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Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 318. (Read 723990 times)

sr. member
Activity: 391
Merit: 250
The unreliability is really annoying.

When I try to set a limit order and the site does not respond then I of course reload the page.

After reloading the price has been set to lowest ask/bid.
I then have to reenter my limit price. Is this new? I hate that I have to enter the price each time.


See a few posts up.
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
Up again. I suggest you close your positions, as BFX now is unreliable (DDOS, not DDOS, hardware errors, no idea), the idea is that it may go down any second now. It was UP DOWN multiple times in the last 2 hours.

I got burned as well for not being able to close a position.

Proceed at your own risk. I'll stay away... There are few things more aggravating than losing due to external factors, outside your control.

sigh, is there another site that offers margin trading?  besides btc.sx, where you ahve no idea what price they are going off of and how the spread works.

btc-e.com with metatrader

on
https://btc-e.com/news/183
it states
"after you open a trade, you will see the round turn commission charged "
that means the commission is due when a order is placed???
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Up again. I suggest you close your positions, as BFX now is unreliable (DDOS, not DDOS, hardware errors, no idea), the idea is that it may go down any second now. It was UP DOWN multiple times in the last 2 hours.

I got burned as well for not being able to close a position.

Proceed at your own risk. I'll stay away... There are few things more aggravating than losing due to external factors, outside your control.

sigh, is there another site that offers margin trading?  besides btc.sx, where you ahve no idea what price they are going off of and how the spread works.
sr. member
Activity: 391
Merit: 250
Up again. I suggest you close your positions, as BFX now is unreliable (DDOS, not DDOS, hardware errors, no idea), the idea is that it may go down any second now. It was UP DOWN multiple times in the last 2 hours.

I got burned as well for not being able to close a position.

Proceed at your own risk. I'll stay away... There are few things more aggravating than losing due to external factors, outside your control.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
What's going on with bitfinex?  I was in the middle of an order and it has gone offline or something.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Haven't traded litecoin here until tonight, has anyone else had issues with low volume and order book manipulation? 

What do you mean by order book manipulation? If by that you mean big market buys and sells, then yes those happen but that's hardly manipulation or a problem. I trade litecoin there every now and then, largely to arbitrage with other exchanges. The volume isn't huge but it's better than it used to be and I've never had any problems trading there.
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
Might be worthwile to make the website function properly on an iPad, for example the cancel button for the orders are below the account overview, and therefore cannot cancel my orders from an iPad.

Greets
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
Haven't traded litecoin here until tonight, has anyone else had issues with low volume and order book manipulation? 
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
oh thats so weak and sad Sad

there is a difference between a trading platform and algorithmic trading. The latter is way more elaborate, challenging and dangerous.

Bitfinex has an API, so you can implement your own trading automaton.


But besides that, it is an interesting question to what extent it makes sense to build some arbitrary automatic trading features right into a trading platform. At first sight, this question might look like "yes I want it, why don't you give it to me!"

But for a proper answer, you should try to understand what makes algorithmic trading so challenging: Just adding some arbitrary price bound mechanism won't do the trick, since for every winning pattern, there are a dozen other patters where the same mechanism will cause you losses. Thus, in the end, most simple automatic features won't pay off: they don't relieve you from the necessity of constantly watching your position on a short timeframe.

Consider for example a limit order, which is the simplest possible automatic trading feature: Your limit order can be placed just a tiny amount too high, so the market doesn't touch it, then changes direction, turns down to create you a huge loss. Or you set a limit order lower, get it filled, and then the market breaks through the next resistance, shots up through the roof, leaving you with a ridiculously small gain and watching the backlights.

Now you could come up with lots of elaborate schemes of combining orders, but you'll just add complexity without changing the basic situation: most times you loose, unless you manage to adjust your orders to the real market situation constantly.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
oh thats so weak and sad Sad

Set a limit price at where the profit pays off your loan. When you wake up you can claim the rest as BTC
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
oh thats so weak and sad Sad
sr. member
Activity: 391
Merit: 250
hey i got a question. lets say i go long with 1btc. i set i limit sellorder which gets filled because the price reached the sellorder limit. do i receive the profit i made in USD or in BTC? and if i received USD is there a way to insta receive the profits from my sellorder in BTC??


If you close your position you get the profit in USD. Yes, you can claim your profit as BTC. See the claim button (under the close button), read here and here how it works.

Hope that helps,
8fold

thx. but lets say i sleep and my sellorder gets filled. is there a way to do the "claim" automatically. because in order to use the claim button i have to be awake Wink

There is no way to claim automatically (let's say with something like a limit order claim - claiming at a certain price point). You would have to be awake.
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
hey i got a question. lets say i go long with 1btc. i set i limit sellorder which gets filled because the price reached the sellorder limit. do i receive the profit i made in USD or in BTC? and if i received USD is there a way to insta receive the profits from my sellorder in BTC??


If you close your position you get the profit in USD. Yes, you can claim your profit as BTC. See the claim button (under the close button), read here and here how it works.

Hope that helps,
8fold

thx. but lets say i sleep and my sellorder gets filled. is there a way to do the "claim" automatically. because in order to use the claim button i have to be awake Wink
sr. member
Activity: 391
Merit: 250
hey i got a question. lets say i go long with 1btc. i set i limit sellorder which gets filled because the price reached the sellorder limit. do i receive the profit i made in USD or in BTC? and if i received USD is there a way to insta receive the profits from my sellorder in BTC??


If you close your position you get the profit in USD. Yes, you can claim your profit as BTC. See the claim button (under the close button), read here and here how it works.

Hope that helps,
8fold
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
hey i got a question. lets say i go long with 1btc. i set i limit sellorder which gets filled because the price reached the sellorder limit. do i receive the profit i made in USD or in BTC? and if i received USD is there a way to insta receive the profits from my sellorder in BTC??
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
BUG
I can't auto-renew my lending offers Cry
no more checkbox
and when i click on "Renew loan" nothing change
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
It's just that at every other refresh of the order book the stamp orders appear/disappear, no further note given.

Edit: Any hint as to why this is happening and when it will be solved? At the typically low order book depth on Bitfinex it's quite scary to rely on a stop loss in this situation.

+1

I am not sure about it, but this probably affects market orders aswell.
I got asks filled that were almost 10 bucks above stamp price.
But those orders could have been bfx-routed (too lazy to calculate if it's still cheaper for a buyer if he has the lowest fees on bfx...or maybe buyer was just dumb).
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
could some one clue me in on how bitfinex is different than bitcoinica...


....  It had a similar system of putting requests through another exchange (MtGox) and having users lend each other money (though at fixed rates).

Both Bitcoinica and Bitfinex have a similar risk from losing the connection to an exchange and thus becoming a bucket shop (where the company has the reverse position of its customers).  Bitfinex runs out of funds on Bitstamp, and most problematically lost its connection to MtGox during the April 2013 crash (MtGox had massive lag during that month due to problems with its trading engine).

Bitfinex may have used the same code base as Bitcoinica, but it has since been modified (and note that Bitcoinica's code had nothing to do with the hack which was related to an email account).

I'd like to add some details to that description (which IMHO is overall accurate).
I used both sites; very little is known about the internals of Bitcoinica beyond what can be concluded from the source code, which was leaked to the community during the turmoil of the final falldown of that platform in Summer 2012.

In a finance-technical sense, both Bitcoinica and Bitfinex offer a derivative instrument called "Contract-for-Difference". Bitcoinica initially was a huge success -- it was the first such platform for the Bitcoin world and arrived just at the right moment, when the Bitcoin market for the first time was not just rising, but turned down -- a time when derivatives become a necessity.  But in the following months, the origin of the money available as credit on Bitcoinica never became clear. The official version was that Bitcoinica was based on some clever formula and in addition to that used the generated profit to increase its ability to lend money. Later, there were some indications that also the money of investors was involved. And there is a nebulous "hedge factor", which was used and adjusted manually during the operation, especially in the last time (and leaked internal documents hint into the direction that the platform started to run into financial problems; but there wasn't enough time for this situation to manifest, since then the 3 hacks happened, basically ruining the financial ability to continue operation)

If there is anything, which sets Bitfinex apart from Bitcoinica, than it is transparency of the financial mechanics. Bitcoinica was completely opaque. As a trader on Bitcoinica, you constantly worked against a spread, which sort-of followed Mt.Gox, yet it was impossible to see how this spread was created, nor was it possible to predict its behaviour. Bitfinex started out with mechanics strikingly similar than Bitcoinica, but one of the first things changed by the Bitfinex people was to replace them with a visible and verifiable link to the underlying market, so you can see the aggregated order book and you can discern the spread between Bid/Ask side clearly from the fees added by Bitfinex for generating revenue. Then, the next and really innovative addition of the Bitfinex people was to create a market for credits, which is driven by demand and supply -- and there is a verifiable link between the rates at which people offer and request credits, and the swap rates you pay (all of this was completely opaque with Bitcoinica)

Maybe we should add the fact that -- independent from the trustworthiness of the operators -- the financial instrument "Contract-for-Difference" has one systemic risk, which is the danger of slippage when executing forced liquidations during a strong market movement. Under normal circumstances, the risks of an open position are covered by your margin, but when performing a forced liquidation of a position, the platform temporarily carries the full risk of that position (until it can actually be closed on the underlying trading account). This risk exists by principle, and can not be overcome by any technical means -- but this risk will only become relevant when the market really collapses without turning back up.
sr. member
Activity: 342
Merit: 250
Please check if you are affected by this security issue: [removed because they ARE affected, sent a PM]
Could you tell us how this affects BFX Users?
Shouldn't be too bad from what I understand - session cookies might be valid longer than expected, so you should take care that they don't (or didn't) get stolen, as it might be possible to log into a quite old session using an old cookie.

I actually like how long sessions last on bitfinex. If they decide to shorten it, I hope we at least have the option to keep the session expiration as is.
legendary
Activity: 1870
Merit: 1023
Something I must bring up-- There are a few posters who have said that bitfinex is the next bitcoinica and have only bad things to say about bitfinex.  As someone that is unfamiliar with the history with bitcoinica (all i know is that bitcoinica was closed down, whether users funds stolen or not, i'm not sure), could some one clue me in on how bitfinex is different than bitcoinica, and what bitfinex's legal status is (for example, could some entity legally shut down bitfinex?)

Thanks


Bitcoinica was created by a 17 year old, sold, and then got hacked (it may have also been hacked once before this?  but for a much smaller sum).  It is currently under (slow-going) liquidation in New Zealand (paradoxically its assets are likely to be greatly in excess of its liabilities as bitcoin is worth 100-200x more than the liquidation price).  It had a similar system of putting requests through another exchange (MtGox) and having users lend each other money (though at fixed rates).

Both Bitcoinica and Bitfinex have a similar risk from losing the connection to an exchange and thus becoming a bucket shop (where the company has the reverse position of its customers).  Bitfinex runs out of funds on Bitstamp, and most problematically lost its connection to MtGox during the April 2013 crash (MtGox had massive lag during that month due to problems with its trading engine).

Bitfinex may have used the same code base as Bitcoinica, but it has since been modified (and note that Bitcoinica's code had nothing to do with the hack which was related to an email account).

I'm not sure about the legal status.
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