Topic: Off-Topic - page 14. (Read 384416 times)

Although I wrote that I was out of this thread, I will weigh in one last time to explain just how court ordered chargebacks work.

I'm not going to tell you a pack of lies; I'm only going to tell you how things work in the real world.

First, Paypal does not, repeat DOES NOT dispute court orders.  Not now, not everl NEVER! It's just not worth the cost to them.  Right in the Terms of Service, it is as well.

Now, let us assume for the sake of discussion that Terrahash has filed a bankruptacy proceeding and that all transactions within 90 days of that filing are being examined by the Court Trustee.

Now the Court Trustee, he's tokin' on a number and diggin' on the radio while he looks at these transactions, finds a few he doesn't like, looks out over the bow of the ship that is Paypal and says, "I'm gonna move you Baby!" and he does, right into the Terrahash Paypal account, instigating a chargeback which Paypal will immediately pay to the Court but wait.....................................

The Terrahash bank accounts are either empty or have been seized already by the Trustee and there is no money to be had from that quarter.

Now Paypal, being the Evil Empire of payment processing is not going to stand for this or any other kind of loss so the Paypal guy, who is also tokin' on a number and diggin' on the radio takes a look around and sends a chargeback to the person who received the refund payment.

BANG!

The entire amount of the funds paid to the Court is now charged back to the person(s) who received the refund in the first place, zapped by Paypal from either the associated bank account or credit card.

This is how it works and the ship that is the Paypal account of the person who received the refund acts as though it has hit an iceberg and goes right on down!

If the person wants to fight the chargeback, it will be up to that person to secure legal counsel, which counsel will require a hefty retainer which number might even exceed the amount of the chargeback and there will be little hope of recovery of the funds.

Now there is a way to protect yourself against such chargebacks but the method will result in the loss of your Paypal account, which is probably going to happen anyway, so no real damage done.

Here are the steps you would take:

(1) Make NO changes to the Paypal account itself so as to not draw unwanted attention to what you are doing.


(2) Clean out your Paypal account, leaving only USD $1 in it.  If you sent the money from the Paypal account to your bank account, wait until the money hits the bank account before proceeding to Steps 3 and 4.

(3) Close the bank account associated with the Paypal account but don't tell Paypal.  They will not know unless and until they try to charge back to that bank account.

(4) Cancel any and all credit or ATM cards associated with the Paypal account but again, don't tell Paypal.  They'll figure it out if they try to charge back.

Now if Paypal does attempt a chargeback and you have followed the above steps, you are at least temporarily immune to chargebacks.  Your Paypal account will be locked and Paypal will email you to death to try to get you to update your account with new info.

Ignore them.

Following this plan will get you smooth sailing for at least a while and protect your hard earned funds from what amounts to legalised theft due to the actions of Terrahash & Co.

If you are lucky and depending on the amount involved, Paypal will only send you nasty letters and eventually go away, turning the bad account over to a collection agency.

If you are not so lucky and the amount is large enough, Paypal will instigate legal action against you but that scenario is not really very likely as such actions are often just not worth the time and expence involved.

My $.02.



P.S.: Apologies to Jamie Brockett.

Ya fuckin' think?

Jesus Christ on a raft!

If Terrahash were set up as an LLC, the business entity would read, "Terrahash, LLC", NOT "Terrahash, Inc".

Crikey, I have set up over 250 corporations for people and do in point of fact have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about.

My continued presence in this thread constitutes the casting of pearls before swine, not to mention engaging in arguments with people who only want to argue.

My $.02.

.

To those of you who invested with Terrahash, Good Night and Good Luck!


[/quote]

If you setup 250+ corporations then you should know the difference between an "investor" and a 'customer'.   Saying
Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Absent intentional fraud, if the corporation bankrupts out, the principals will walk away unscathed.

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.


[/quote]

You setup 250+ corporations but don't know the difference between an "investor" and a 'customer'?  

AYou are wrong about the principals walking away unscathed.  Terrahash was undercapitalized and lacked sufficient paid in capital to prevent the corporation from being an alter ego of Amir Khan and Tarandeep Gill aka Justin.  Piercing the corporate shield and proving that Terrahash is in fact an alter ego of Amir Kahn and Tarandeep Gill will be easy.  Terrahash, Amir, and Tarandeep are already being sued for Fraud in Santa Clara County Superior Court.  See:http://www.sccaseinfo.org/pa6.asp?full_case_number=1-13-CV-254284&crumbs=Civil%20Index&crumbs=Party/Case%20Type%20Search&crumbs=Party/Case%20Type%20Results&crumbs=Cases%20Involving%20Amir%20Khan

If you are owed money by Terrahash you can file a complaint with the Santa Clara County District Attorney's office, sue them in Superior Court, or small claims court. The small claims court process is simple, it's inexpensive, and you can file for up to $10,000 which would probably cover most of Terrahash's customers.  The process take about 15 minutes; fill out two pages of information, pay the clerk $100, serve Terrhash (it's easy) and you'll be in court about 30 days later. If you go to small claims court you're making a claim for cash, it doesn't matter if you paid with BTC, WIRE, or PayPal.  Assuming you win your case, which you will,  you'll be awarded a judgement for cash.  The judgement is good for 10 years and the county sheriffs office will help you collect on your judgement.  You can seize earnings, cash, bank accounts, cars, homes, and any other real property belonging to the defendant(s).  The judgement will also appear on the defendant's credit report.   If you don't live in bay area you can file a complaint with the District Attorney's office and they'll advocate and mediate on your behalf, plus they have the power of enforcement.  You do not have to settle for a partial refund.



[/quote]

Had not seen this.  Nicely done showing this.  Might explain why we have even heard a word from TH account.  Now they can say they have made statement on here within past months.

You know LLC stands for Limited Liability Company right, it is a form of incorperation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company
[/quote]

Ya fuckin' think?

Jesus Christ on a raft!

If Terrahash were set up as an LLC, the business entity would read, "Terrahash, LLC", NOT "Terrahash, Inc".

Crikey, I have set up over 250 corporations for people and do in point of fact have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about.

My continued presence in this thread constitutes the casting of pearls before swine, not to mention engaging in arguments with people who only want to argue.

My $.02.

.

To those of you who invested with Terrahash, Good Night and Good Luck!


[/quote]

If you setup 250+ corporations then you should know the difference between an "investor" and a 'customer'.   Saying
Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Absent intentional fraud, if the corporation bankrupts out, the principals will walk away unscathed.

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.


[/quote]

You setup 250+ corporations but don't know the difference between an "investor" and a 'customer'?  

AYou are wrong about the principals walking away unscathed.  Terrahash was undercapitalized and lacked sufficient paid in capital to prevent the corporation from being an alter ego of Amir Khan and Tarandeep Gill aka Justin.  Piercing the corporate shield and proving that Terrahash is in fact an alter ego of Amir Kahn and Tarandeep Gill will be easy.  Terrahash, Amir, and Tarandeep are already being sued for Fraud in Santa Clara County Superior Court.  See:http://www.sccaseinfo.org/pa6.asp?full_case_number=1-13-CV-254284&crumbs=Civil%20Index&crumbs=Party/Case%20Type%20Search&crumbs=Party/Case%20Type%20Results&crumbs=Cases%20Involving%20Amir%20Khan

If you are owed money by Terrahash you can file a complaint with the Santa Clara County District Attorney's office, sue them in Superior Court, or small claims court. The small claims court process is simple, it's inexpensive, and you can file for up to $10,000 which would probably cover most of Terrahash's customers.  The process take about 15 minutes; fill out two pages of information, pay the clerk $100, serve Terrhash (it's easy) and you'll be in court about 30 days later. If you go to small claims court you're making a claim for cash, it doesn't matter if you paid with BTC, WIRE, or PayPal.  Assuming you win your case, which you will,  you'll be awarded a judgement for cash.  The judgement is good for 10 years and the county sheriffs office will help you collect on your judgement.  You can seize earnings, cash, bank accounts, cars, homes, and any other real property belonging to the defendant(s).  The judgement will also appear on the defendant's credit report.   If you don't live in bay area you can file a complaint with the District Attorney's office and they'll advocate and mediate on your behalf, plus they have the power of enforcement.  You do not have to settle for a partial refund.

You will notice he does not sign any messages with his name on here.  And good luck getting any proof. 

Amir:
Prove that you cashed out the refund from Yifu.  Post the transaction details including the wallet addresses (Terrahash's wallet to the Exchange's wallet), the receipt for converting BTC to  fiat currency (USD), and the wire transfer details showing the money was sent to Terrahash's account.  Post Terrahash's bank statement that shows the cash from the BTC that Yifu sent you.  Prove what your saying is true.

These pearls are artificial.   Again get a lawyer if you lost money.  Assuming you lost more then what a lawyer is going to take on consult. 

And this you choose to respond to! What a loser. Good to know AMIR KHAN is not sleeping in the office. Something tells me, you'll think that's a luxury penthouse suite in the near future.

Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.


[/quote]

You know LLC stands for Limited Liability Company right, it is a form of incorperation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company
[/quote]

No .... i don't think he does.  Also i don't think he realizes what a legal entity is, and how assuming TH did it all right they TH is separated from owners assets.  And "for profit" has no bearing on when you try to sue them.

If you lost money... get a lawyer.  

Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.


[/quote]

You know LLC stands for Limited Liability Company right, it is a form of incorperation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company
[/quote]

Ya fuckin' think?

Jesus Christ on a raft!

If Terrahash were set up as an LLC, the business entity would read, "Terrahash, LLC", NOT "Terrahash, Inc".

Crikey, I have set up over 250 corporations for people and do in point of fact have the vaguest idea what I'm talking about.

My continued presence in this thread constitutes the casting of pearls before swine, not to mention engaging in arguments with people who only want to argue.

My $.02.

.

To those of you who invested with Terrahash, Good Night and Good Luck!

It's not about hiding assets but BTC being used.  Find us a court case where BTC was recovered from a closed business.  Assuming TH really does close being a LLC.
[/quote]

Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.


[/quote]

You know LLC stands for Limited Liability Company right, it is a form of incorperation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

It's not about hiding assets but BTC being used.  Find us a court case where BTC was recovered from a closed business.  Assuming TH really does close being a LLC.
[/quote]

Oops!

Terrahash is NOT an LLC!

It is incorporated in California; the Land of Fruits and Nuts as a FOR PROFIT corporation!

"TERRAHASH, INC.
Entity Number:   C3566232
Date Filed:   05/14/2013
Status:   ACTIVE
Jurisdiction:   CALIFORNIA
Entity Address:   366 S MARY AVE
Entity City, State, Zip:   SUNNYVALE CA 94086
Agent for Service of Process:   CORPNET, INCORPORATED
Agent Address:   340 N WESTLAKE BLVD STE 210
Agent City, State, Zip:   WESTLAKE VILLAGE CA 91362"

You may go here to check the veracity of my information:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/

Absent intentional fraud, if the corporation bankrupts out, the principals will walk away unscathed.

Have a nice day and stop trying to cut of the head of the Messenger please.

My $.02.

They could get those Bitcoins back if they want. Or track and see where they went.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/26/bitcoins-seized-silk-road-raid

It's not about hiding assets but BTC being used.  Find us a court case where BTC was recovered from a closed business.  Assuming TH really does close being a LLC.

Nope.

Read my post again.

No one hid any assets at all.  The transactions were open and no effort was made to conceal them.  The proceeds were even put towards the debts by the debtor but that made no difference to the Trustee who reclaimed the cars and dumped them into an auction as the Trustee found that the transactions had been completed in anticipation of bankruptcy.

Dealing with the bankruptcy court Trustee is a whole new world and is a game played by the Trustee's rules, some of which are made up as the Trustee goes along.

Good luck!

My $.02.

That is exactly what I am saying.

The powers of the Court Trustee are, to use a trite phrase, "broad and sweeping".:

http://www.muchshelist.com/knowledge-center/article/powers-and-duties-of-a-chapter-7-bankruptcy-trustee

From the citation:

"Duties of the Trustee

The overarching duty of the trustee is to collect and liquidate the property of the estate and to distribute the proceeds to creditors. The trustee's specific statutory duties, as set forth in Section 704 of the United States Bankruptcy Code, include the following:

    To collect and reduce to money the property of the estate and close the estate as expeditiously as compatible with the best interests of the parties in interest;
    To be accountable for all property received;
    To ensure that the debtor performs his or her intention as to retaining or surrendering property of the estate that secures consumer debt;
    To investigate the financial affairs of the debtor;
    If a purpose would be served, to examine proofs of claims and object to any that are improper;
    If advisable, to oppose the discharge of the debtor;
    Unless the court orders otherwise, to furnish information concerning the estate and the estate's administration as requested by a party in interest;
    If the debtor's business is authorized to continue operating, to file with the court appropriate reports and summaries, including a statement of receipts and disbursements; and
    To file a final account of the administration of the estate with the United States Trustee and the court.

Powers of the Trustee

The trustee in a Chapter 7 liquidation case is authorized to employ accountants, attorneys, appraisers, auctioneers and other professionals to assist in carrying out his or her duties. Additionally, the trustee may use, sell or lease property of the bankruptcy estate, subject to a notice requirement. However, there is no notice required for a trustee to enter into transactions in the ordinary course of business if he or she is authorized to operate the debtor's business. The trustee is also authorized to obtain unsecured or secured credit in connection with the operation of a business and assume or reject executory contracts or unexpired leases of the debtor.

A trustee is vested with significant powers to aid in carrying out his or her fiduciary obligations to the bankruptcy estate. Among them is the ability to move to dismiss a bankruptcy case for cause, including unreasonable delay by the debtor that is prejudicial to creditors; non-payment of any fees or charges required under certain provisions of the Bankruptcy Code; and failure of the debtor to file certain information required under the Bankruptcy Code. The trustee may prosecute an objection to a discharge granted to an individual debtor. He or she may also object to proofs of claim filed by creditors in a bankruptcy case. The disallowance of a proof of claim or a reduction in its allowed amount has a significant impact on what creditors ultimately receive when the trustee distributes the funds on hand in a bankruptcy estate.

The most significant of the trustee's powers are generally referred to as avoidance powers, and they are often the subject of litigation in the Bankruptcy Court. Known as the "strong arm clause," Section 544(a) of the Bankruptcy Code gives the trustee the rights and powers of a judicial lien creditor or a purchaser of real estate, whether or not there is an actual judicial lien creditor or purchaser who may be able to exercise the same rights. Section 544(b) allows the trustee to bring actions that an unsecured creditor could bring (including state law fraudulent conveyance actions), while Section 545 permits the trustee to avoid the fixing of certain statutory liens. Section 547-Preferences authorizes a trustee to avoid certain transfers of property, including payments made by the debtor to creditors, within 90 days prior to the commencement of a bankruptcy case (subject to certain conditions). Section 548 authorizes a trustee to avoid fraudulent transfers or obligations made with actual intent to hinder, delay or defraud a past or future creditor. Transfers of property made by a debtor for less than a reasonably equivalent consideration are also vulnerable if the debtor was or thereby became insolvent, was engaged in business with an unreasonably small amount of capital or intentionally incurred debts that would be beyond the debtor's ability to repay. Finally, Section 549 authorizes the trustee to avoid transfers of property of the bankruptcy estate that occur after a bankruptcy case has commenced.

The Upshot for Creditors

The trustee's ability to recover property or funds by exercising these avoidance powers can be extremely lucrative and provides a significant benefit to the creditors of a bankruptcy estate. Therefore, you should pay careful attention to any communication from a bankruptcy trustee that references avoidance powers and consult with legal counsel about how to respond. Failure to do so could result in a creditor being subjected to litigation."

The transactions originated in the Terrahash accounts, essentially brokered by Paypal.

The Court Trustee can pretty much do anything he/she wants to do, including getting monies back even though those monies were paid out through a third party.

Fighting a reversal by the trustee, at least in these parts, is going to require a retainer in the area of USD $5K to any attorney worth his/her salt, which takes most of the fun out of disputing the claim as in the event that you are trying to get USD $5K back, even if you win, you lose.

Duck and cover boys and girls because the defecation is going to hit the air handler!

My $.02.

Also we are not talking about a bankruptcy as they are CLOSING their business.  That is from them.... and i believe TH with a grain of salt so its hard to say.  But basically paypal will go after them, credit cards, and banks.   The others will be ones with big losses that hire lawyers.  They will eventually settle on so much per dollar between them all. 

Chances are they have enough to pay off most creditors and can ride out salary till all that is left is BTC.  Then close down company legally, and ride off into the sunset.

This example is unrelated to our situation. This is an example of someone hiding assets before filing Chapter 7. Has nothing to do with us the customer. The creditors ended up with the money in this case anyway. And guess who the creditors are in our case? Paypal and the Credit Card companies. They will be the first to get back their money and we are already paid by them.

I don't think there is precedent to show.  I will believe BTC refunds when i see it.  Good luck on finding lawyer who will work on chance of BTC refund from TH.

So your saying that those of us that received valid refunds via paypal are in jeopardy of having it clawed back?
I find this hard to believe, please supply precedent.