Topic: Official Thread: AMT - page 81. (Read 678353 times)

This is EXACTLY what you should have been doing all along. Keep it coming. Please!

AMT

more like, give or take a few WEEKS.  7 weeks on a 3-4 week promised delivery, is not a few days.  

i am pretty forgiving, and VERY understanding, IF i am being told the truth about a situation that causes production delays.

what i am not forgiving and understanding about, is being lied to.  When my boss asks me what happened with one of the servers i manage, I tell him the truth, whether i fucked it up or not.  After years of working under the same management, they know they can come to me and get the straight, honest answer, no matter what it is.  This honest approach lets me sleep at night, and has helped to keep me employed through tough times, where others around me have been laid off.  

Own your mistakes, and quit backtracking and trying to cover it up.

The MPP is lie.  the mine for 6 months, and then try to get upgrades per the MPP is a lie to get out of having to live up to the mistaken estimates on your production abilities, that will now cost you a ton of money to fulfill.    By my estimate and YOUR MPP, you would have to ship twice the hardware to most of your customers.  That would most likely put you out of business.  The right thing to do would be to take down the MPP, and quit using it as a selling point.  It's false advertising.  I asked about it twice, BEFORE my rig shipped, and was ignored.

Your claims of testing your rigs before shipping is shaky as hell.  If tested, how did mine get to me with 1 of 2 boards that doesnt hash(at least until i disassembled the unit and put it back together correctly), and one of those boards having a bad chip?  How can you put all those parts into the little case, and not notice how much hotter it runs inside the case than out?  I'm not talking about a little bit warmer, but way too hot to let it keep running like that.

On the good side, you did me right with the quick turn around on the blown board.  Thank you.  That's how a business should handle those situations.

I kept fairly quiet, as one of your customers, until i got my rig and got it working correctly.  I saw the way the forum was going after i made my purchase and didnt want to cause any further delays in my order, so I was very polite.  

I know you guys are in way over your heads, but that's no reason to serve a load of bullshit at your customers and then tell them it's ice cream.  Tell them what's really going on with delays.  Live up to the MPP or take it down.  

As a former customer, I can give a thumbs up on very aspects of the company.  Yes, the rig hashes above rated spec, even with the bad chip it does 85GH or so.  Jim was great on the phone, helping me get up and running(but, the same could have been accomplished with a half page setup guide, which would save Jim a ton of valuable time, by not having to take a support call for every miner shipped).  The turn around on the RMA was very quick.   That's all the good, and it's not enough to make up for all of the bad.  I really wish i had acted up before my purchase and been banned before i made my purchase.

I probably would have left my original review as my only comments, but i can't stand all of the lies i see perpetuated on this forum.  Sorry for repeating my previous posts, but it needs to be said, and anyone thinking about making a purchase needs to know what they are about to get into, for better or for worse. 

As i was nearing the end of this post, you posted the transperency deal about your delays.  That's more like it.  These guys are spending a ton of cash, and should know why their stuff isnt showing up as promised.  Keep that up, and people will eventually look past your early growing pains.

Thanks


Stan Calloway
Order #928

Now see? Doesn't that feel better getting that out?

As an industrial systems builder for nearly 40-years I can say, Been there - done that, yes it's Hell. With chips/boards so far off course, blind faith in all the rest being as it should be rarely works but ya do what ya gotta do.

I have one pert-near as good. Last year we get an order to upgrade 6 laser driller systems in Taiwan to our latest/greatest versions that literally have 3x the throughput, each upgrade coming in just over 300k$. Got in the PC's (with built-in Firewire to talk to everything else) and all the other hardware. got it all together, ran into a few issues & solved them. Ran each and every system 24x7 for 1 week. Perfect.

Got to Taiwan and physically installed the 1st upgrade the PC would not talk to the rest of the system. Firewire errors all over the place... WTF? Spent 2 days talking across the planet with folks trying to find out what the hell could have changed. Eventually just took the old FW plug-in card from the old PC, disabled the onboard one and all was well. Every system did that. 6 out of 6. Still no idea why other than the fact that Firewire can be a bitch to work with and if a combo of hardware works - get a lot of them and stick with it.

Nice bit is we just got an order from them for 9 more upgrades for this year

No doubt check the chips... If that is the package temp the internal die is going to substantial higher than that. Not a good thing to do. Is that temp sensed on the die itself or the chip package/bga pad area?. If it's the die, pushing things but not *too* badly if off the die... yikes.

Transparency...

four weeks ago we hired a design team to help us design a customized cage for the modules. We could have always opted to go with the swiss case and produce but even they have been modifying that as well.

The design team ran us up quite a lot in a week or so and we ordered (quick turn from rapid sheet metal in NH) 400+ cages.

The designers did not leave holes in the cages for airflow to pass over the top of the boards (chips/chipsinks) but more over just holes which were the exact size of the heatsink fins.

So with the chip's data sheet specifying airflow/thermal dissipation 30% on top and 70% on the bottom this would work and chips would over heat. So we're stuck with 400+ sheet metal cages that dont work - we got quotes on cutting out the pannels of the cages, drilling holes etc..  So what's the quick fix to fab 400 sheet metal cages.. New heatsinks.

We ordered new heatsinks with more fins and 3mm fin height difference allowing us to utilize that gap for chipsink thermal flow.  New sinks took 4 days to come in, cut to length extrusion, and 2-3 days to CNC from a nice guy with great pricing who has become the end of the day bitch station of all the things that went wrong during the course of the day. So the next week became a early morning and late evening pickup of heatsinks.

designers back in the lab charging us to fix the mess they made and we told them this time - make it like a fence. So they finished after a few days and sent the designs back to Rapid - who turned it around in a week (not very rapid) and sent the first 100 units over on tuesday and what did we find out.. the designers did not add the 2nd and 4th screw holes on the back side of the cage..

Called rapid they said send it back - quoted a week or two in turn around.. called larger shops they weren't available didn't have any time for quick turn runs...etc You're thinking so what .... it's only 4 screw holes you can drill them yourself, not quite. The holes need to be exact to the mm because if they are off by .2mm than your backplane wont fit in the right way and eventually lead to more problems.

CM offered up a quote of $10 per cage to have a few guys they know come in and do it. Also referred us to another character that came back rather too quickly with quotes in thousands. Trying to do several ourselves, some came close but nothing professional and came out with correct holes spacing but bent sides etc... just a world of crap.

In the end the nightly complaining at the CNC shop (heatsink pickup round 6) we mentioned it to our cnc guy and he was like ... "we can do that, $2 a cage done in 48hrs."  

The CNC was already set to drill and tap the holes on the sinks which was the spacing it needed to be on the cage, so he was able to make a sheet metal template for manual drilling and had one of the shop minions do the drilling.

Moral of the story - ask everyone, call around and get quotes, but ultimately the guy that runs that CNC is gonna know what to do and how to handle shit situations.

This is one of several factors that has attributed to our delayed status.

Transparency...

Assuming you are running say over 5kw would be a good use of the waste heat and temps should be about right at least for hot water.

I have noticed that with my 4 Ant's the furnace stays off longer. Now to try and figure out how the electric & gas offset each other...

i will have to have a look for that get some ideas. preferably want enough h.w to run house heating and water system and so much would pay for me to do alot more than i can now without working...one day maybe.

Ah for the good ol'days of Dow Freon(r) thermal xfr fluids... Some of the old Cray's had beautiful fountains as part of the cooling loop...

Rack mount ! Rack mount sis boom bah! Rack mount Rack mount rah rah rah!
Yes please...

What happened to this promise?


Or this one? That customer still hasn't received his order.


Or this one on feb 1, that said you were building and shipping miners daily.

the math on that was about 20 a day, from feb 1 till now you would have made somewhere around 800. I somehow doubt that.

Opieum, guess what, I can post about whatever I want. It doesn't matter at all that I didn't order, and people who used to make the same comments are all now in the group of people who just wish they had never ordered. I get PMs from people all the time discussing this clusterfuck. You say trolling, I say helping. I'm just asking questions, and they never seem to get answered.

i as soon as my miners recieved that is will be looking at possibly trying to oil cool the unit either dump the lot in a fishtank of oil or building a thermal transfer unit and rad for the 200m fan with a push pul configuration as i see temps are really an issue if sucessful i will share with the community the results. plus maybe sell u guys some or give details how to make

I've love to see the rack case fully populated, I've not seen everything in one yet, thus my comments on tower, I'd thought you'd never ask actually...I just hope the cooling is equal to or exceeds the tower :-)

AMT_Miners, my order is #899. Can you give me an estimate as to when they would be ready to go? I would be willing to come pick them up in person if it helps. I sent an email to Josh earlier as well

What sounds fishy, the actual TRO as ordered in the case of dz miner coop against hashfast? This is all happening right here on bitcointalk, pretty easy to verify. You worry far too much about being a victim and what people say about you, vs actually telling the truth and shipping products. You never answered me, how can you have shipped orders to the 1200s when there are people posting here every day with lower numbers than that asking where the miners are?

We bought you (and everyone else who wants one) rackmount cases (RPC-450B 4U Rackmount Case) Naran, do you want the desktop cases instead?

+1

And when they could have refunded easier when the rate was higher now people will get their coins back when the rate is lower?

Either way, it was stupid. Now preventing us from accessing our bank accounts that's a bit smarter right. But via BTC sounds like a setup to not pay BTC buyers back, which is less troublesome than dealing with clients which paid in USD.

Sounds fishy.. was there any real court ordered documented verification of this other than an press article?

Perfect, I can use the top 200mm for exhausting and connecting ducting and funneling, i.e. from cold intake surroundings, thanks for following some of my earlier advice...

I've worked on unix/linux for 20 years, I think I can manage to restart cgminer, thanks for steps though anyway...sometimes cgminer bombs out, sometimes it just hangs..but if you really want to be smart, you'd stick in an auto-restart if conditions allow. Some buzzer or alerting for fan failures wouldn't go amiss either.

if you do have s/w fixes or workarounds are you going to place those in client/customer area for d/l and updating the s/w on the pi?

LMAO yea thats the thing. I am going there anyway. I am one of the pick up customers that was my choice. Honestly I know their side of it because I have had to run a business myself (I've run a few in fact). I sold them a long time ago, but I get the growing pains of raising the capital needed. And while I didn't go through their specific pains here, there were pains to be felt. Overdemanding clients who expected one button miracles and jobs that normally took 3 months for a full firm to be done in 3 days. I'm not saying there are people here who are like that (there very well could be and there seems like there are). It is the bane of every business existence. I worked customer service as well early in my carreer. So yea I totally get the pains they are dealing with keenly as I worked for a large company whose product sucked at the time (Hint:They made Windows ME which I had to support)

AMT does have a point tho coming at you asking if you have an order with them. I am not "sucking up" I am seeing what it is. The whole point is they are trying to run a business and make it work. Problem is you got people who got no stake in this coming in and chiming in like they have some say. Bottom line if you like to shop at Walmart shop at Walmart don't trash Target because you like Walmart. There are people here with legitimate gripes. Who want refunds and have been waiting. Those are really the only people who deserve answers and likely will get them through proper channels. At least from some confirmation from Phin we know they are struggling with help. It does happen in any startup. Well not all but in the beginning its always a thing. I worked for one of the largest companies in its startup days and saw it grow into an enterprise. And believe me that growth was not without alot of pain and sacrifice. These guys could fold up shop after this just on the fact that this business is such a pain....OR keep going and establish themselves as a major player. But you are not part of that as a business partner OR a client. Whatever their issues here now they are in a sink or swim mode. How they come out of this is what will make them either stronger or dead as a company. And being that they are a C corp (as they said earlier), they all got a stake in this so they are going to be busting their ass to make it work.

BUT to avoid the whole sucking up thing I meant what I said earlier in that I am neutral (objective would be better I think) in all this. I gave the advice to those who are going the legal route to basically take it off this forum. Its beyond retarded to go talking legal stuff on a public forum and giving away your strategy (that alone is a huge help for those with legal gripes). That for the most part seems to have stopped. At the same time they are giving up info and so are other people. But noone believes anyone who comes on here with new info. Shit I got called a shill after my first post! It took some time but I think I have proven I am not a plant or something of the sort. Or a fanboy. But I do like to think I am a voice of reason and if the truth is staring me in the face I will deal with it. Its gotten me pretty far in life as a result. I got money in this so its in my best interest to make sure that they succeed right now. Seeing them go out of business before I have gotten my product would suck. But honestly? it would be nice to see an American company actually succeed right now because we are getting our asses handed to us by the Chinese in the bitcoin hardware market. It could well play out like that anyway, but it would be nice to see it say MADE IN USA vs made in china.

Bottom line you got nothing in this so yea in effect you are just trolling. Those who got something in this, you got a reason to complain. But complain right if you are going to complain. There is a way to do it without being an ass about it. NOONE likes to be treated like crap. Now if they are on the offensive consider whats happened to lead to that. This thread is over 200 pages of mostly people ragging on AMT. Noone wants to wade in that. And yet here they are trying to answer some questions and at least put a stop to some of the crap. Getting Phin out to the office clearly was an effort to help slow things down here. Again people doubted and called him a sellout. And yet he did BUY his miner and is selling it. Thats his prerogative since its his money he paid with. There are people whose pain I get. I feel for them I am dealing with the BFL debacle which is very similar to what they are dealing with. Seems like they are close to getting miners out. So lets see where this goes. They even asked for help to get the process moving. Again if they are serious they will take up the offers they got on the table.

The points made about them being more transparent and communicating tho are also valid. But looks like they are turning the corner on that and now are more communicative.

6-sigma would apply to the chip/board makers, possibly to the CM's as well but is pretty useless for a AMT's small(ish) operation. I take it AMT is pretty much physical assembly of core parts into systems. Going through ISO-9000 on the other hand... Great for putting the business practices in order!