar team in the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Around 40% of the players were expats (with Qatari citizenship, like Ró-Ró from Cabo Verde, Mohammed Muntari from Ghana and Almoez Ali from Sudan) and some 60% were natives. ICC doesn't have any such restrictions, and therefore they can include whomever they want.

Qatar atleast has 60% native players and remaining 40% are expats but still have the nationality. That's not the case with cricket, if you see teams of UAE then there is no local player as all are either from Pakistan or India. The downside of this approach is that nations that are passionate about cricket are suffering alot like Nepal. ICC has no objection on such team of expats which mean they will continue to have team like this.
sr. member
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ICC has just started expanding remember. Both FIFA & IOC have been in existence before ICC. When you are comparing always compare with due diligence. This is how you penetrate and make money and then go to poor countries. This is how you increase reach and develop talent. Why you are always blaming ICC. Most poor countries are so corrupt that ICC might think twice about them.

Just look at the condition of PCB. From top to bottom everyone in PCB is corrupt. A whole nation falling appart and they still think they are Chaudries of Cricket. Srilanka, Bangladesh are same in that matter, GDP is down but corruption is high. I won't fully agree with ICC but I won't deny that they are doing the right thing.  

That is not correct. The International Cricket Council (ICC) is one of the oldest sports bodies, being formed in 1909 (back then it was known as the Imperial Cricket Conference). Many of the test and associate members have been part of the ICC for many decades. Teams like Fiji, Bermuda, Denmark and Netherlands have been ICC members for more than half a century, although they recently expanded to countries such as Afghanistan, Iran and Indonesia. FIFA was in a similar situation half a century back. But they managed to expand their sport to many countries around the world. The ICC has been largely unsuccessful in expanding cricket.

Cannot argue with you as you do not read what I wrote. Was ICC famous or rich in those days? Is it now? If you compare those two boards. Please do not reply before understanding what I wrote.

Now rephrasing, what I said earlier in which was on  ICC is trying to grow and get new countries. They have a few countries that are active on all three formats. They need more to follow them. They found an easy way. They are using it. Thanks.
legendary
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ICC has just started expanding remember. Both FIFA & IOC have been in existence before ICC. When you are comparing always compare with due diligence. This is how you penetrate and make money and then go to poor countries. This is how you increase reach and develop talent. Why you are always blaming ICC. Most poor countries are so corrupt that ICC might think twice about them.

Just look at the condition of PCB. From top to bottom everyone in PCB is corrupt. A whole nation falling appart and they still think they are Chaudries of Cricket. Srilanka, Bangladesh are same in that matter, GDP is down but corruption is high. I won't fully agree with ICC but I won't deny that they are doing the right thing. 

That is not correct. The International Cricket Council (ICC) is one of the oldest sports bodies, being formed in 1909 (back then it was known as the Imperial Cricket Conference). Many of the test and associate members have been part of the ICC for many decades. Teams like Fiji, Bermuda, Denmark and Netherlands have been ICC members for more than half a century, although they recently expanded to countries such as Afghanistan, Iran and Indonesia. FIFA was in a similar situation half a century back. But they managed to expand their sport to many countries around the world. The ICC has been largely unsuccessful in expanding cricket.
sr. member
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Even in their football and Olympic teams, they include a lot of expats. But the difference is that the FIFA and IOC rules force them to provide citizenship to these players first, before including them in the team. A perfect example is that of Qatar team in the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Around 40% of the players were expats (with Qatari citizenship, like Ró-Ró from Cabo Verde, Mohammed Muntari from Ghana and Almoez Ali from Sudan) and some 60% were natives. ICC doesn't have any such restrictions, and therefore they can include whomever they want.

ICC has just started expanding remember. Both FIFA & IOC have been in existence before ICC. When you are comparing always compare with due diligence. This is how you penetrate and make money and then go to poor countries. This is how you increase reach and develop talent. Why you are always blaming ICC. Most poor countries are so corrupt that ICC might think twice about them.

Just look at the condition of PCB. From top to bottom everyone in PCB is corrupt. A whole nation falling appart and they still think they are Chaudries of Cricket. Srilanka, Bangladesh are same in that matter, GDP is down but corruption is high. I won't fully agree with ICC but I won't deny that they are doing the right thing. 
legendary
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UAE and Oman are ruled by Arabs but are run by immigrants from South Asia. The same applies to cricket. In simple when you can buy players, why invest in local players? Obviously buying players is cheaper than developing talent through investment. I guess this step by ICC is being driven due to the amount of South Asian Expats in those countries.

Even in their football and Olympic teams, they include a lot of expats. But the difference is that the FIFA and IOC rules force them to provide citizenship to these players first, before including them in the team. A perfect example is that of Qatar team in the 2022 FIFA World Cup. Around 40% of the players were expats (with Qatari citizenship, like Ró-Ró from Cabo Verde, Mohammed Muntari from Ghana and Almoez Ali from Sudan) and some 60% were natives. ICC doesn't have any such restrictions, and therefore they can include whomever they want.
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This offer may be rejected by Pakistan as Pakistan is in constant rivalry with India. Earlier it was aimed to clash with India often in ODIs so it seems Pakistan will not make a mistake this second time around. Even if Pakistan accepts this proposal, then Pakistan will enter the BCCI with security. But I think it is better to accept this proposal of Pakistan.
ICC will consult both boards to get a mean way to impress these two boards. And will try to its best to make them satisfy on some points which will be agreed by these two boards. And soon the ICC will announce the solution. ICC has no more option means ICC can't expell any one team from these two teams. So we will wait for the better decision from ICC.
sr. member
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USA still has few native players or players of South Asian origin that are born in USA. That's why USA team is justified in some context, but look at teams of UAE and Oman there is no native player nor anyone is resident of these countries. In Gulf there is no interest in cricket and I don't know the reason why these countries have formed a team that is entirely made up of expats.

UAE and Oman are ruled by Arabs but are run by immigrants from South Asia. The same applies to cricket. In simple when you can buy players, why invest in local players? Obviously buying players is cheaper than developing talent through investment. I guess this step by ICC is being driven due to the amount of South Asian Expats in those countries.
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I am not even asking them to support native dominated teams. All they had to do was to take a neutral stance. But these shameless people want United Arab Emirates and United States of America in ICC tournaments at any cost. And this is not just limited to the 2023 ODI World Cup. What is the point in providing direct qualification to the United States for the 2024 T20 World Cup? They are hosting a couple of matches and therefore the ICC decided to provide them with direct qualification, at the cost of many promising associate teams.

USA still has few native players or players of South Asian origin that are born in USA. That's why USA team is justified in some context, but look at teams of UAE and Oman there is no native player nor anyone is resident of these countries. In Gulf there is no interest in cricket and I don't know the reason why these countries have formed a team that is entirely made up of expats.
legendary
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You are absolutely right, there is apathy on the part of the ICC. Instead of supporting a team made by natives, they support a team made up of foreign players, which is a major obstacle for the progress of cricket. If cricket is seen only as a tool for money then its quality cannot be improved. If the ICC had supported Namibia they would have been more motivated. But they didn't do that ‍and this is why the normal spreading of cricket is not seen. ICC should immediately come back from such attitude.

I am not even asking them to support native dominated teams. All they had to do was to take a neutral stance. But these shameless people want United Arab Emirates and United States of America in ICC tournaments at any cost. And this is not just limited to the 2023 ODI World Cup. What is the point in providing direct qualification to the United States for the 2024 T20 World Cup? They are hosting a couple of matches and therefore the ICC decided to provide them with direct qualification, at the cost of many promising associate teams.
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Actually it's India who has decided not to play in Pakistan and now PCB is boycotting ODI world cup in India (its not final though). Najam Sethi said yesterday we have to face 3 million USD loss if we gave up Asia cup and our relations with ICC will go down if we boycott ODI worldcup. I don't its issue to two boards rather it's only BCCI decision that has created this deadlock. Surprisingly BCCI and Indian government has no objection in India Pakistan match to be played in India.

In the end, what matters is whether Pakistan will take part in the upcoming ODI or not. I think they will as they do not have any choice, they are already in talks with ICC as they want to play all their games in two cities (Kolkatta and Chennai). ICC would need to consult with BCCI before giving a confirmation to PCB. In the end the ball again lies on the court of BCCI and I do not think they will decline this request.   

This offer may be rejected by Pakistan as Pakistan is in constant rivalry with India. Earlier it was aimed to clash with India often in ODIs so it seems Pakistan will not make a mistake this second time around. Even if Pakistan accepts this proposal, then Pakistan will enter the BCCI with security. But I think it is better to accept this proposal of Pakistan.
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I also read about this all which is happening under the supervision of ICC which is helping few favourite countries for having better results and no one caring about this all because they now weak countries are not able to have any strong help, but things like these surely bringing bad impact about ICC and spirit of the game which will have negativity in Namibian and other associate countries as well but again who care about this all ICC mean business, and they are going through for big markets instead of quality and performance which is also important for better future of this game in world.

Specially this all is doing neutral umpires which are under control of ICC, and we can't ask them how dare you are giving decisions like these which are bringing big changes in teams rankings in qualifications.

ICC are a bunch of shameless crooks. They know that Namibia is one of the strongest associate nations and if there is a direct duel between them and either the USA/UAE, then the former will prevail. But they wanted to push UAE/USA to the qualifier at any cost, so that additional funding can be allotted to them. In the end both Namibia and Jersey lost out (both in terms of funding and in terms of a spot in the world cup qualifiers). And sadly, these two teams are comprised of 100% natives. And till now, the umpire who made those horrible mistakes hasn't been punished. It seems like he was ordered by the ICC to do that.
You are absolutely right, there is apathy on the part of the ICC. Instead of supporting a team made by natives, they support a team made up of foreign players, which is a major obstacle for the progress of cricket. If cricket is seen only as a tool for money then its quality cannot be improved. If the ICC had supported Namibia they would have been more motivated. But they didn't do that ‍and this is why the normal spreading of cricket is not seen. ICC should immediately come back from such attitude.
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Actually it's India who has decided not to play in Pakistan and now PCB is boycotting ODI world cup in India (its not final though). Najam Sethi said yesterday we have to face 3 million USD loss if we gave up Asia cup and our relations with ICC will go down if we boycott ODI worldcup. I don't its issue to two boards rather it's only BCCI decision that has created this deadlock. Surprisingly BCCI and Indian government has no objection in India Pakistan match to be played in India.

In the end, what matters is whether Pakistan will take part in the upcoming ODI or not. I think they will as they do not have any choice, they are already in talks with ICC as they want to play all their games in two cities (Kolkatta and Chennai). ICC would need to consult with BCCI before giving a confirmation to PCB. In the end the ball again lies on the court of BCCI and I do not think they will decline this request.   
legendary
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I also read about this all which is happening under the supervision of ICC which is helping few favourite countries for having better results and no one caring about this all because they now weak countries are not able to have any strong help, but things like these surely bringing bad impact about ICC and spirit of the game which will have negativity in Namibian and other associate countries as well but again who care about this all ICC mean business, and they are going through for big markets instead of quality and performance which is also important for better future of this game in world.

Specially this all is doing neutral umpires which are under control of ICC, and we can't ask them how dare you are giving decisions like these which are bringing big changes in teams rankings in qualifications.

ICC are a bunch of shameless crooks. They know that Namibia is one of the strongest associate nations and if there is a direct duel between them and either the USA/UAE, then the former will prevail. But they wanted to push UAE/USA to the qualifier at any cost, so that additional funding can be allotted to them. In the end both Namibia and Jersey lost out (both in terms of funding and in terms of a spot in the world cup qualifiers). And sadly, these two teams are comprised of 100% natives. And till now, the umpire who made those horrible mistakes hasn't been punished. It seems like he was ordered by the ICC to do that.
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Restricting players to play in T20 leagues so that they can perform for the national team, actually forcing them to perform for the national team is not going to be the best solution in this case. If a player does not take pride in representing his own country, it is hard to make him do that.
It is true that West Indies players really want money. But at the same time, it is also true that the West Indies board is also very cheap and tries to keep a huge amount for themselves. I think all of this is happening because of the lack of transparency between the players and the cricket board.
WICB is right now in the worst situation with many issues are rising which are never been good for them because they are not one country having seven or eight countries are playing under one flag and its happening for the last one century which is never been easy they rule the world for long time but now recently they have many on and off the field issues which are creating problems, so many players are not happy to play for this team which is surely big dilemma for them and with this management is also failed to settle problems even they have still enough quality and good players but things going from bad to worse for them if they fail to fix these problems then surely we can have more troubling time in near future.

West Indies cricket is on the brink of getting destroyed. They are not interested in playing for the country at all. And of course, no one is actually going to be able to make them play for the country if the players are not interested. The problems that they are facing right now are going to take a lot to be fixed.


snip~
A player is invited in T20 league because of his performance and appearance in national team. Not many domestic players are invited to play in T20 leagues. As I said CA stopped his players from IPL due to Pakistan tour last year.
We see West Indies players mostly busy in T20 leagues and there national team is suffering alot because of absence of major players. Very soon boards may start taking undertaking from new players before inclusion in national team that they will remain available for national duty.

The players are, of course, going to play in the T20 leagues, because the money is a lot compared to the national team. And as I said, they don’t have any interest in playing as a national team player. And that was bound to happen. When the CRICKET board does not care about a player, the player is also not going to care about the national team as well.
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In my point of view ICC will never decide to expell Pakistan from ODI world cup. Because if we see that Pakistan and India matches give a handsome amount of revenue to ICC. And therefore ICC will not take this action. If ICC will make a good decision so the both teams India and Pakistan will play ICC. Otherwise these two boards are refusing and against each other. So the good decision will matter more.


Actually it's India who has decided not to play in Pakistan and now PCB is boycotting ODI world cup in India (its not final though). Najam Sethi said yesterday we have to face 3 million USD loss if we gave up Asia cup and our relations with ICC will go down if we boycott ODI worldcup. I don't its issue to two boards rather it's only BCCI decision that has created this deadlock. Surprisingly BCCI and Indian government has no objection in India Pakistan match to be played in India.

When it comes to the India-Pakistan cricket rivalry, there are always different opinions and perspectives. BCCI decides not to travel to Pakistan for Asia Cup, but they will not suffer any major loss. However, if the situation is reversed, PCB have to face financial loss. PCB also addressing concerns about player safety and security in India but they have no other option.

There have been rumors, and proposed of a neutral venue for Pakistan vs India match. This could be a potential solution. Though nothing has been finalized yet.
Without the participation of two teams, World Cup cricket will not gain much popularity. The ICC must try to find a solution. But if the venue is given in a different place then there should not be any problem. If Pakistan does not agree to that, then it is understood that one of the two teams will be excluded from this World Cup. But if Pakistan goes against ICC then they will have a big negative impact on cricket. In their present condition Its effect will increase drastically.
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In my point of view ICC will never decide to expell Pakistan from ODI world cup. Because if we see that Pakistan and India matches give a handsome amount of revenue to ICC. And therefore ICC will not take this action. If ICC will make a good decision so the both teams India and Pakistan will play ICC. Otherwise these two boards are refusing and against each other. So the good decision will matter more.


Actually it's India who has decided not to play in Pakistan and now PCB is boycotting ODI world cup in India (its not final though). Najam Sethi said yesterday we have to face 3 million USD loss if we gave up Asia cup and our relations with ICC will go down if we boycott ODI worldcup. I don't its issue to two boards rather it's only BCCI decision that has created this deadlock. Surprisingly BCCI and Indian government has no objection in India Pakistan match to be played in India.

When it comes to the India-Pakistan cricket rivalry, there are always different opinions and perspectives. BCCI decides not to travel to Pakistan for Asia Cup, but they will not suffer any major loss. However, if the situation is reversed, PCB have to face financial loss. PCB also addressing concerns about player safety and security in India but they have no other option.

There have been rumors, and proposed of a neutral venue for Pakistan vs India match. This could be a potential solution. Though nothing has been finalized yet.
Najam Sethi is adamant that he'll face all financial loss but he is not ready to give up his teams and country's respect and integrity  . So they'll not participate in world cup and also boycotting Asia Cup  due to icc behaviour towards Pakistan and this issue.  
Icc is taking too long to make a decision regarding Asia cup and world cup and because of that many misunderstandings are arising with each passing day.
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The Namibian captain has spoken against poor umpiring during the World Cup qualifier play-off matches. During the tournament, umpires made some horrible decisions, which favored the two teams considered as favorites by the ICC - United Arab Emirates and United States.

https://www.cricketeurope.com/DATABASE/ARTICLES2023/articles/000003/000362.shtml

During the match between Jersey and United States, a well set Jersey batsmen (Asa Tribe) was given out despite the ball nowhere near the stumps. This resulted in Namibia failing to qualify for the next stage, and Jersey losing the ODI status. Two native teams lost out as a result of horrible umpiring, and two teams made up of foreign players benefited from it. 
I also read about this all which is happening under the supervision of ICC which is helping few favourite countries for having better results and no one caring about this all because they now weak countries are not able to have any strong help, but things like these surely bringing bad impact about ICC and spirit of the game which will have negativity in Namibian and other associate countries as well but again who care about this all ICC mean business, and they are going through for big markets instead of quality and performance which is also important for better future of this game in world.

Specially this all is doing neutral umpires which are under control of ICC, and we can't ask them how dare you are giving decisions like these which are bringing big changes in teams rankings in qualifications.
sr. member
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These two teams India and Pakistan have devotion in almost all countries. India and Pakistan are two very popular teams. But I think if those who like to watch cricket play, they will listen to the game of India and Pakistan team. I think they have a lot of work to do.  They will finish their work later and enjoy the game of two teams first. So it can be said that many fans are still waiting to watch the game of India and Pakistan. I support Pakistan. But if there is any game of India, I will watch the match of India.  I don't miss it because I like watching India play a lot.
I have a feeling that now they are overestimating the importance of India vs Pakistan matches. Previously we used to have 1-2 matches between these two teams every year. But now, in each ICC event, we have 2-3 matches. After some time, fans will get tired of this. BTW, on the political front, the relations between India and Pakistan have stabilized. But after 12 months, general elections are due in India. Usually during this time, there is always a heightened chance of something untoward happening (during 2019 elections, it was the Pulwama attacks).   
I agreed with you about this now life is completely change and peoples have no thrill about matches between Pakistan and India with recent changes which are happened in Pakistan things going from bad to worse peoples badly suffering and have no food so who cares about cricket and matches between these two countries in India after Narendra Modi regime life is also completely change with hate crimes are increasing drastically which is bringing changes in common peoples lives as well even they are doing good at developing and now having strong economy, but life is not easy for many communities.

But here you mention good thing every election we have something big which hit relationship between these two countries, so we can expect something as well in coming months because election is near, and they need some good action for having better results.
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Meanwhile PCB Chairman Najam Sethi has said that PCB will face 3 million USD loss in case they refuses to play the cup. He further said that PCB is ready to bear these loses as its "a matter of principle". It seems like we will see final decision about Asia Cup and Pakistan participation in ODI world cup very soon.
In my point of view ICC will never decide to expell Pakistan from ODI world cup. Because if we see that Pakistan and India matches give a handsome amount of revenue to ICC. And therefore ICC will not take this action. If ICC will make a good decision so the both teams India and Pakistan will play ICC. Otherwise these two boards are refusing and against each other. So the good decision will matter more.

When the two good teams play in the tournament,their supporters also want to watch the game. If there is a match between India and Pakistan the audience will have a lot of gathering, which I can definitely say that won't be as glamorous against others. As a proof of this, if we look at the last T20 World Cup, we will realize that when India was dropped from the tournament, the price of the ticket was also reduced. Finally i can say that if ICC want to get a big revenue then they have to create a positive environment for both of the two teams. Otherwise they may have to lose big revenue. As a cricket fan I would like to watch India and Pakistan match.
If the players of two teams are not strong in the game of cricket then the game of cricket will not be played. So I think if the two teams perform well in the game of cricket then the audience can enjoy watching the game.  The games are ruined due to the mistakes of the players. I am waiting to watch the Indian game. I will not be able to enjoy the Indian match for some days because the IPL league has started in India.
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