ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 830.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 19, 2022, 08:44:21 PM

^^^ Bygones are bygones. I don't want to further dig in to what happened between Kohli and Ganguly. Anyway, in the end it was Ganguly who suffered from the negative repercussions. BTW, I never denied the fact that Virat Kohli made India one of the giants in red-ball cricket. 5-6 years ago, India was essentially a one-man army while visiting the SENA nations. Virat was the only player who could adjust to the pace and bounce, as well as the seam movement in countries such as England, Australia and New Zealand. But those times are long gone. Nowadays he is literally becoming a burden on the Indian team.

Whenever any player gets into any kind of trouble with any member or personnel of the board, people generally support the player. That's exactly what happened in the case of Virat Kohli and Ganguly. I am not saying that Ganguly was not the one to blame. Obviously, even I supported Virat Kohli at that time. At the same time, it is true that Virat Kohli got a lot of chances that he probably did not deserve. And Ganguly also did not do the best that anyone could do at that moment.

I want to see some change in mentality when Binny gets appointed as the president of BCCI. Otherwise, it is going to be the same old story again. I am not sure how it will turn out. But I certainly think that he should learn from the mistakes of previous presidents. He should always prioritize improvement over money.

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Quote from: BobK71 on October 20, 2022, 12:03:27 AM

The entire cricket world was impressed by the support that Virat Kohli once gave to the Indian team. His performances were commendable and he also make world records in various fields. And because of all these reasons, he is being given various opportunities in the Indian team, but he is failing to grab that opportunity again and again. On the other hand, some cricketers are in great form. So there is nothing to do. Because there is no place for emotion in cricket. In that case, he is naturally a big burden for the Indian team.

Everyone have their ups and downs. But then, you can't keep someone who has been performing poorly for many years in the squad, just because he won a few matches for the team a long time back. That would be unfair to the younger players. And at this point, there is a fierce competition in the Indian team for the no.3 slot. So far the selectors have sticked to Kohli, despite his poor form. But they should not continue that for an infinite period of time. Kohli needs to be given a clear message that he will perish if the performance doesn't improve.

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Quote from: BobK71 on October 20, 2022, 12:03:27 AM

The entire cricket world was impressed by the support that Virat Kohli once gave to the Indian team. His performances were commendable and he also make world records in various fields. And because of all these reasons, he is being given various opportunities in the Indian team, but he is failing to grab that opportunity again and again. On the other hand, some cricketers are in great form. So there is nothing to do. Because there is no place for emotion in cricket. In that case, he is naturally a big burden for the Indian team.

Here I agreed with this all statement which is praising Virat Kohli and his ability which help India to have their best time in all formats but you guys are missing one person who done more than Virat Kohli, and he is MS Dhoni because this was not possible without his brave leadership he is surely until now one of the best captains in Indian cricket history and his achievements could be remembered for long time these both quality players done amazing stuff for their country and have too many records which are surely now going to be stayed for long time.

After Dhoni they are having few troubles and then suddenly we have bad time for Virat Kohli which is going until now and many are feeling now he is burden on Indian team which is right and with this all I am feeling now it's time for him to do some decision and take retirement from two formats ODI and T-20 with give time to IPL and just test matches which can give him better result.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 19, 2022, 08:44:21 PM

^^^ Bygones are bygones. I don't want to further dig in to what happened between Kohli and Ganguly. Anyway, in the end it was Ganguly who suffered from the negative repercussions. BTW, I never denied the fact that Virat Kohli made India one of the giants in red-ball cricket. 5-6 years ago, India was essentially a one-man army while visiting the SENA nations. Virat was the only player who could adjust to the pace and bounce, as well as the seam movement in countries such as England, Australia and New Zealand. But those times are long gone. Nowadays he is literally becoming a burden on the Indian team.

The entire cricket world was impressed by the support that Virat Kohli once gave to the Indian team. His performances were commendable and he also make world records in various fields. And because of all these reasons, he is being given various opportunities in the Indian team, but he is failing to grab that opportunity again and again. On the other hand, some cricketers are in great form. So there is nothing to do. Because there is no place for emotion in cricket. In that case, he is naturally a big burden for the Indian team.

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^^^ Bygones are bygones. I don't want to further dig in to what happened between Kohli and Ganguly. Anyway, in the end it was Ganguly who suffered from the negative repercussions. BTW, I never denied the fact that Virat Kohli made India one of the giants in red-ball cricket. 5-6 years ago, India was essentially a one-man army while visiting the SENA nations. Virat was the only player who could adjust to the pace and bounce, as well as the seam movement in countries such as England, Australia and New Zealand. But those times are long gone. Nowadays he is literally becoming a burden on the Indian team.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 19, 2022, 09:16:14 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 19, 2022, 07:17:38 AM

It sounded funny to my ears lol

Having a plan is not enough in the real world, you have to do some work too. His tenure had everything but that "Work". He could've done something if he wasn't busy settling a score with the players, leaking news, and doing advertisements all the time.

I was a big fan of dada during the 90s and early 2000s. Maybe because of that I would rather blame Kohli and Shah at this point. His relationship with Kohli was not good. But then, his questions were quite valid. Why was Kohli given a free run, despite such an extended period of bad form? And the management even persisted with him as the captain, despite his repeated blunders. Ganguly was someone who had the courage to question this. And he was made a scapegoat exactly because of his courageous behavior.

While i agree Virat had many problems but still i have a different take on this matter.

At the start i don't think he had the courage to face Virat despite having more power only because Virat was doing so well in Test cricket, yes they failed in ICC tournaments but no one can deny that the Indian test team were ruthless in red-ball cricket and witnessed new heights, it was all Kohli be it his aggressive approach or building a new crop of pace battery.

IMO both of these giants took things into their egos. Virat felt entitled that he can choose whatever he want, that was his biggest mistake as BCCI had a policy of 1 captain for all 3 formats or if not then 2 captains ( 1 for white ball and 1 for Red ball) Virat miscalculated this and messed thing up.

On the other hand, there was a big conversation gap between BCCI officials (Ganguly) and Skipper (Virat). It was BCCI's job to handle such incidents with proper channels and not leak news to the media from some anonymous source. Also some pathetic interviews from both sides, it made the situation worse.

Both parties were in fault but IMO it was Dada's job to keep everything in check as he was in top position, in which he failed miserably.

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Quote from: JSRAW on October 19, 2022, 07:17:38 AM

It sounded funny to my ears lol

Having a plan is not enough in the real world, you have to do some work too. His tenure had everything but that "Work". He could've done something if he wasn't busy settling a score with the players, leaking news, and doing advertisements all the time.

I was a big fan of dada during the 90s and early 2000s. Maybe because of that I would rather blame Kohli and Shah at this point. His relationship with Kohli was not good. But then, his questions were quite valid. Why was Kohli given a free run, despite such an extended period of bad form? And the management even persisted with him as the captain, despite his repeated blunders. Ganguly was someone who had the courage to question this. And he was made a scapegoat exactly because of his courageous behavior.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on October 19, 2022, 02:59:29 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 19, 2022, 12:08:52 AM

^^^ I am OK with Binny, because he was one of the masterminds behind the KPL. It is one of the most well managed state-level franchise leagues in India. And till now, I haven't heard any allegations of corruption or nepotism against Binny. The only concern is that KSCA seems to have a disproportionate influence in the BCCI administration. If Binny is able to treat all the 38 member associations equally, then I don't have any problem. And that said, I want to see how much freedom he is going to get, under Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur.

The final point you've made is more important. He could've got good plans, and when it comes to execution it'll be under the control of Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur. I don't know why political mix-up is being a big problem, and does this is the scenario with other cricket boards. Binny is an able person and being a former cricketer makes him appropriate for the position.

It sounded funny to my ears lol

Having a plan is not enough in the real world, you have to do some work too. His tenure had everything but that "Work". He could've done something if he wasn't busy settling a score with the players, leaking news, and doing advertisements all the time.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on October 19, 2022, 02:59:29 AM

The final point you've made is more important. He could've got good plans, and when it comes to execution it'll be under the control of Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur. I don't know why political mix-up is being a big problem, and does this is the scenario with other cricket boards. Binny is an able person and being a former cricketer makes him appropriate for the position.

Intervention from Jay Shah is a problem. Ganguly was somewhat OK with it, because he was politically minded he was comfortable with the intervention. I am not sure about Binny. If he is independent minded and not comfortable with just following orders, then there may be some trouble between him and the Shah-Thakur combination. And from what I have seen so far, Jay Shah is quite shrewd and business minded. A lot will depend on how much freedom Binny will get from Shah, and how much lenient Shah would be while dealing with Binny.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 19, 2022, 12:08:52 AM

^^^ I am OK with Binny, because he was one of the masterminds behind the KPL. It is one of the most well managed state-level franchise leagues in India. And till now, I haven't heard any allegations of corruption or nepotism against Binny. The only concern is that KSCA seems to have a disproportionate influence in the BCCI administration. If Binny is able to treat all the 38 member associations equally, then I don't have any problem. And that said, I want to see how much freedom he is going to get, under Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur.

The final point you've made is more important. He could've got good plans, and when it comes to execution it'll be under the control of Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur. I don't know why political mix-up is being a big problem, and does this is the scenario with other cricket boards. Binny is an able person and being a former cricketer makes him appropriate for the position.

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^^^ I am OK with Binny, because he was one of the masterminds behind the KPL. It is one of the most well managed state-level franchise leagues in India. And till now, I haven't heard any allegations of corruption or nepotism against Binny. The only concern is that KSCA seems to have a disproportionate influence in the BCCI administration. If Binny is able to treat all the 38 member associations equally, then I don't have any problem. And that said, I want to see how much freedom he is going to get, under Jay Shah and Anurag Thakur.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 18, 2022, 12:06:04 PM

Quote from: Juggy777 on October 18, 2022, 04:58:43 AM

I totally agree with you’ll and Ganguly could definitely have done better, and now I wonder if the new president who’s an ex World Cup winner will be able to do a better job or another 3 year’s will pass by and nothing really would have changed. Furthermore it’s an open secret that domestic matches performances no longer matter, and the only performances that matter are those seen in the IPL but I hope that BCCI focuses on domestic matches too, because we need new bowler’s who can immediately step up and play for team India.

Ganguly is young, and hopefully he will make a comeback sometime in the future. I don't know much about Binny and therefore I would give him the benefit of doubt. I really don't know how much freedom he will be having. The real power seems to be in the hands of Anurag Thakur and Jay Shah. And now coming to domestic matches, the quality is not getting any better. There are a total of 38 first class teams and vast majority of the matches are one-sided. And this is the reason why performance in Ranji trophy is hardly ever considered for the national team selection.

My dear Sithara007, I do understand what you are saying about giving Binny the benefit of the doubt. It is important to remember, however, that at the same time we must also understand that giving the benefit of the doubt to the wrong person can lead to a lot of mistakes being made. Honestly, there aren't many better alternatives available out there at the moment, which is the problem. Basically, the BCCI is stuck with only one option here.

Who knows, maybe in the future we might have to say that Ganguly was actually the better option after watching what Binny does in the future.

In the end, although I hate to admit it, but eventually, I must agree with @Sithara007 that India has no choice but to give Binny the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Good Luck

Duke

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Quote from: Juggy777 on October 18, 2022, 04:58:43 AM

I totally agree with you’ll and Ganguly could definitely have done better, and now I wonder if the new president who’s an ex World Cup winner will be able to do a better job or another 3 year’s will pass by and nothing really would have changed. Furthermore it’s an open secret that domestic matches performances no longer matter, and the only performances that matter are those seen in the IPL but I hope that BCCI focuses on domestic matches too, because we need new bowler’s who can immediately step up and play for team India.

Ganguly is young, and hopefully he will make a comeback sometime in the future. I don't know much about Binny and therefore I would give him the benefit of doubt. I really don't know how much freedom he will be having. The real power seems to be in the hands of Anurag Thakur and Jay Shah. And now coming to domestic matches, the quality is not getting any better. There are a total of 38 first class teams and vast majority of the matches are one-sided. And this is the reason why performance in Ranji trophy is hardly ever considered for the national team selection.

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Quote from: Ayers on October 17, 2022, 04:05:26 PM

We all know that in India political power is almost essential.
And if the BCCI President does not have enough political power he will not be able to work effectively.

Let me explain. I think if the BCCI President has the support of powerful politicians only then he will be able to work independently and not think about anyone telling him anything.
If that becomes a reality two things can happen:

The president is determined to work hard and try to improve the situation of Indian cricket.
The president will do anything that he wants because there is no one to say nothing to him. And that can be very problematic in the long run.

I agree with these all points but still we have to accept this thing right now BCCI is most powerful and richest board in the cricketing world but still one tag is also going with this which is surely not good as its also one of the most shit place as well because you have to do things for having support from politicians, and then you have to manage things which are not favourable to your enemy country because if you are not going to do things like these then surely you are not favourable person, and surely you could be down and out without any solid reason quickly.

Even mostly saying India is one of the biggest democracy but still not near this tag because they have many things which are not favourable for them, but they have to do because they never want to give any positive clue to others which is surely not good for this all hopefully we will have better and fair things in near future and this could be in better shape which is important for the development of this game and having more profitable for all cricketing fans around the India and world which is expecting good positive role from them.

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Quote from: GigaBit on October 18, 2022, 01:59:06 AM

Quote from: Tony116 on October 17, 2022, 03:15:43 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 09:20:17 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on October 16, 2022, 03:55:49 PM

But I don't think you are going to be able to get those kinds of players or even human beings, to be honest. If someone were to come to this post, he would likely think first about money before thinking about how to improve the board. It's just like any government that stays in power until they have looted enough of the nation. Additionally, I had a lot of positive thoughts about Ganguly, but those thoughts didn't turn out to be very accurate in the long run.
And honestly, if I am being blunt I really don't think anyone is willing to actually respect the first-class players or domestic players. At least not until they get paid a lot more than what they are being paid at the moment.

For the BCCI, money comes first nowadays. They just got an IPL deal worth $6 billion for 5-year period. That is more than 1 billion USD per year just from IPL itself. On top of that they receive funds from the ICC, sponsorship and also for the TV deal for international matches that are hosted in India. Their revenues have go up by 3-4 times in the last 5 years. And given the nature of politicians and businessmen in India, it would not surprise me if these guys rush to steal at least some of this huge amount.

BCCI actually has always thought about money first, people actually know that very well. The only reason they are getting away with this is because India is a very highly populated country and they have a population which is more than 1.38 billion and that's why they don't have much problems finding good talent. And the IPL is a great place for them to find young players. So, they basically don't have to worry about that. They have a really good infrastructure. The pipeline of India is also very good.

I really think that these are the reasons why even if India does not do too much they are going to find good players anyway. That is a reason why the BCCI personnel are much more interested in having money for themselves instead of actually finding raw talent.

If the cricket board has been doing this kind of practice for a long time, then the good cricketers may not be able to survive in cricket for a long time. It is true that India is a over populated country with many young talented players. But long time corruption will take a bigger shape at some point, Though it is not affected at the moment but it will have an effect on it after a long period of time.

I totally agree with you’ll and Ganguly could definitely have done better, and now I wonder if the new president who’s an ex World Cup winner will be able to do a better job or another 3 year’s will pass by and nothing really would have changed. Furthermore it’s an open secret that domestic matches performances no longer matter, and the only performances that matter are those seen in the IPL but I hope that BCCI focuses on domestic matches too, because we need new bowler’s who can immediately step up and play for team India.

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Quote from: Tony116 on October 17, 2022, 03:15:43 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 09:20:17 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on October 16, 2022, 03:55:49 PM

But I don't think you are going to be able to get those kinds of players or even human beings, to be honest. If someone were to come to this post, he would likely think first about money before thinking about how to improve the board. It's just like any government that stays in power until they have looted enough of the nation. Additionally, I had a lot of positive thoughts about Ganguly, but those thoughts didn't turn out to be very accurate in the long run.
And honestly, if I am being blunt I really don't think anyone is willing to actually respect the first-class players or domestic players. At least not until they get paid a lot more than what they are being paid at the moment.

For the BCCI, money comes first nowadays. They just got an IPL deal worth $6 billion for 5-year period. That is more than 1 billion USD per year just from IPL itself. On top of that they receive funds from the ICC, sponsorship and also for the TV deal for international matches that are hosted in India. Their revenues have go up by 3-4 times in the last 5 years. And given the nature of politicians and businessmen in India, it would not surprise me if these guys rush to steal at least some of this huge amount.

BCCI actually has always thought about money first, people actually know that very well. The only reason they are getting away with this is because India is a very highly populated country and they have a population which is more than 1.38 billion and that's why they don't have much problems finding good talent. And the IPL is a great place for them to find young players. So, they basically don't have to worry about that. They have a really good infrastructure. The pipeline of India is also very good.

I really think that these are the reasons why even if India does not do too much they are going to find good players anyway. That is a reason why the BCCI personnel are much more interested in having money for themselves instead of actually finding raw talent.

If the cricket board has been doing this kind of practice for a long time, then the good cricketers may not be able to survive in cricket for a long time. It is true that India is a over populated country with many young talented players. But long time corruption will take a bigger shape at some point, Though it is not affected at the moment but it will have an effect on it after a long period of time.

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Quote from: |MINER| on October 17, 2022, 02:41:31 PM

Quote from: Ayers on October 16, 2022, 02:55:57 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 08:12:55 AM

Well, in South Asia, it is impossible to get someone elected to the cricket administrative body without political backing. And this has been the case for the past many decades. The last president of BCCI who had no political affiliation was perhaps Jagmohan Dalmiya. He was also a businessman, but he kept out of politics. The scenario changed when BCCI (and later the ICC) was taken over by the Srinivasan-Pawar mafia. Now there are no such neutral individuals available for BCCI posts. Even Ganguly is considered to be very close to the ruling party, although he has refused to join them formally.

He is obviously not intending to join them formally when he is the President of BCCI. Because that is obviously enough to make people unsure about his credibility right? And even though he did not join politics directly I think he has close connections to a lot of politicians.
In addition, I also agree that you simply cannot find any candidate for the post of BCCI President who is politically neutral right now. It is very difficult to find people who are suitable for this job. So, I think if a person is politically influenced or not is the least of the worries for the BCCI. And anyone who is in line to be the President of BCCI right now is most likely to think about money first of all.

What have done to the other posts in the cricket board that is not much attract the attention. But the Indian Cricket Board President's position is the most desirable. So here a person must be qualified from both sides one is his own qualification and the other is his political relation. However, even though Competence is often underestimated. if the political aspect is not strong for one then the position does not belongs to him.

I think you made a great point here @|MINER|. We all know that in India political power is almost essential.
And if the BCCI President does not have enough political power he will not be able to work effectively.

Let me explain. I think if the BCCI President has the support of powerful politicians only then he will be able to work independently and not think about anyone telling him anything.
If that becomes a reality two things can happen:

The president is determined to work hard and try to improve the situation of Indian cricket.
The president will do anything that he wants because there is no one to say nothing to him. And that can be very problematic in the long run.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 09:20:17 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on October 16, 2022, 03:55:49 PM

But I don't think you are going to be able to get those kinds of players or even human beings, to be honest. If someone were to come to this post, he would likely think first about money before thinking about how to improve the board. It's just like any government that stays in power until they have looted enough of the nation. Additionally, I had a lot of positive thoughts about Ganguly, but those thoughts didn't turn out to be very accurate in the long run.
And honestly, if I am being blunt I really don't think anyone is willing to actually respect the first-class players or domestic players. At least not until they get paid a lot more than what they are being paid at the moment.

For the BCCI, money comes first nowadays. They just got an IPL deal worth $6 billion for 5-year period. That is more than 1 billion USD per year just from IPL itself. On top of that they receive funds from the ICC, sponsorship and also for the TV deal for international matches that are hosted in India. Their revenues have go up by 3-4 times in the last 5 years. And given the nature of politicians and businessmen in India, it would not surprise me if these guys rush to steal at least some of this huge amount.

BCCI actually has always thought about money first, people actually know that very well. The only reason they are getting away with this is because India is a very highly populated country and they have a population which is more than 1.38 billion and that's why they don't have much problems finding good talent. And the IPL is a great place for them to find young players. So, they basically don't have to worry about that. They have a really good infrastructure. The pipeline of India is also very good.

I really think that these are the reasons why even if India does not do too much they are going to find good players anyway. That is a reason why the BCCI personnel are much more interested in having money for themselves instead of actually finding raw talent.

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Quote from: Ayers on October 16, 2022, 02:55:57 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 08:12:55 AM

Quote from: GigaBit on October 15, 2022, 11:25:05 PM

Yes, whoever comes to power will focus on money. But many people sell the place of morality to money. In that respect I think Ganguly was quite suitable. Cricket is heavily influenced by politics these days. As a reflection of which I see the sudden departure of Ganguly. Now a days, it is no longer possible to get all those positions without political influence.

Well, in South Asia, it is impossible to get someone elected to the cricket administrative body without political backing. And this has been the case for the past many decades. The last president of BCCI who had no political affiliation was perhaps Jagmohan Dalmiya. He was also a businessman, but he kept out of politics. The scenario changed when BCCI (and later the ICC) was taken over by the Srinivasan-Pawar mafia. Now there are no such neutral individuals available for BCCI posts. Even Ganguly is considered to be very close to the ruling party, although he has refused to join them formally.

He is obviously not intending to join them formally when he is the President of BCCI. Because that is obviously enough to make people unsure about his credibility right? And even though he did not join politics directly I think he has close connections to a lot of politicians.

In addition, I also agree that you simply cannot find any candidate for the post of BCCI President who is politically neutral right now. It is very difficult to find people who are suitable for this job. So, I think if a person is politically influenced or not is the least of the worries for the BCCI. And anyone who is in line to be the President of BCCI right now is most likely to think about money first of all.

What have done to the other posts in the cricket board that is not much attract the attention. But the Indian Cricket Board President's position is the most desirable. So here a person must be qualified from both sides one is his own qualification and the other is his political relation. However, even though Competence is often underestimated. if the political aspect is not strong for one then the position does not belongs to him.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 16, 2022, 09:20:17 PM

Quote from: Tony116 on October 16, 2022, 03:55:49 PM

But I don't think you are going to be able to get those kinds of players or even human beings, to be honest. If someone were to come to this post, he would likely think first about money before thinking about how to improve the board. It's just like any government that stays in power until they have looted enough of the nation. Additionally, I had a lot of positive thoughts about Ganguly, but those thoughts didn't turn out to be very accurate in the long run.

And honestly, if I am being blunt I really don't think anyone is willing to actually respect the first-class players or domestic players. At least not until they get paid a lot more than what they are being paid at the moment.

For the BCCI, money comes first nowadays. They just got an IPL deal worth $6 billion for 5-year period. That is more than 1 billion USD per year just from IPL itself. On top of that they receive funds from the ICC, sponsorship and also for the TV deal for international matches that are hosted in India. Their revenues have go up by 3-4 times in the last 5 years. And given the nature of politicians and businessmen in India, it would not surprise me if these guys rush to steal at least some of this huge amount.

Yes, besides of all these reasons, politics has now entered cricket. People will have weakness towards money. But if it was properly controlled then it would not have any effect. Many people forget what to do when large amounts of money come to their hand. As a result, the distribution is not and will not be done properly. Anyway, we common people always want good cricket management and the good tournament.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 830. (Read 171156 times)