That reddit post says that
1) you don't have the mandatory 1h rate when you close used funds
2) you can post unlimited offers, as long as each offer is lower than your swappable balance
This combination makes it possible to create huge walls and eat up all competition, with almost no costs.
Is this correct?
If yes, I vote to change both of these points.
It will harm a few honest traders, I guess.
But as it seems to already be used for illicit manipulation..
edit:
1) is already fixed, as Raphael posted in that reddit thread.
Talk about fast reaction and close contact to the community!
Ente
Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 181. (Read 723861 times)
June 23, 2014, 02:46:19 AM
June 23, 2014, 02:40:24 AM
Something should be done about this. Notably the $10 million USD swap bid wall (at the flash return rate or above), if fake, should not be allowed to exist.
Only offers backed by funds are possible on bitfinex.
So someone has several mils in his account, and has some fun.
I don't see anything bitfinex should, or could, do. What's the problem?
I though we were the crowd against regulation, and pro free market? :-)
He probably meant demand, and you don't really need millions in your account to post an offer for millions. But that guy risks paying 1 hour of intrest if taken.
June 23, 2014, 02:38:11 AM
Something should be done about this. Notably the $10 million USD swap bid wall (at the flash return rate or above), if fake, should not be allowed to exist.
Only offers backed by funds are possible on bitfinex.
So someone has several mils in his account, and has some fun.
I don't see anything bitfinex should, or could, do. What's the problem?
I though we were the crowd against regulation, and pro free market? :-)
This is indeed ridiculous. Would appreciate a comment from the site owners.
They are seen a bit too rare for my taste. We (have to) trust them a lot.
It's good to see the community pointing these things out.
They are seen a bit too rare for my taste. We (have to) trust them a lot.
It's good to see the community pointing these things out.
Uh, I like bitfinex for their transparency and close contact with the community.
You probably never experienced the worse example' companies, right? :-P
Ente
June 23, 2014, 01:35:17 AM
We should always be aware that Bitfinex is not the only site for margin trading, there is also icbit.se, although their futures-based system takes some effort to understand. It is always worth it to compare the swap rate at Bitfinex with the contango at icbit. Right now their contango is equivalent to 0.13 %/day. You need to factor in that icbit has low volume and no stop-loss mechanism, you risk to get caught in an unfavourable position. On the other hand, the price spikes are smaller (and on purpose limited within a trading period), so they do not have the problem of sudden spikes that can trigger stop-losses in a way you regret later.
I think a bit more competition between the two sites would benefit us all.
I think a bit more competition between the two sites would benefit us all.
June 22, 2014, 11:17:12 PM
This is indeed ridiculous. Would appreciate a comment from the site owners.
They are seen a bit too rare for my taste. We (have to) trust them a lot.
It's good to see the community pointing these things out.
They are seen a bit too rare for my taste. We (have to) trust them a lot.
It's good to see the community pointing these things out.
June 22, 2014, 08:22:03 PM
Something should be done about this. Notably the $10 million USD swap bid wall (at the flash return rate or above), if fake, should not be allowed to exist.
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/28twpj/manipulating_bfx_swaps_for_fun_and_profit_a_howto/
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/28twpj/manipulating_bfx_swaps_for_fun_and_profit_a_howto/
June 22, 2014, 03:12:09 PM
The premium is often very little. Right now $1-$2 over bitstamp.
June 22, 2014, 02:28:03 PM
Did somebody come up with a good explanation for why BTCUSD is always higher on Bitfinex?
Goxing, security concerns etc.?
I love that you can trade BTCUSD on margin without verification other other crap, just cash out in Bitcoin afterwards. But security is important too...
Goxing, security concerns etc.?
I love that you can trade BTCUSD on margin without verification other other crap, just cash out in Bitcoin afterwards. But security is important too...
Bitfinex seemingly has more efficient arbitrage ties with China. This is why its price tracks Chinese BTC price more closely than Bitstamp and BTC-e.
June 22, 2014, 02:26:35 PM
I really think bitfinex could also start to increase the possible leverage (at least for the more liquid BTC/USD market).
This would really encourage trading volume and also have benefits for the lenders (very likely higher interest rates).
This would really encourage trading volume and also have benefits for the lenders (very likely higher interest rates).
I think the risks outweight the benefits.
The BTCUSD market will have dramatic swings, and I expect that to happen especially in the next two months.
Flashcrashes would come. Avalanches would come.
And with some of the newer users, this would end bad.
And then there's no full insurance for the funds, as icing on the cake.
I really hope the margin leverage won't be risen.
Heck, I would rather suggest to lower it to 1x "leverage" as default, and enable higher leverage for users who know what they do. With them being able to answer a simple test or something.
Ente
June 22, 2014, 01:13:32 PM
Did somebody come up with a good explanation for why BTCUSD is always higher on Bitfinex?
Goxing, security concerns etc.?
I love that you can trade BTCUSD on margin without verification other other crap, just cash out in Bitcoin afterwards. But security is important too...
Goxing, security concerns etc.?
I love that you can trade BTCUSD on margin without verification other other crap, just cash out in Bitcoin afterwards. But security is important too...
June 22, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
I think US bulls can use BTC swap to reduce the capital gains tax rate. If you have capital gains on a BTC long position, however you want to cash out and have held for under six months - then you are subject to the higher short term capital gains tax rate.
However, if you hold your BTC position and protect yourself from losses by creating a new BTC short position - and continue to do this for over six months - then you pay the long term tax rate (which can be 10-15% lower - and in some tax brackets: 0).
Note: I think this is true. I haven't actually done it, nor should this be considered professional tax advice. Just something I saw someone else explain recently.
However, if you hold your BTC position and protect yourself from losses by creating a new BTC short position - and continue to do this for over six months - then you pay the long term tax rate (which can be 10-15% lower - and in some tax brackets: 0).
Note: I think this is true. I haven't actually done it, nor should this be considered professional tax advice. Just something I saw someone else explain recently.
June 22, 2014, 11:19:22 AM
okcoin start P2P lending system like bitfinex.
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
this is partly wrong.
Okcoin offers up to 1:3 leverage.
I really think bitfinex could also start to increase the possible leverage (at least for the more liquid BTC/USD market).
This would really encourage trading volume and also have benefits for the lenders (very likely higher interest rates).
June 22, 2014, 09:38:24 AM
okcoin start P2P lending system like bitfinex.
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
Considering the fiat restrictions in China I'd wager that the CNY rates will go higher and BTC rates will go lower similar to BFX but possibly even more pronounced.
June 22, 2014, 09:28:49 AM
okcoin start P2P lending system like bitfinex.
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
now borrow(demand) order is 0.1-0.01%/day, total about $0.29million.
reserve(demand) order is 0.14-0.06%/day, total about $0.87million.
lend(offer) order is 0.1-0.23%/day, total about $3million.
lender/borrower/reserver can take max 360days.
leverrage rate is 1:1-2(due to your account level)
June 22, 2014, 05:36:26 AM
Just realized bitfinex has added DRK.... wow.
June 20, 2014, 05:42:57 PM
Out of curiosity, why did I see EUR, HKD and GBP (iirc) on the "Market statistics" page like half a day ago and why is that all gone again by now? Adding some new pairs soon I suppose?
If so, good. I'd love to get EUR out directly from BFX instead of donating exchange fees to my bank every effin' time.
If so, good. I'd love to get EUR out directly from BFX instead of donating exchange fees to my bank every effin' time.
June 20, 2014, 02:08:22 PM
Do you see what's happening to darkcoin right now?
Any arguments about why you want to pull out ? You sound so dramatic ...
I'm mainly operating as a swap provider on BFX and if I cannot choose to whom I lend money for trading I feel not safe in case of a large DRK crash. Alts have the potential to crash very hard which makes providing money for long positions dangerous.
Look at this chart. https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_30.html Darkcoin has lost 50 % of it's value in less than three days. On top of the huge volatility liquidity will likely be low (such a ltc liquidity on bfx which is....rough). BFX cannot guarantee a force liquidation under these cirumstances which is an incalculatable risk to me. Offering money for 0.2 % percent is not worth it if your funds can lose 10 % because of a DRK crash.
See my other post as well:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7039176
If DRK is added as a pure exchange coin I might consider staying but everything points to it added as a regular margin coin. Unacceptable for me.
Wise decision of BFX not to include Darkcoin into Margin Trading.
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/27158u/bitfinex_is_going_to_list_drkbtc_and_drkusd_very/
I'm getting ready to pull out,. If DRK gets enabled for margin trading I'm done.
I'm getting ready to pull out,. If DRK gets enabled for margin trading I'm done.
Any arguments about why you want to pull out ? You sound so dramatic ...
Look at this chart. https://coinmarketcap.com/drk_30.html Darkcoin has lost 50 % of it's value in less than three days. On top of the huge volatility liquidity will likely be low (such a ltc liquidity on bfx which is....rough). BFX cannot guarantee a force liquidation under these cirumstances which is an incalculatable risk to me. Offering money for 0.2 % percent is not worth it if your funds can lose 10 % because of a DRK crash.
See my other post as well:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7039176
If DRK is added as a pure exchange coin I might consider staying but everything points to it added as a regular margin coin. Unacceptable for me.
Wise decision of BFX not to include Darkcoin into Margin Trading.
June 20, 2014, 01:47:29 PM
Does anyone else feel like catching spikes with high interest rate is a lame idea? It takes hours to catch them, but borrowers return the money after a hour or so.
Catching tiny spikes doesn't work. Catching larger spikes that last 24+ hours can work. Ideally the spike needs to be more of a bull market that lasts several days (so the borrower doesn't return the money). Recently I was lending some money out at 0.3% and 0.5% when the FRR was hitting 0.23% and the lowest offers were as high as 0.4-0.8%
June 20, 2014, 01:43:46 PM
There is some very weird stuff going on with USD swaps.
Bfxdata.com has the lowest offer rate spiking to 2.7% at 2:52 today, while the total swaps barely changed (or quite possibly the change wasn't caught in the time interval that bfxdata.com uses).
Also the $5.6 million demand for swaps at 0.18 to 0.2% is very high. Could it be fake? This $5 million wall seems to appear and disappear without ever being filled.
Bfxdata.com has the lowest offer rate spiking to 2.7% at 2:52 today, while the total swaps barely changed (or quite possibly the change wasn't caught in the time interval that bfxdata.com uses).
Also the $5.6 million demand for swaps at 0.18 to 0.2% is very high. Could it be fake? This $5 million wall seems to appear and disappear without ever being filled.
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