Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 132. (Read 723861 times)

Yes.  The original email that was on the account.  

Do you still have access to your email?

Thanks.  Will you contact me through email.  Not sure if you can as the person has changed my email on my account to something else. 

Yes, we have locked your account so that no withdrawals can be made. As soon as we have finished investigating what happened, we will send you a response.

Can you please lock my account so no further coins can be withdrawn. 

Verification is required in order to use any bank services or to withdraw USD in any form. Other than that, happy trading, and swapping.

We are looking into this, and investigating the activity on your account.

Support please respond to my urgent matter of my account being hacked. 

What's wrong with a boring fund that makes 100% a year?  I would be quite content with boredom like that.

Convert my 'essay' to a fish story?  Let's try this - A SWF would own every dock, pier, boat, net, rod as well as the ocean.  If you want to fish the SWF is the only game in town.  When you want to fish, not only do you have to rent the equipment from the SWF, you have to put the full value of the equipment down as a deposit and pay any expenses up front and out of pocket.  You might capsize and die but the SWF is sitting on the safely on shore with no way to lose.  If you survive, the SWF will let you keep any fish you catch.

How's that?

This is kind of bad.  Support still hasn't replied on such an urgent matter. 

Support please respond to my emails. 

Well that's pretty much the only reason. It seemed like a perfect fit to the equation we're trying to find. An incentive to raise volatility and, in turn, trading volume.

The way you're asking: Why wouldn't we want to use it?


Traders make the biggest gains (or losses) when volatility is way up in the sky. I don't see a reason why lenders should be left behind when "surf's up". Sure, they may convert their swap-USD into exchange-BTC and "ride that wave" along the traders, but that only increases your risk. I imagine the swap-market as being the "safe harbor" on the platform... Also, the lent-out money does "work more" during these times of high volatility and like in the real world: the more fish you get out of the sea the more you can sell. Damn, I start to think we're modern day's early fishermen, every damn metaphor fits so perfectly

The current swap-(side-)market is a bit too stressfull in my opinion, constantly re-shuffling, observing and adjusting rates and whatnot. A fixed-rate on the other hand would be as boring as your dusty old savings-account, don't you think? It lacks the feedback-loop, the incentive to inject volatility in the market, hell it could even infect the BTC-market with it's boringness (because feedback-loop), BTC might get glued to 400 like, for years... not that that would be too bad for the stability-fans but come on, a 5.5 year old should move, damned! Even if it's a currency.

A volatility-based swap rate just seems to be something not too boring and not too stressfull, the sweet spot in between.

For the rest of your "essay" I'm not sure I did follow through entirely but if I understand correctly you're saying a variable rate would be pretty bad in quickly falling markets, correct? If so, I don't see exactly why that would be the case, the swap-load factor would pull the rates back to a minimum even if the base swap rate goes way up high so... try again explaining it from a fisherman's perspective, that should do today

Hello

I have an account on BitFinex but I am not verified yet (waiting for a "fresh" utility bill)

I have a few questions

1.Can I transfer and sell  BTC on bitfinex and then use the USD to offer (USD) Swaps?  (WITHOUT BEING VERIFIED)
    (I am planning to get verified but I want to be sure I can trade in the meantime)


2.On the verification page it says
   Bank Statement: clearly highlighting your name as the account holder (your first deposit to Bitfinex must come from this account).

   What if I deposit BTC and then withdraw it as USD (after verification of course) , does my first withdrawal from Bitfinex must go to this account?




 

Interesting.  What is your reasoning for using market volatility as an indicator other than it can be used as a way to adjust the rate?  A more fundamental question would be: why does the rate need to be adjusted?

A swap fund (SWF) would be an odd animal.  If we ignore risk, it has some very odd features.  It has no competition, it's scarcity can be artificially controlled (placing a cap on the fund), it is never consumed, and it has a captive audience.  The only thing I can think of to compare it to is the diamond market as controlled by De Beers and even that falls apart if you look at it closely.  It has does have some parallels to the Fed.

It only exists to serve margin trading and it is constructed in such a way that traders are exposed to almost, if not all, the risk.  The only thing that really gives it any value is the trader's (for lack of a better word) greed.  In the real world, if a trader's position goes south fast enough the SWF would suffer a loss, but Bitfinex's implementation has rigged the deck.  If a flash crash happens, they slow the trading down so that the SWF has a chance to pull it's money out at the expense of the traders.

Given the massive advantage that a SWF has over it's 'customers', does the SWF need to twist the knife even more by varying the rate?  Maybe the institutional advantage is reason a SWF shouldn't be created.

I suddenly get "Access denied" to bitfinex.
Error code 16.

It used to work until now..

Anyway to bypass this blocking?

I had that in mind and yes, it would be an obvious flaw if it weren't for the KYC-rules that BFX has to observe by law which means any new account has to be verified by ID before one can do anything meaningful with it so duplicate accounts should be really easy to spot. Sure, some guy with multiple IDs, double nationality or several adresses might be able to play the system a tiny little bit... but what are the odds and what dent would that really make?

Now we might as well leave that multiplier out of the game entirely as with a base swap rate based on volatility it doesn't make too much sense anymore. Also: the simpler, the better. That richness-multiplier was more of a bugfix against "riches getting richer" to my initial idea where the base swap rate was some fixed value. Nevertheless, it would still make the swap market a bit more attractive to smaller investors. Nobody said it had to be such a giant range. It could as well be a 1x multiplier for whales and 1.1 for plankton, hence my mention of Excel.

Another brainfart: we could make that multiplier depend on the duration the swap has been active, some kind of steadiness-bonus. The longer your swap-balance hasn't reached 0 the higher your multiplier... Although that could take the volatility out of the markets lowering swap rates in the process which seems like a self-destroying feedback loop not much unlike the current FRR. Also, the daily earnings would already act as some sort of interest compounding, a rising multiplier for steadiness would give us compounded compounding which doesn't sound right at all... Oh well, just a brainfart, doesn't seem to work out but throwing it out here anyways now that I typed it.

I think this is a big obvious flaw in your plan - you're relying on a 1:1 mapping between people and accounts to identify "whales". If the rewards from the swap market were 25x higher for small holders as they are for large holders, I would bet my last dollar that every 'whale' on the platform would immediately seek to open dozens of separate accounts to split up their balance and get the beneficial rate.

Besides that... what exactly was the ideological justification here? Seems rampantly unfair to treat one guy's invested dollars differently when they all serve the exact same purpose.

That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the explanation

Now I've explained that several times already but it would be your A: the rate would be variable, it would rise if there were less funds available on the swap market/fund and vice-versa. It's what the "swap-load" in prior posts is all about, it's a 24h (maybe less) averaged factor between available and used swaps which, on payout, would be multiplied with each individual user's "swap-weight" (the plankton must be able to grow vs. whales shouldn't be able to play the market I mentioned earlier) multiplied with a 24h (again, maybe less) averaged base value.

That base value would be what you earn on swap deposits when the "swap-load" is exactly 100% and I guess you're asking where that value should be coming from. Well that's the tricky part indeed.

Now one idea was to simply let BFX decide (every now and then) what kind of gains they'd like to make available on their platform but yeah, a magic number for this value, no good.

Another idea was to turn that value into a market of it's own but that train didn't quite leave the station as I have no idea what one would trade that BaseSwapRate against. Dollars? Withdrawal speed? Font size? Pink elephants? Dead end?

So thinking this a bit different: What if we were to take the absolute value of all of BFX's markets volatility as the base swap rate? That way trading activity i.e. volume is the only way to push swap-rates up which would add yet another feedback loop to the system.

Short example ignoring alt markets for simplicity: yesterday at 2AM BTC was at 400$, today at 2AM it's at 404$ which gives a 24h volatility of 1%. Say the swap load is 50% the daily earning on everyone's swap deposit would be 1% * 50% = 0.5% * each individual user's swap-weight (which would scale linearly from some bigger number like 3 or 5 for the tinyest deposit and some fraction like 0.2 for the biggest whale on the swap market - we'd need some magic values here for sure).

Now imagine this going from 266 to what was it, 90? (Oh the Flashback... 2h GoxLag anyone? ) Thad would give us a SwapBaseRate of 65% or something but, as self-regulating as this would be, margin calls would've kicked the SwapLoad back to almost nothing limiting losses for traders and lenders alike.

I think this boils down to putting some real data which only BFX has into a spreadsheet and experiment around. And just in case: We have a static 3.3:1 leverage, a margin reqirement of exactly 15% and trade minima of 0.01 and 0.1 so don't even think of criticizing the remaining magic numbers, mkay? jk

One other thing I forgot, you could have a distinct targeted based funds such as Bitcoin, Lightcoin, Darkcoin, etc.