ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 952.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 07, 2021, 06:23:38 PM

Quote from: savetheFORUM on December 07, 2021, 03:16:07 PM

Quote from: CryptoBuds on December 07, 2021, 01:07:24 PM

it should not be happening at least in a developed country like South Africa. It has been a problem for a lot of countries about the Caste system. But I also think that sometimes people take it too far. They think that they are being neglected because they are black but they are not actually being neglected. But that is not mostly the case. I think the selectors are there to judge who plays cricket better, not which color of player plays better.

South Africa is not a developed country they have some serious issues, and recently we watch on media how things are going the worst due to corruption and bad management.

Currently South African biggest issue is corruption after death of Nelson Mandela ANC is completely failure in many cases, so they are also failed to bringing some better way into this cricket if they started some better way from start and bring kids from high schools then surely they don't need this quota or anything related to this for encouraging black players but sadly their leadership have no plane for this and doing quota which never help anyone in all cases now it is badly killing game and having serious issues.

I beg to differ SA is in a far better position than most South Asian countries. As per my understanding, there are two major problems in SA. The first is corruption and the second one big economic inequality. SA cricket board is the most corrupted board in the world and this has caused the decline in SA cricket.

Wherever there is money, automatically it gets to good development or it leads to such a negative side. Often we can see cricket boards having internal problems. In recent days the most corrupt being South Africa and West Indies. There is no racial act, West Indies struggled a lot to get their salaries. Finally senior players moved out of the team. Anyhow this can be organised and made to work flawless only if the government is ready to make a complete change of the management authorities.

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on December 07, 2021, 03:16:07 PM

Quote from: CryptoBuds on December 07, 2021, 01:07:24 PM

it should not be happening at least in a developed country like South Africa. It has been a problem for a lot of countries about the Caste system. But I also think that sometimes people take it too far. They think that they are being neglected because they are black but they are not actually being neglected. But that is not mostly the case. I think the selectors are there to judge who plays cricket better, not which color of player plays better.

South Africa is not a developed country they have some serious issues, and recently we watch on media how things are going the worst due to corruption and bad management.

Currently South African biggest issue is corruption after death of Nelson Mandela ANC is completely failure in many cases, so they are also failed to bringing some better way into this cricket if they started some better way from start and bring kids from high schools then surely they don't need this quota or anything related to this for encouraging black players but sadly their leadership have no plane for this and doing quota which never help anyone in all cases now it is badly killing game and having serious issues.

I beg to differ SA is in a far better position than most South Asian countries. As per my understanding, there are two major problems in SA. The first is corruption and the second one big economic inequality. SA cricket board is the most corrupted board in the world and this has caused the decline in SA cricket.

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Quote from: CryptoBuds on December 07, 2021, 01:07:24 PM

it should not be happening at least in a developed country like South Africa. It has been a problem for a lot of countries about the Caste system. But I also think that sometimes people take it too far. They think that they are being neglected because they are black but they are not actually being neglected. But that is not mostly the case. I think the selectors are there to judge who plays cricket better, not which color of player plays better.

South Africa is not a developed country they have some serious issues, and recently we watch on media how things are going the worst due to corruption and bad management.

Currently South African biggest issue is corruption after death of Nelson Mandela ANC is completely failure in many cases, so they are also failed to bringing some better way into this cricket if they started some better way from start and bring kids from high schools then surely they don't need this quota or anything related to this for encouraging black players but sadly their leadership have no plane for this and doing quota which never help anyone in all cases now it is badly killing game and having serious issues.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on December 07, 2021, 03:11:34 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 06, 2021, 09:41:58 PM

During the last two decades or so, the quality of South African cricket has gone down the drain. A large part of this has to do with the race based selection policies. They have been reduced to a second string test nation, from the position of one of the most powerful teams in world cricket. During the 1990s, South Africa had legends in their team, including Donald, Pollock, Kallis, Klusener and Smith. Now they don't have any, and perhaps Dale Steyn was the last such player whom they had.

Yes, no more players are popular. But, the team has got potential players who are capable of playing good cricket. The controversy continues for a long and no conclusion has been reached. The team players seems to have unity and there is no offending in the name of race. I believe the people of South Africa are much into it, and the same might be the reason for the cricket board to do selection criteria based on race.

^^ Yes, but it should not be happening at least in a developed country like South Africa. It has been a problem for a lot of countries about the Caste system. But I also think that sometimes people take it too far. They think that they are being neglected because they are black but they are not actually being neglected. But that is not mostly the case. I think the selectors are there to judge who plays cricket better, not which color of player plays better.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 06, 2021, 09:41:58 PM

Quote from: laurenB7742 on December 05, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.

Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

During the last two decades or so, the quality of South African cricket has gone down the drain. A large part of this has to do with the race based selection policies. They have been reduced to a second string test nation, from the position of one of the most powerful teams in world cricket. During the 1990s, South Africa had legends in their team, including Donald, Pollock, Kallis, Klusener and Smith. Now they don't have any, and perhaps Dale Steyn was the last such player whom they had.

Yes, no more players are popular. But, the team has got potential players who are capable of playing good cricket. The controversy continues for a long and no conclusion has been reached. The team players seems to have unity and there is no offending in the name of race. I believe the people of South Africa are much into it, and the same might be the reason for the cricket board to do selection criteria based on race.

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Quote from: laurenB7742 on December 05, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.

Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

During the last two decades or so, the quality of South African cricket has gone down the drain. A large part of this has to do with the race based selection policies. They have been reduced to a second string test nation, from the position of one of the most powerful teams in world cricket. During the 1990s, South Africa had legends in their team, including Donald, Pollock, Kallis, Klusener and Smith. Now they don't have any, and perhaps Dale Steyn was the last such player whom they had.

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Quote from: GbitG on December 05, 2021, 02:54:27 PM

Quote from: laurenB7742 on December 05, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 10:20:51 PM

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.
Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

Craze about cricket in Sub-Continent is same in all countries like Bangladesh, India and Pakistan but India has some good control just because of big market, so they are using their power and trying to sabotage cricket of small other countries for their market of IPL which is really concern right now they need to understand all things and live like UEFA countries with all having their share in this market and enjoy, but sadly mind set is not allowing this all. But good thing all is doing their own best for having good and fair play which is positive for this game of cricket and countries like South Africa and Zimbabwe are suffering because they have some big gape between black and white players quality sadly in last 3 decades blacks unable to adopt this in better way and still using quota and other bad tactics for control which is hurting them in long run.

I think that the main problem here is everybody is thinking more self-centered and not thinking about the distant future. Yes, I am not saying that there is no racism in football. In fact, I think that racism is still a really big problem in football and we can see that in the field even sometimes. But the problem is we see racism in football maybe sometimes on the field but with the footballers, the selectors for the coaches never do racist stuff or something as far as I know. But in cricket, the situation is absolutely rivers because fans don't even know what racism is in cricket but the selectors and the cricket boards know, it very well and that's why sometimes good players don't come forward.

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Quote from: CDC AP on December 05, 2021, 11:44:54 PM

the craze for cricket in all the countries of indian subcontinent is huge. Not only in India but in Bangladesh and pakistan it is huge just india has more population more media coverage and more money we only hear about india but fans of Bangladesh are more crazy than indian I believe.
Sad to see teams like Zimbabwe specially who were once a very competitive side in the past but now ICC banned them and we dont see them in ICC tournaments.

Domestic issues killing cricket in many countries like West Indies, South Africa and Zimbabwe because these related to their local leadership and ICC or any international institute can't do anything which is really hurting this game of cricket very badly recently, Sometime back Sri Lanka was also facing some problems, but now they are doing much better and having some better players through their talent hunt programs Bangladesh is also improving even it's not as its basic need still doing some good Afghanistan facing some serious dilemma because of security issue at their home and playing cricket in the UAE.

Overall cricket is in not good shape due to lack of leadership which can bring some better reforms and having better future for countries those are really serious to spread this.

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Quote from: jostorres on December 05, 2021, 02:42:59 PM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on December 05, 2021, 11:25:13 AM

I really don't think that people disagree with going to Pakistan, for two hours is going to be certain that Pakistan is to play cricket. I mean that is not a thing for sure right? Pakistan is going to be a great cricket-playing nation or whether or not anyone admits it or not. The problem is that the media is trying to portray that most of the Muslim cricket-playing nations are basically terrorists. so people are also starting to believe that, even though maybe they don't want to.

Currently, just Indian media is doing his usual job as they are doing this all for 74 years against Pakistan not against all Muslim countries because they can't afford this they have very strong business relationship with them, and they need to be with them, so they are never doing against any other country it's all happening against Pakistan as its biggest problem for Indian politicians and media which need this for their profit and common peoples involvement in dirty politics.

After Afghanistan war this all started very strongly as they lost very big investments, and now they want to spread this all against Pakistan even we all know it's all useless now they can't enter in Afghanistan as they have done this all in presence of the USA and allay countries. Good things many countries still understand this all and having good view and relationship so hopefully in near future more things could be flexible, and we will be able to have some better cricketing environment in more countries.

Well, we all know that India has to keep a good relationship with certain Islamic countries because they are way too powerful for India to handle. I am obviously not saying that Pakistan is weak but we all can agree that India had no right to those Pakistan people on the border. We all know that the land rightfully belongs to Pakistan. And obviously, Indian media will always try to cover up and play the victim. And tell me one more thing, FIFA has always faced this type of problem with a lot of countries but they handled it well enough. But the problem is when it ICC has only 10 to 15 cricket-playing Nations and one or two often loses its playing status because of these shitfuckery, why would the other Nations be interested?

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Quote from: GbitG on December 05, 2021, 02:54:27 PM

Quote from: laurenB7742 on December 05, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 10:20:51 PM

Quote from: perfect999 on December 04, 2021, 03:08:02 PM

In next few years surely we are going to lose some more in South Africa and in Pakistan which could be big concern for them.

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.

Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

Craze about cricket in Sub-Continent is same in all countries like Bangladesh, India and Pakistan but India has some good control just because of big market, so they are using their power and trying to sabotage cricket of small other countries for their market of IPL which is really concern right now they need to understand all things and live like UEFA countries with all having their share in this market and enjoy, but sadly mind set is not allowing this all. But good thing all is doing their own best for having good and fair play which is positive for this game of cricket and countries like South Africa and Zimbabwe are suffering because they have some big gape between black and white players quality sadly in last 3 decades blacks unable to adopt this in better way and still using quota and other bad tactics for control which is hurting them in long run.

Yes the craze for cricket in all the countries of indian subcontinent is huge. Not only in India but in Bangladesh and pakistan it is huge just india has more population more media coverage and more money we only hear about india but fans of Bangladesh are more crazy than indian I believe.
Sad to see teams like Zimbabwe specially who were once a very competitive side in the past but now ICC banned them and we dont see them in ICC tournaments.

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Quote from: laurenB7742 on December 05, 2021, 01:02:46 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 10:20:51 PM

Quote from: perfect999 on December 04, 2021, 03:08:02 PM

In next few years surely we are going to lose some more in South Africa and in Pakistan which could be big concern for them.

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.

Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

Craze about cricket in Sub-Continent is same in all countries like Bangladesh, India and Pakistan but India has some good control just because of big market, so they are using their power and trying to sabotage cricket of small other countries for their market of IPL which is really concern right now they need to understand all things and live like UEFA countries with all having their share in this market and enjoy, but sadly mind set is not allowing this all. But good thing all is doing their own best for having good and fair play which is positive for this game of cricket and countries like South Africa and Zimbabwe are suffering because they have some big gape between black and white players quality sadly in last 3 decades blacks unable to adopt this in better way and still using quota and other bad tactics for control which is hurting them in long run.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on December 05, 2021, 11:25:13 AM

I really don't think that people disagree with going to Pakistan, for two hours is going to be certain that Pakistan is to play cricket. I mean that is not a thing for sure right? Pakistan is going to be a great cricket-playing nation or whether or not anyone admits it or not. The problem is that the media is trying to portray that most of the Muslim cricket-playing nations are basically terrorists. so people are also starting to believe that, even though maybe they don't want to.

Currently, just Indian media is doing his usual job as they are doing this all for 74 years against Pakistan not against all Muslim countries because they can't afford this they have very strong business relationship with them, and they need to be with them, so they are never doing against any other country it's all happening against Pakistan as its biggest problem for Indian politicians and media which need this for their profit and common peoples involvement in dirty politics.

After Afghanistan war this all started very strongly as they lost very big investments, and now they want to spread this all against Pakistan even we all know it's all useless now they can't enter in Afghanistan as they have done this all in presence of the USA and allay countries. Good things many countries still understand this all and having good view and relationship so hopefully in near future more things could be flexible, and we will be able to have some better cricketing environment in more countries.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 10:20:51 PM

Quote from: perfect999 on December 04, 2021, 03:08:02 PM

In next few years surely we are going to lose some more in South Africa and in Pakistan which could be big concern for them.

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

Pakistan is really mad for cricket and we can see that by the support they give to their players. Pakistan players will always have to agree to that.

Recently I've seen this video: https://www.facebook.com/PakistanCricketBoard/videos/1420009361734477 they got worm welcome in Bangladesh tour.
I also like the way the Pakistan cricketers acknowledged the support of their fans in the recent series in Bangladesh. Pakistan will never lose their hope in cricket in my opinion and this should also be the same case about South Africa even though I know that some other sports are popular in that country too. You know, South Africa has given us some world-class players and some great memories in cricket and we would like them to continue doing that."

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on December 05, 2021, 09:42:42 AM

Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 05, 2021, 12:58:13 AM

If countries continue to refuse to tour Pakistan as they are doing right now, I am sure Pakistanis will lose interest in cricket. You can see interest of Pakistanis in cricket from crowd in any match, not many come to see cricket in grounds. PSL is also not a success as most of international players are not coming to play in Pakistan.

Talking about this is useless because now PSL is having some good success many good players already involved and few announces about playing in this is already on record, so please stop this all it is matter of time all is going to be clear soon. They already have some good contracts about Television rights and now matches completely shifting in Pakistan is good signs for them.

Sadly peoples like you with sick mind still having problems about this all just wait for some more time you will watch how things are going in their favour because right now after IPL adding 2 more teams few players will feel not good about this even they have some good finances package, but they need some better way for their own sack as well so few players will join here in PSL instead of IPL work load is also having good help for them.

I really don't think that people disagree with going to Pakistan, for two hours is going to be certain that Pakistan is to play cricket. I mean that is not a thing for sure right? Pakistan is going to be a great cricket-playing nation or whether or not anyone admits it or not. The problem is that the media is trying to portray that most of the Muslim cricket-playing nations are basically terrorists. so people are also starting to believe that, even though maybe they don't want to.

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on December 05, 2021, 09:42:42 AM

Talking about this is useless because now PSL is having some good success many good players already involved and few announces about playing in this is already on record, so please stop this all it is matter of time all is going to be clear soon. They already have some good contracts about Television rights and now matches completely shifting in Pakistan is good signs for them.

Sadly peoples like you with sick mind still having problems about this all just wait for some more time you will watch how things are going in their favour because right now after IPL adding 2 more teams few players will feel not good about this even they have some good finances package, but they need some better way for their own sack as well so few players will join here in PSL instead of IPL work load is also having good help for them.

It will be good news for Pakistan cricket fans that more foreign players are jumping in. Can you name anyone from Aus, NZ and England willing to play psl in Pakistan? I guess there won't be many. Ipl is much bigger industry then psl, so it's not a valid comparison. Pakistan need international cricket on there home ground ASAP

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 05, 2021, 12:58:13 AM

If countries continue to refuse to tour Pakistan as they are doing right now, I am sure Pakistanis will lose interest in cricket. You can see interest of Pakistanis in cricket from crowd in any match, not many come to see cricket in grounds. PSL is also not a success as most of international players are not coming to play in Pakistan.

Talking about this is useless because now PSL is having some good success many good players already involved and few announces about playing in this is already on record, so please stop this all it is matter of time all is going to be clear soon. They already have some good contracts about Television rights and now matches completely shifting in Pakistan is good signs for them.

Sadly peoples like you with sick mind still having problems about this all just wait for some more time you will watch how things are going in their favour because right now after IPL adding 2 more teams few players will feel not good about this even they have some good finances package, but they need some better way for their own sack as well so few players will join here in PSL instead of IPL work load is also having good help for them.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 10:20:51 PM

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

If countries continue to refuse to tour Pakistan as they are doing right now, I am sure Pakistanis will lose interest in cricket. You can see interest of Pakistanis in cricket from crowd in any match, not many come to see cricket in grounds. PSL is also not a success as most of international players are not coming to play in Pakistan.

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Quote from: perfect999 on December 04, 2021, 03:08:02 PM

In next few years surely we are going to lose some more in South Africa and in Pakistan which could be big concern for them.

Maybe South Africa, but definitely not Pakistan. I know how crazy Pakistanis are for cricket (same with Sri Lanka as well). It is the most popular sport, and that too by a big margin. Now they have established the PSL and it is attracting new fans as well. There is concern regarding the refusal of various teams to tour Pakistan, but that is applicable to all the sports and not just cricket. But I agree with you on South Africa. Rugby and Football are far more popular there, especially among the black population. On top of that, dozens of good players emigrate every year, to England, New Zealand, Australia and even to associate nations.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 04, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

Cricket is being reduced to a sport that is concentrated only in the sub-continent and among the sub-continental diaspora. You ask someone from USA, Russia, Brazil, Nigeria, China or Japan whether they have heard about cricket, and they would reply that it is an insect. Due to lack of support from the ICC, some of the associate nations which are having more than a hundred years of cricketing history are now vanishing from the cricket scene. I am talking about countries such as Denmark, Netherlands, Canada, Argentina and Kenya.

Agree with your statement even now cricket is not having good marketing in Australia and New Zealand because Rugby is taking very good place as I was watching a channel and Anchor was asking questions about cricket in Australia I was shocked there is no good knowledge even many no have idea about great cricketers from these countries.

This craze is available only in Sub-Continent so ICC feeling very happy with some good funds from these countries and enjoying luxuries without doing any good and positive marketing about this sport in Latino America which is also big market for this sport we are losing grounds in Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and in West Indies.
In next few years surely we are going to lose some more in South Africa and in Pakistan which could be big concern for them.

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Quote from: og kush420 on December 04, 2021, 01:03:54 PM

If you google "popular sports in the world", you will find cricket among top 3 sports on almost all sites. If ICC is not interested in making cricket popular they why we already see cricket among worlds most popular games? With IPL taking place every year, cricketers are getting money equivalent to English premier leagues players.

Cricket is being reduced to a sport that is concentrated only in the sub-continent and among the sub-continental diaspora. You ask someone from USA, Russia, Brazil, Nigeria, China or Japan whether they have heard about cricket, and they would reply that it is an insect. Due to lack of support from the ICC, some of the associate nations which are having more than a hundred years of cricketing history are now vanishing from the cricket scene. I am talking about countries such as Denmark, Netherlands, Canada, Argentina and Kenya.

Topic: ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 952. (Read 161657 times)