Topic: Off-Topic - page 10. (Read 384416 times)

Ya, you're a racist.  Clearly your comment was derogatory in nature to Yifu's cultural origin.

Are you done gracing this thread with your presence?

"Racist"?

Oh, gimmee a fuckin' break!

That is Peter Sellers in the role of Dr. Fu Manchu in "The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu"!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080731/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1

Jesus Christ on a raft!

My $.02.

The refunds are being sent to the planet Niribu.



You have to log in to get yours.

Or wait until it orbits around again.......................

Terrahash, this is what am I asking myself also?

When are the refunds being sent?

Now, this is gold!! If you're aware of that it means that you are good learning of life. The every human being is at the end judging by himself.

And you dear LostDutchman, sir, you have to many ideals about everything. You try to find a sense to every question in life with, knowing and get involved in too many disciplines. You are messing more and more and in the end you will only hurt yourself and your closest. I am suggesting that you take in hand some books, that will show you how to accept others and of course yourself

Well , I can start a few business and drive them to bankruptcy without ever making a final product , even to a point that it makes it sound legal.
A few slightly overpriced costs , a few extra workers (friends) with high wages, throw in a few "accidents" that delayed production and damaged the facility and there you have it.

If the money is gone, it is just not in plain sight.  And further points to fraud because how could the money be gone if he didn't produce anything?

Terrahash already received refund from Yifu.

Cloudhashing has not been refunded yet, AFAIK.

And Amir, with this pyrrhic victory, will have trouble seeking gainful employment.  Unless hiring a felon and/or a well documented thief is your thing.  Good thing he'll have all that BTC to pad his life eh?  Remember... Google cache is not your friend.

Nice racist touch to your last post.  You done repeating yourself yet? I am!

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As for the "I told you so" statement.  Be my guest... I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong when I am.  However, I've not laid any claims other than claims that what you say are assumptions and have no facts behind them.

Incorrect and inaccurate assumptions are the root cause of most bad things.  We humans tend to shortcut things in our minds based on past experiences.  Once you see how fallible you are in that regard, you'll want to substantiate your hunch before jumping to conclusions.  After all, someone in this thread is bound to be right about the situation.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

However, you just keep going on and on about your hunches, and how you don't see fraud here.  If things turn out the way you predict them to be, it looks every bit like fraud from end to end.  You don't think that renting an office and buying some resistors and caps makes it look like good intentions do you?  Heck, I was neighbors with someone who bilked millions of dollars out of people, drained hard working teachers of their retirement accounts.  He had an office.  He even sent out earnings statements.  Search "Prime Bank Note Fraud".  Heck, this guy even said "god bless" to most folks at the end of their conversation.

In the end, I don't think courts will look favorably on this fellow.  He didn't produce or ship a single widget.  Just took in large sums of cash and cash equivalents and bailed.  He created a nice atmosphere to encourage trust (renting an office, allowing folks to stop by and see the mouser deliveries, etc).  Like any white collar criminal,  they put some pride into their crime.

Whoever is right in this situation is not important.  What is important are that folks who put money into this con are 100 percent restored.

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If the money is gone it makes no difference and you can get all the judgements you want but if they are not enforceable you end up with a thing called a Pyrrhic victory and the creditors are running around like puppies chasing their tails.

Terrahash had a good idea, it didn't work out and both Terrahash and its customers got it up the Strada Chocolata.

Unless I am incorrect, Terrahash is still waiting on a refund from Dr. Fu Manchu; I mean Yifu.



I wonder if Benny and Cloudhashing got refunds?

Anyone ask yet?

My $.02.

As for the "I told you so" statement.  Be my guest... I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong when I am.  However, I've not laid any claims other than claims that what you say are assumptions and have no facts behind them.

Incorrect and inaccurate assumptions are the root cause of most bad things.  We humans tend to shortcut things in our minds based on past experiences.  Once you see how fallible you are in that regard, you'll want to substantiate your hunch before jumping to conclusions.  After all, someone in this thread is bound to be right about the situation.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while

However, you just keep going on and on about your hunches, and how you don't see fraud here.  If things turn out the way you predict them to be, it looks every bit like fraud from end to end.  You don't think that renting an office and buying some resistors and caps makes it look like good intentions do you?  Heck, I was neighbors with someone who bilked millions of dollars out of people, drained hard working teachers of their retirement accounts.  He had an office.  He even sent out earnings statements.  Search "Prime Bank Note Fraud".  Heck, this guy even said "god bless" to most folks at the end of their conversation.

In the end, I don't think courts will look favorably on this fellow.  He didn't produce or ship a single widget.  Just took in large sums of cash and cash equivalents and bailed.  He created a nice atmosphere to encourage trust (renting an office, allowing folks to stop by and see the mouser deliveries, etc).  Like any white collar criminal,  they put some pride into their crime.

Whoever is right in this situation is not important.  What is important are that folks who put money into this con are 100 percent restored.

I would remind you that by its own admission, Cloudhashing funded Terrahash.

Wondering if CH got refunds, mmmmmm?

And the plot thickens.

My $.02.



http://bflfraud.com/

6/27/2013 6:09:51 AM] Me: Wow!
[6/27/2013 6:10:00 AM] Me: Who else have you ordered from?
[6/27/2013 6:10:10 AM] Benny: KNCminer and around $80k with Terrahash

"[6/27/2013 6:10:18 AM] Benny: we basically funded Terrahash to run their business
[6/27/2013 6:10:25 AM] Me: I see
[6/27/2013 6:10:26 AM] Benny: they used our money to buy their chips
[6/27/2013 6:10:42 AM] Me: I see
[6/27/2013 6:10:48 AM] Me: Any free samples?
[6/27/2013 6:10:50 AM] Me: LOL!
[6/27/2013 6:10:55 AM] Benny: We did
[6/27/2013 6:10:58 AM] Benny: We had free contracts on our site"

A very cogent and well-written argument and I understand the veil perhaps better than you think but it still all comes down to whether or not there is any money to be had.

I don't think there is but I have a feeling we all will soon find out.

Thank you for your input!

My $.02.

Honestly man, you don't understand the corporate veil as well as you think you do.  A corporation can not collect money from customers to fund the start up then blow it all and leave the customers holding the bag.  That in itself whether fraud or not directly, is enough to pierce the veil easily.  There is a reason why no sane business in the real world use's customer PRE-ORDER money to fund the start up and the reason is because it opens up instantly and easily a way to pierce the veil.

No problem on the eye patch thing because you have to have a little fun where you find it!

I also have a missing finger and boy do we have fun with that one sometimes!



As far as my assumptions go, they are indeed assumptions but pretty good ones I think.

(1) Piercing the corporate veil: I just don't see any intent to defraud here; a couple of serious fuckups but no fraud, therefore it is unlikely that personal liability would come into play.  Fucking up isn't fraud.

(2) I think it is pretty clear that if there was any money, more refunds would be forthcoming and they are not.  The probability that both the corporation and the principals are dead broke is pretty good, so however the complaints and lawsuits turn out, I don't think there is going to be anything of significance for creditors and "customers" to latch onto in the event of judgements.

This will play out and we will see.

My $.02.



P.S>:  If it turns out that I am correct in the assumptions, I promise to not say "I told you so!"............

.....Too many times, anyway!

Dude most folks around here think the corporate veil is an instant win button for the owners, I can assure you it isn't.  Let me share with you all (once again) one of the most common reasons that the CV is pierced, under capitalization of a start up.  Now for those of you who need a little help let me explain briefly why I believe TH was under cap'd.  When a company enters into a sales agreement with a customer and they take the customers money before they ship a product that money is considered a debt on the companies books ie a liability.  They were spending that debt on products AND services (and overhead, fucking idiots) and they were not getting enough "assets" in return to cover those liabilities.  Now the shit hits the fan and they can no longer deliver any type of product.  A properly funded start-up would have enough "assets" to cover the liabilities and refund the customers (sorry investors you are the bag holders here), an under cap'd start up does not have sufficient assets to cover liabilities, sorry customers you are the bag holders here).

You guys really need to understand the legal implications and risks involved with starting a business and entering into a sales agreement.  Customers  do not take the same risks as investors.  The law has different definitions and protection measures for investors and customers, there is no definition for investomers.  Going after the principals assets here seems like a pretty easy task for a competent lawyer, all it takes is a few burned customers to make it happen.  If the principals have any personal assets or not to go after is an entirely different question all together.  I thought I read somewhere in this thread that Amir sold his house late this summer, I wonder why he did that, expecting the worst perhaps...  If that was the case time is of the essence, he already has the jump on you guys.

After all is said and done if you're a burned TH customer get advice from an actual legal professional, they may be vultures but listening to a bunch of libertarian interwebz lawyers is pretty stupid.

You customers that have been taken for a ride have some power left.  It should be pretty easy to argue all this in a court and TH has ZERO defence.

My apologies for the ad hominem argument.  Lets switch over to red herring with BFL.

Just kidding.

There are still two assumptions you make.

1.  The corporate veil cannot be pierced.  If you've done a few laps on the track, you'll know that if a corp has no significant assets, a creditor can attempt to prove that the corp is not acting as a separate entity but is the alter ego of its officers.  (paraphrasing investopedia).  It's not uncommon for C corp shareholders to worry about personal liability.  It's not bulletproof.

2.  They have no money (BTC or USD).

And while you've tried to illustrate your rationalization for these assumptions.  They are, in fact, assumptions.  And they could very well be, and likely are, incorrect.

Again, my apologies for poking fun at your eye patch.

Sorry I wasn't trying to attack or offend, bridges are still safe lol.  I was just pointing out as you yourself say, you are repeating yourself quite a bit, and obviously not helping the situation here regardless of your intention.  Maybe that was a bad analogy on my part. 

See, I actually just have the 2 cents, because you can't keep giving me the same 2 cents over and over again.  If you show up with something to say that is somehow different than what you have been repeating for the last several pages of this thread, then I might have 4 cents one day 

You made your point and you might be right, but there is no reason to continue repeating it.  Repetition won't make your point any more valid, it will just ( as you can already see ) start annoying people, no matter how right it may be.

It is pointless to say anything in forward as that is only growing fear in people. You are not a god so you cannot know, what may happen. And if they return in one year from now, someone will say, you were not right. So, please, leave it with the assumptions, as they are very relative ...

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That is the big problem, and it's gonna cost you a lot of money to prove it in court.
Unfortunately , LostDutchman is right , he might not put it in the right words a man scammed by terrahash would want to hear but , this is it.
[/quote]

Thank you for your kind input and your rational and reasonable reply.

I wish I were wrong but I am not.

I have read the writing on the wall, have seen the Light (Or lack of it!)  and can see the darkenss at the end of the tunnel.

I sincerely wish things were otherwise.

When it comes to explaining bad situations, I tend to be down and dirty; I will call a spade a spade; there is no point in guilding lilies but at the same time I am sincerely trying to soften the inevitable blow by making folks awayre that it is coming.

Thank you again for your kind post.

My $.02.

That is the big problem, and it's gonna cost you a lot of money to prove it in court.
Unfortunately , LostDutchman is right , he might not put it in the right words a man scammed by terrahash would want to hear but , this is it.