As said .. thank andy for testing since January. It helped a lot.
Topic: Old Transcendence ANN - page 18. (Read 41327 times)
The Community guys are running a chain currently with active blockproduction. Currently they are setting up nodes and do some last tests. When everything is stable, it goes on.
As said .. thank andy for testing since January. It helped a lot.
As said .. thank andy for testing since January. It helped a lot.
Instead of talking shit, you could just send commits to GitHub to work on the project.
If you don’t understand your own words:
Telos is open , so why don’t you contribute to it ?
If you don’t understand your own words:
Telos is open , so why don’t you contribute to it ?
Sorry guys .. but the vending machines are in action and done ..
It’s just not the right time for them during corona..
Bluephones.. I am in touch with a German producer or fair phones ..not the Fairphone ..
It will be build around the Greenbox ..
And all I do is targeted at max 1000 people ..
Telos is overfilled will bastards ..
Do you believe I spend a minute more of my life with your kind of people - Andy ?
I give chances .. I decided for myself in January to go telos R and fuck this retarded bastard and his friends ..
I am not going to release anything good before the last Rat got of my boat
I can’t be more honest than this ...
Don’t overestimate telos... it’s just a Name ..
Currently I am not willing to share anything with these people .
Happy joy : )
Maybe to pop some bubbles ...
the Community is smaller and no interesting target audience ..
Instead it believes to have the right to tell me what to do when ?
Lol 😂
Bye bye
It’s just not the right time for them during corona..
Bluephones.. I am in touch with a German producer or fair phones ..not the Fairphone ..
It will be build around the Greenbox ..
And all I do is targeted at max 1000 people ..
Telos is overfilled will bastards ..
Do you believe I spend a minute more of my life with your kind of people - Andy ?
I give chances .. I decided for myself in January to go telos R and fuck this retarded bastard and his friends ..
I am not going to release anything good before the last Rat got of my boat
I can’t be more honest than this ...
Don’t overestimate telos... it’s just a Name ..
Currently I am not willing to share anything with these people .
Happy joy : )
Maybe to pop some bubbles ...
the Community is smaller and no interesting target audience ..
Instead it believes to have the right to tell me what to do when ?
Lol 😂
Bye bye
@unrealandy
Recapping here some things as I have understood them and giving answers to you.
Stealing of coins:
As far as I have understood, there have been two stealing issues you have been talking of. Stake Grinding, and Phantom Nodes.
Stake Grinding I agree with you, that it is actually stealing since stake grinding gives more stake rewards to its users than they should be getting and some of them are away from someone else.
However, as I have mentioned before, this is still a somewhat minor issue in total, since only 10 percent of rewards come from staking, and it seems to me that loads of legitimate stakers are getting staking rewards too, so there can't be too many stake grinder rewards left for them, Just from head, I could imagine it could go somewhere like 1 million at highest, which isn't a small amount, but not that big either (about 10 thousand euros distributed to probably more than one stake grinder).
What comes to Phantom Nodes in which it seems to me that your main claim is based upon it seems to me your proofs are trying to prove that someone is using a Phantom Node. Now in this view, I disagree. I don't see them really stealing those coins, since if they had done it legitimately, they would have received the same amount of node rewards, as they had using Phantom Node, and those are not away from anyone.
They still had to buy the coins for their phantom node, so they didn't have any advantage in that. Only benefit they get is that they don't need to pay server hosting costs, which is maybe 5 Euros a month at max of advantage and this is not a loss for Telos, but for hosting providers.
The harm they cause is that Phantom Nodes don't benefit the network since they don't participate in keeping it up, but from a pure reward point of view, they don't really affect anything.
Similarly, they don't cause others to lose their rewards either, except perhaps indirectly. Because if we look at saving 5 euros a month from hosting, sure, they might be willing to keep hosting their nodes longer than rest, since when others make 2 euros a month, they still make 7 euros a month due to hosting cost saving.
However, considering that especially after Stake Grinding has been found, we have pretty much been on the situation of 100k nodes only making sense, and those costing 1 000 euros a month, I don't think possible 5 euro saving (not to mention there are hosting even around 1 Euro a month) really affects their decision much if they plan on setting up another phantom node or not.
So when you keep talking of someone stealing, was it 25 million your last claim, keep in mind that this stealing happens based upon your definition of stealing.
I believe most would disagree with your definition of someone having stolen 25 million Telos.
Someone is cheating the system, that I agree, but saying that someone is actually stealing them in traditional sense using phantom nodes, and even more, accusing they are stealing from other legitimate node runners, that is a bit of a stretch in my mind.
Another important distinction, since I have noticed that you seem to be using words bit liberally and you also seem to have difficulty in noticing distinctions between things. That basically when you take your proof, they are logical and make sense, as long as you don't try to figure out what was really meant or said by those things you use as proofs. It is always important trying to figure out what other one is trying to say, before making accusations.
Pascal threatened that he will change Telos into just a token, and once again rightfully you asked, where is the voting about it. Indeed, Telos is a democratic coin, etc. that is right, and your question was legitimate, but you missed what Pascal was actually saying, which is actually hard to see without having followed what Pascal has said before mainly in Discord I think.
Pascal created Telos and gave it to the community, and he has honored that deal and worked to provide technicalities to get the fork to reflect the changes upon which community voted for Telos.
However, you have to now understand that Pascal is not Telos. But in practice, Pascal is the driving force behind Telos.
As Pascal has many times pointed out, he has decided to provide he's services against Telos. He could provide he's services against Bitcoin or any other coin out there, but he has chosen to provide them against Telos.
What Pascal does with his business, is not up to community vote, but it is solely Pascals decision. If Pascal one day decides to stop selling anything against Telos, or decides that no more Telos nodes can be run on Blueboxes for example, that is not a community decision, but that is a decision solely resting on Pascals shoulders which he can do or decide not to do, and there is nothing anyone else has a say about it.
So when he says he will make telos a token, he doesn't mean he is going to change the current telos to be a token, but what he means (or my guess is what he means) is that he is going to make a fork from telos, in which the current telos supply becomes just tokens, and then he will stop offering any business against the current Telos, but will only accept this new forked telos tokens for his business.
While current Telos would stay with community, as that is not Pascals decision to make anymore after he has given it to the community, he can practically get Telos killed by not supporting it anymore, since if Pascal doesn't accept Telos as payment for his services etc. then what does Telos have left then anymore? Not much.
So while you thought that he was thinking of changing Telos against community wishes, that is not what he said. What he meant is that he is going to make he's own fork of Telos, which anyone is allowed to do, and then he would focus on that new fork that is based upon he's own sole decisions instead of community decisions.
You can say that would surely be against communitys wishes, but it would still be completely legit, since he wouldn't be changing the current Telos, but simply abandoning it for the community and making another fork instead.
What comes to Bluephones, Aeguanas etc.
You are right with your examples that long, long ago these have already been announced and many of us, me included, expected many of them to be out by now.
However, multiple times in Discord Pascal have mentioned about the way he works, and it has came up also when talking of white papers.
You probably yourself too remember that Pascal have been bit reluctant on making White Papers since as he have himself said, he sees no point in it due to the way he works with projects.
Many times he has said that he keeps working on several projects in parallel, and sometimes he focuses on one, and then switches to another again, depending upon the situation, like if there is something he needs to wait that he can't do anything about it, he simply switches to one where he can get forward.
You can see a good example in Cryptomages game. As far as I understood, close to Christmas it was already close to release, and now we haven't heard about it for a while. So what happened?
Well, this is just my guess, but my guess is Pascal told Allanon to work on something more critical and Allanon hasn't had time to focus on getting Cryptomages forward enough after that.
So yes, there are lots of projects that have been announced and that haven't happened, and perhaps some of them even never will happen, like the Bluephone seems a bit like the original idea have bit ran out of time already. But there are even more projects that have been announced and happened. And yes, some of those have not took off much, but this to my understanding is the google approach that Pascal is doing.
Google basically does a whole bunch of things all the time, they throw them in the open and see how it goes. If it seems to start taking off, they focus on it, if it doesn't, they likely kill it. I believe this is the same approach that Pascal is taking. He makes multiple projects, launches them, and sees how it goes. If it goes well, he makes more to it, if it doesn't seem to take off, then he lets it be for now and perhaps at some point in future does a relaunch with adding something new to it to see if it works better then.
I don't think it is fair to take single projects and point them out, but you have to look at the whole picture, and also understand the picture. You can make same blame on Google, and even more so since more of Googles projects end up dead than succeed. At least Pascals projects haven't died, although many of them haven't succeeded either, but there is nothing unusual about it when using Google strategy.
I meant to write more, but this already took long enough, and this is something you need to take into consideration too. Answering to questions takes time, especially if you start answering to ones like yours where your accusations are mainly based upon misunderstandings or views that only you share. Like you using word Stealing in such a way that others don't agree with it. It is double the effort to answer when you first have to point out that others view on for example "stealing" is not the norm understanding of that word, so I can easily see why Pascal hasn't answered you properly, especially taken into consideration also his nature.
Yes, I fully agree it would be nice if Pascal would be nice and courteous all the time and not hot-headed at all, but I think the same reason that makes him like that, is also the reason why he is able to make so many projects, and even at the same time. Telos is unique in this that we get like one new use case a month or something. Other coins struggle to get that one use case in 3 years, while Pascal spits them out once a month.
So if I have to choose between nice and courteous one use case guy, or hot-headed Pascal with use case a month, I definitely pick Pascal.
If you can find Pascal V2 from whom the hot head bug has been fixed, I will be glad to replace him with the current one, but I don't think one like that exists. It is a whole package deal. Pascal comes with extreme efficiency, but with a nasty bug included, and this is what you need to take into consideration when dealing with him and looking at his comments. He doesn't carefully think every comment he makes. Sometimes we Mods discuss a lot about what did he actually mean with he's latest Announcement, since they are often not clear at all.
This same you need to take into consideration when you keep quoting from him, like the one where he said he makes telos into token. If taken literally, yes, it sounds like he is about to do something he shouldn't, but when you have learned to interpret Pascals language, you understand that is not what he said, but you need to take his sentence in the context of his other comments he has made all around the world, which is, of course, difficult, but just pointing out, keep your mind open that what Pascal's text seems like, might not be what he actually meant, but there might might be loads of text missing from the explanation that would have made it much more clear.
Recapping here some things as I have understood them and giving answers to you.
Stealing of coins:
As far as I have understood, there have been two stealing issues you have been talking of. Stake Grinding, and Phantom Nodes.
Stake Grinding I agree with you, that it is actually stealing since stake grinding gives more stake rewards to its users than they should be getting and some of them are away from someone else.
However, as I have mentioned before, this is still a somewhat minor issue in total, since only 10 percent of rewards come from staking, and it seems to me that loads of legitimate stakers are getting staking rewards too, so there can't be too many stake grinder rewards left for them, Just from head, I could imagine it could go somewhere like 1 million at highest, which isn't a small amount, but not that big either (about 10 thousand euros distributed to probably more than one stake grinder).
What comes to Phantom Nodes in which it seems to me that your main claim is based upon it seems to me your proofs are trying to prove that someone is using a Phantom Node. Now in this view, I disagree. I don't see them really stealing those coins, since if they had done it legitimately, they would have received the same amount of node rewards, as they had using Phantom Node, and those are not away from anyone.
They still had to buy the coins for their phantom node, so they didn't have any advantage in that. Only benefit they get is that they don't need to pay server hosting costs, which is maybe 5 Euros a month at max of advantage and this is not a loss for Telos, but for hosting providers.
The harm they cause is that Phantom Nodes don't benefit the network since they don't participate in keeping it up, but from a pure reward point of view, they don't really affect anything.
Similarly, they don't cause others to lose their rewards either, except perhaps indirectly. Because if we look at saving 5 euros a month from hosting, sure, they might be willing to keep hosting their nodes longer than rest, since when others make 2 euros a month, they still make 7 euros a month due to hosting cost saving.
However, considering that especially after Stake Grinding has been found, we have pretty much been on the situation of 100k nodes only making sense, and those costing 1 000 euros a month, I don't think possible 5 euro saving (not to mention there are hosting even around 1 Euro a month) really affects their decision much if they plan on setting up another phantom node or not.
So when you keep talking of someone stealing, was it 25 million your last claim, keep in mind that this stealing happens based upon your definition of stealing.
I believe most would disagree with your definition of someone having stolen 25 million Telos.
Someone is cheating the system, that I agree, but saying that someone is actually stealing them in traditional sense using phantom nodes, and even more, accusing they are stealing from other legitimate node runners, that is a bit of a stretch in my mind.
Another important distinction, since I have noticed that you seem to be using words bit liberally and you also seem to have difficulty in noticing distinctions between things. That basically when you take your proof, they are logical and make sense, as long as you don't try to figure out what was really meant or said by those things you use as proofs. It is always important trying to figure out what other one is trying to say, before making accusations.
Pascal threatened that he will change Telos into just a token, and once again rightfully you asked, where is the voting about it. Indeed, Telos is a democratic coin, etc. that is right, and your question was legitimate, but you missed what Pascal was actually saying, which is actually hard to see without having followed what Pascal has said before mainly in Discord I think.
Pascal created Telos and gave it to the community, and he has honored that deal and worked to provide technicalities to get the fork to reflect the changes upon which community voted for Telos.
However, you have to now understand that Pascal is not Telos. But in practice, Pascal is the driving force behind Telos.
As Pascal has many times pointed out, he has decided to provide he's services against Telos. He could provide he's services against Bitcoin or any other coin out there, but he has chosen to provide them against Telos.
What Pascal does with his business, is not up to community vote, but it is solely Pascals decision. If Pascal one day decides to stop selling anything against Telos, or decides that no more Telos nodes can be run on Blueboxes for example, that is not a community decision, but that is a decision solely resting on Pascals shoulders which he can do or decide not to do, and there is nothing anyone else has a say about it.
So when he says he will make telos a token, he doesn't mean he is going to change the current telos to be a token, but what he means (or my guess is what he means) is that he is going to make a fork from telos, in which the current telos supply becomes just tokens, and then he will stop offering any business against the current Telos, but will only accept this new forked telos tokens for his business.
While current Telos would stay with community, as that is not Pascals decision to make anymore after he has given it to the community, he can practically get Telos killed by not supporting it anymore, since if Pascal doesn't accept Telos as payment for his services etc. then what does Telos have left then anymore? Not much.
So while you thought that he was thinking of changing Telos against community wishes, that is not what he said. What he meant is that he is going to make he's own fork of Telos, which anyone is allowed to do, and then he would focus on that new fork that is based upon he's own sole decisions instead of community decisions.
You can say that would surely be against communitys wishes, but it would still be completely legit, since he wouldn't be changing the current Telos, but simply abandoning it for the community and making another fork instead.
What comes to Bluephones, Aeguanas etc.
You are right with your examples that long, long ago these have already been announced and many of us, me included, expected many of them to be out by now.
However, multiple times in Discord Pascal have mentioned about the way he works, and it has came up also when talking of white papers.
You probably yourself too remember that Pascal have been bit reluctant on making White Papers since as he have himself said, he sees no point in it due to the way he works with projects.
Many times he has said that he keeps working on several projects in parallel, and sometimes he focuses on one, and then switches to another again, depending upon the situation, like if there is something he needs to wait that he can't do anything about it, he simply switches to one where he can get forward.
You can see a good example in Cryptomages game. As far as I understood, close to Christmas it was already close to release, and now we haven't heard about it for a while. So what happened?
Well, this is just my guess, but my guess is Pascal told Allanon to work on something more critical and Allanon hasn't had time to focus on getting Cryptomages forward enough after that.
So yes, there are lots of projects that have been announced and that haven't happened, and perhaps some of them even never will happen, like the Bluephone seems a bit like the original idea have bit ran out of time already. But there are even more projects that have been announced and happened. And yes, some of those have not took off much, but this to my understanding is the google approach that Pascal is doing.
Google basically does a whole bunch of things all the time, they throw them in the open and see how it goes. If it seems to start taking off, they focus on it, if it doesn't, they likely kill it. I believe this is the same approach that Pascal is taking. He makes multiple projects, launches them, and sees how it goes. If it goes well, he makes more to it, if it doesn't seem to take off, then he lets it be for now and perhaps at some point in future does a relaunch with adding something new to it to see if it works better then.
I don't think it is fair to take single projects and point them out, but you have to look at the whole picture, and also understand the picture. You can make same blame on Google, and even more so since more of Googles projects end up dead than succeed. At least Pascals projects haven't died, although many of them haven't succeeded either, but there is nothing unusual about it when using Google strategy.
I meant to write more, but this already took long enough, and this is something you need to take into consideration too. Answering to questions takes time, especially if you start answering to ones like yours where your accusations are mainly based upon misunderstandings or views that only you share. Like you using word Stealing in such a way that others don't agree with it. It is double the effort to answer when you first have to point out that others view on for example "stealing" is not the norm understanding of that word, so I can easily see why Pascal hasn't answered you properly, especially taken into consideration also his nature.
Yes, I fully agree it would be nice if Pascal would be nice and courteous all the time and not hot-headed at all, but I think the same reason that makes him like that, is also the reason why he is able to make so many projects, and even at the same time. Telos is unique in this that we get like one new use case a month or something. Other coins struggle to get that one use case in 3 years, while Pascal spits them out once a month.
So if I have to choose between nice and courteous one use case guy, or hot-headed Pascal with use case a month, I definitely pick Pascal.
If you can find Pascal V2 from whom the hot head bug has been fixed, I will be glad to replace him with the current one, but I don't think one like that exists. It is a whole package deal. Pascal comes with extreme efficiency, but with a nasty bug included, and this is what you need to take into consideration when dealing with him and looking at his comments. He doesn't carefully think every comment he makes. Sometimes we Mods discuss a lot about what did he actually mean with he's latest Announcement, since they are often not clear at all.
This same you need to take into consideration when you keep quoting from him, like the one where he said he makes telos into token. If taken literally, yes, it sounds like he is about to do something he shouldn't, but when you have learned to interpret Pascals language, you understand that is not what he said, but you need to take his sentence in the context of his other comments he has made all around the world, which is, of course, difficult, but just pointing out, keep your mind open that what Pascal's text seems like, might not be what he actually meant, but there might might be loads of text missing from the explanation that would have made it much more clear.
unrealandy I don’t understand how you are achieving?
Read the code for the new version. It eliminates the possibility of:
1. fake node
2. receiving a stake and MN with one address (although this does not contradict the rules)
All this will stop previous wallet bugs. There is nothing perfect in the world. There is normal work on the development of the coin.
Why are you tedding the past? What happened is what happened. Do you want the rollback of the blockchain to the first case? A fork will happen and everything will fall into place.
phoenxikonsole Never mind and stop getting angry. Just ignore these posts.
Hmm ... is community important to me ? Or is community hindering me by slowing me down while I could just build the projects on other coins covered by their devs ?
Questions over questions
You are trowing stones in a house or Glas
Questions over questions
You are trowing stones in a house or Glas
A wise man changes his mind a fool never will
Edit:
I am not sure if you missed the info .. but we will scan the entire blockchain.
You don’t need to waste your time by manually doing so
Relax
Edit
I hope you are also aware that getting stake and MN rewards to the same address was always possible.
That’s normal. And at the beginning there was no competition should be self explaining too.
We scan .. we release
But for this luxury support I will take my price and will leave you with a worthless telos . And create a fork
That’s my pricetag for the extra work you create
Edit:
I am not sure if you missed the info .. but we will scan the entire blockchain.
You don’t need to waste your time by manually doing so
Relax
Edit
I hope you are also aware that getting stake and MN rewards to the same address was always possible.
That’s normal. And at the beginning there was no competition should be self explaining too.
We scan .. we release
But for this luxury support I will take my price and will leave you with a worthless telos . And create a fork
That’s my pricetag for the extra work you create
Quake are you dumb ?
Telos and Telos R
I am not convinced by the community anymore especially you ... we fix your fucking telos and than I do my own shit as I like it with Telos R...
And now the big question:
What gives a coin more value ? A bug ? A bugfix ?
Or supporters providing usecases ?
Do your own math
You overestimate the importance of a coin ..
Telos and Telos R
I am not convinced by the community anymore especially you ... we fix your fucking telos and than I do my own shit as I like it with Telos R...
And now the big question:
What gives a coin more value ? A bug ? A bugfix ?
Or supporters providing usecases ?
Do your own math
You overestimate the importance of a coin ..
Telos 3 will be released Thursday and we fork again .. than telos 3.1 on tueaday and we fork again ... telos 3.2 will be ready on Thursday next week and we fork again.
Basically we fork now every 3 days
Cat and mouse
Let me know when you got tired
For us the projects are important not the origin of coins .. as you called them in the past they are tickets.
And nothing else they are. The thing is you need the tickets in your hand at the right Time in order to spend them.
If you make more drama here we will disable nodes and staking and just make a token out of telos, as we have already enough supply
Edit :
————————-
Stop believing you are an investor! You got a gift in form of telos .. we Never needed you ... so stop calling you an investor. You should be a member and a follower of the ideas .
If you see yourself as investor : than you are in the wrong thread
Basically we fork now every 3 days
Cat and mouse
Let me know when you got tired
For us the projects are important not the origin of coins .. as you called them in the past they are tickets.
And nothing else they are. The thing is you need the tickets in your hand at the right Time in order to spend them.
If you make more drama here we will disable nodes and staking and just make a token out of telos, as we have already enough supply
Edit :
————————-
Stop believing you are an investor! You got a gift in form of telos .. we Never needed you ... so stop calling you an investor. You should be a member and a follower of the ideas .
If you see yourself as investor : than you are in the wrong thread
Thanks for writing down what I should have done instead of exploding.
Fact is:
Unrealandy and me have the same idea but different language ..
He is pissed and me is pissed about the use of mechanism to betray all members.
I have been also pissed about wallet data being stolen and malware attacking our uses.
So this completely defines the wallet roadmap for the 3.x range now..
Fake nodes .. bye
Stake grinding bye
Wallet dat protection hello
Encryption enforced (user can opt out) hello
Bye bye keys stored in human readable form hello
You can be sure we all want security.. secure users = stability on markets
It’s just the timing and style of open a discussion .. at sunday .. we work .. We improve .. we Fix ... we correct ..
Hello Telos 3
Now enjoy Sunday please
Fact is:
Unrealandy and me have the same idea but different language ..
He is pissed and me is pissed about the use of mechanism to betray all members.
I have been also pissed about wallet data being stolen and malware attacking our uses.
So this completely defines the wallet roadmap for the 3.x range now..
Fake nodes .. bye
Stake grinding bye
Wallet dat protection hello
Encryption enforced (user can opt out) hello
Bye bye keys stored in human readable form hello
You can be sure we all want security.. secure users = stability on markets
It’s just the timing and style of open a discussion .. at sunday .. we work .. We improve .. we Fix ... we correct ..
Hello Telos 3
Now enjoy Sunday please
@unrealandy
To answer some of your questions.
as phoenixkonsole already pointed out, there were two different issues that were voted about. Phantom node and Stake grinding.
Here are the articles I wrote about those voting:
http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/09/16/new-voting-update-telos-to-become-phantom-resistant/
http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/12/17/governance-rocks-has-1-new-voting-and-1-new-bounty/
First of all, I want to point out that I might well be wrong about some details. I am not that technical that I would really know about these things that much, but I am most of the time using sources, like in this case as you yourself pointed out that governance.rocks voting link, it read there that it was from DASH.
It could well be that it isn't right, that it is actually PivX issue, but I still don't know any better, so I most likely used that specific text you linked as my source for that DASH part.
And yes, I believe my article might have affected the voting result, it is very much possible. But understand this, I am not official press, I don't belong to any press associations or anything. I am a private person, a Telos community member, who myself, as an individual decided to put up Telosnews.com in hopes of helping Telos knowledge be spread.
So I don't claim to be neutral, or even right. I am doing this as an amateur/hobbyist, and while I of course aim that my articles actually are right. I don't do any double fact-checking or similar, as regular professional press do. I try to write articles lightweight style, hence if you are going to go through all my articles and do some fact-checking, I am sure there are lots of errors there, but as said. I am not a professional press, just amateur/hobbyist.
And as I am not a professional neutral press, for this same reason I can write my own opinions to articles, as I did with grind staking. It was my opinion at that time that the best way would be to fix it at this upcoming fork, and I agree with you that it might well have affected the end result going towards that way.
What comes to the effect of grind staking and phantom nodes.
I still think the phantom node issue is minor. Only benefit someone gets from using a phantom node, as far as I have understood is, is that he saves the hosting cost. He still needs to put collateral there, so it doesn't really affect other people running their nodes that much.
Grind staking on the other hand has become a worse problem than I at that time thought. I still don't think it is that bad a problem, but it is much more serious than I myself anticipated, but then again, I am not that good on technical things, and my guess is that when it comes to anything master nodes, for example, you are probably many times better than me on those.
However, when you say that it affects your master node running, this sounds odd to me. Since to my understanding stake grinding only affects that someone can get the staking reward even it wouldn't really belong to him.
Hence it shouldn't affect master node rewards directly at all, and hence not affect running master nodes at all. That only way I can see it affecting master node rewards is if you are collecting your master node rewards to be staking, in which case it would affect it, but I would still say quite a minor effect.
This is my understanding of the issue, but of course, I might be wrong.
Also, what comes to your estimation of 15 Million, this would imply that someone has right from beginning been using stake grinding and also got every single stake reward for himself. For if I recall right, stake share have always been 10 percent of the rewards, so to get 15 million through stake grinding, would require stake grinders having got every single stake reward right from the beginning, and I don't think that is true. Even I have got plenty of stake rewards until I turned it off, and I have seen many people in forums claiming they have got staking rewards, so as far as I have understood right, and all people are not lying, it cant be 15 Million.
What comes to your proofs, which by the way were good that you brought to show, there is however one problem with them. For as far as I have understood, same person can both win staking and master node reward on same round. So just showing someone got 200 doesn't mean he used stake grinding, especially at beginning I suppose that would have happened to many people actually. Have you checked your own transactions that have you received those 200 rewards at the beginning? For if I understood right you set up quite many nodes at the beginning, so as long as you also had Telos in that same wallet, I think there's a good chance you have received them too.
But do dig this further, since it would be interesting to see if stake grinding has happened already at beginning times, since basically Telos community didn't become aware of it until the end of 2019, so it would be very interesting to know if someone used it already long before that.
And about the vote community being small. Exactly my point why you alone could have decided the voting to go a different way. For me, I was happy for the voting result, it went exactly as I hoped, but obviously you seem to disagree with it strongly. Voting ended less than half a year ago, and yet you keep here shouting that problem have been ever since, did you say 2018? in here, and your writing even gives the impression like you had been preaching about it ever since 2018, which you obviously didn't, since you didn't participate with couple of votes to make the voting go your way.
To answer some of your questions.
as phoenixkonsole already pointed out, there were two different issues that were voted about. Phantom node and Stake grinding.
Here are the articles I wrote about those voting:
http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/09/16/new-voting-update-telos-to-become-phantom-resistant/
http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/12/17/governance-rocks-has-1-new-voting-and-1-new-bounty/
First of all, I want to point out that I might well be wrong about some details. I am not that technical that I would really know about these things that much, but I am most of the time using sources, like in this case as you yourself pointed out that governance.rocks voting link, it read there that it was from DASH.
It could well be that it isn't right, that it is actually PivX issue, but I still don't know any better, so I most likely used that specific text you linked as my source for that DASH part.
And yes, I believe my article might have affected the voting result, it is very much possible. But understand this, I am not official press, I don't belong to any press associations or anything. I am a private person, a Telos community member, who myself, as an individual decided to put up Telosnews.com in hopes of helping Telos knowledge be spread.
So I don't claim to be neutral, or even right. I am doing this as an amateur/hobbyist, and while I of course aim that my articles actually are right. I don't do any double fact-checking or similar, as regular professional press do. I try to write articles lightweight style, hence if you are going to go through all my articles and do some fact-checking, I am sure there are lots of errors there, but as said. I am not a professional press, just amateur/hobbyist.
And as I am not a professional neutral press, for this same reason I can write my own opinions to articles, as I did with grind staking. It was my opinion at that time that the best way would be to fix it at this upcoming fork, and I agree with you that it might well have affected the end result going towards that way.
What comes to the effect of grind staking and phantom nodes.
I still think the phantom node issue is minor. Only benefit someone gets from using a phantom node, as far as I have understood is, is that he saves the hosting cost. He still needs to put collateral there, so it doesn't really affect other people running their nodes that much.
Grind staking on the other hand has become a worse problem than I at that time thought. I still don't think it is that bad a problem, but it is much more serious than I myself anticipated, but then again, I am not that good on technical things, and my guess is that when it comes to anything master nodes, for example, you are probably many times better than me on those.
However, when you say that it affects your master node running, this sounds odd to me. Since to my understanding stake grinding only affects that someone can get the staking reward even it wouldn't really belong to him.
Hence it shouldn't affect master node rewards directly at all, and hence not affect running master nodes at all. That only way I can see it affecting master node rewards is if you are collecting your master node rewards to be staking, in which case it would affect it, but I would still say quite a minor effect.
This is my understanding of the issue, but of course, I might be wrong.
Also, what comes to your estimation of 15 Million, this would imply that someone has right from beginning been using stake grinding and also got every single stake reward for himself. For if I recall right, stake share have always been 10 percent of the rewards, so to get 15 million through stake grinding, would require stake grinders having got every single stake reward right from the beginning, and I don't think that is true. Even I have got plenty of stake rewards until I turned it off, and I have seen many people in forums claiming they have got staking rewards, so as far as I have understood right, and all people are not lying, it cant be 15 Million.
What comes to your proofs, which by the way were good that you brought to show, there is however one problem with them. For as far as I have understood, same person can both win staking and master node reward on same round. So just showing someone got 200 doesn't mean he used stake grinding, especially at beginning I suppose that would have happened to many people actually. Have you checked your own transactions that have you received those 200 rewards at the beginning? For if I understood right you set up quite many nodes at the beginning, so as long as you also had Telos in that same wallet, I think there's a good chance you have received them too.
But do dig this further, since it would be interesting to see if stake grinding has happened already at beginning times, since basically Telos community didn't become aware of it until the end of 2019, so it would be very interesting to know if someone used it already long before that.
And about the vote community being small. Exactly my point why you alone could have decided the voting to go a different way. For me, I was happy for the voting result, it went exactly as I hoped, but obviously you seem to disagree with it strongly. Voting ended less than half a year ago, and yet you keep here shouting that problem have been ever since, did you say 2018? in here, and your writing even gives the impression like you had been preaching about it ever since 2018, which you obviously didn't, since you didn't participate with couple of votes to make the voting go your way.
please update the quote i add "like others shooting ducks"
@MODS .. please lock this thread : ) It won't get any better
@MODS .. please lock this thread : ) It won't get any better
ooohhh lord..
The dash error is about Fakenodes
You mix up 2 failures!
Please let us do our work now and fuck off
We solved 2 issues you idiot..
please follow everything or stop playing the "SEEING ONE"..
You are not following all announcements so you have huge gaps in knowing what has been done ..
So stop here you waste my time.
Bye..
I ask for locking the thread by bitcointalk mods.
The dash error is about Fakenodes
You mix up 2 failures!
Please let us do our work now and fuck off
We solved 2 issues you idiot..
please follow everything or stop playing the "SEEING ONE"..
You are not following all announcements so you have huge gaps in knowing what has been done ..
So stop here you waste my time.
Bye..
I ask for locking the thread by bitcointalk mods.
Look man...
you manipulated prices each new fork happened...
you manipulated votings by paying people...
Your TELOS is no longer my TELOS.
I fork and continue with my shit..
YOU DON'T EVEN NOW THAT THE SCRIPT IS ON HOLD BECAUSE WE ARE CLOSE TO RELEASE TELOS 3..
SO YOU ARE NOT INFORMED AT ALL ABOUT WHATS GOING ON AS YOU JUST STAY BUSY WITH MANIPULATING PEOPLE
So why should lobo release a script, which asks for a massternodeprivatekey if we are going to ditch this in the new Wallet ?
Instead of following development you go on and MANIPULATE..
Whitepaper is still valid but for my TELOS.. not your TELOS.
Community moved thanks to you from my personal route away.
So my Whitepaper is not yours anymore ... else you wouldn't steal money and you wouldn't manipulate voting to go against my suggestions.
Now we have a halving and high Collateral..
This makes fulfilment of the roadmap more difficult than necessary to me and i need a new TELOS.. or just any coin out there and ditch TELOS (less work, more time)
Split of interests = FORK away and SPLIT community.
This is why all the Bitcoin Forks do exist:
People start to hate each other and people go their own routes.
Next time when you play manipulator think twice because to Quote your own words "KARMA". What you get now is Revenge for every mindfuck you did the last 2 years.
TELOS itself is replaceable .. i can just build services on top of BTC and that's it.
Where is your "support"... you bloodsucking manipulating person ?
So here we are:
A DEV with unsupportive community and his commercial interests
And you a Manipulating Person making things more annoying than required.
So what is your "constructive" solution ?
Do you have an idea ?
Anything to bring on the table as solution ?
?
Let me know..
EDIT:
just for the record:
Your TELOS is not my TELOS statement is 6 months old... you had 6 months and many peaks in value to sell off your TELOS and leave normal people in the community.
I suggest an OTC so you can go and never come back to us.
As you still stay here it is obviously again a mind fuck against the project to manipulate people and buy cheap into TELOS.
I don't accept this and will destroy TELOS before you sucker make any money out of it.
you manipulated prices each new fork happened...
you manipulated votings by paying people...
Your TELOS is no longer my TELOS.
I fork and continue with my shit..
YOU DON'T EVEN NOW THAT THE SCRIPT IS ON HOLD BECAUSE WE ARE CLOSE TO RELEASE TELOS 3..
SO YOU ARE NOT INFORMED AT ALL ABOUT WHATS GOING ON AS YOU JUST STAY BUSY WITH MANIPULATING PEOPLE
So why should lobo release a script, which asks for a massternodeprivatekey if we are going to ditch this in the new Wallet ?
Instead of following development you go on and MANIPULATE..
Whitepaper is still valid but for my TELOS.. not your TELOS.
Community moved thanks to you from my personal route away.
So my Whitepaper is not yours anymore ... else you wouldn't steal money and you wouldn't manipulate voting to go against my suggestions.
Now we have a halving and high Collateral..
This makes fulfilment of the roadmap more difficult than necessary to me and i need a new TELOS.. or just any coin out there and ditch TELOS (less work, more time)
Split of interests = FORK away and SPLIT community.
This is why all the Bitcoin Forks do exist:
People start to hate each other and people go their own routes.
Next time when you play manipulator think twice because to Quote your own words "KARMA". What you get now is Revenge for every mindfuck you did the last 2 years.
TELOS itself is replaceable .. i can just build services on top of BTC and that's it.
Where is your "support"... you bloodsucking manipulating person ?
So here we are:
A DEV with unsupportive community and his commercial interests
And you a Manipulating Person making things more annoying than required.
So what is your "constructive" solution ?
Do you have an idea ?
Anything to bring on the table as solution ?
?
Let me know..
EDIT:
just for the record:
Your TELOS is not my TELOS statement is 6 months old... you had 6 months and many peaks in value to sell off your TELOS and leave normal people in the community.
I suggest an OTC so you can go and never come back to us.
As you still stay here it is obviously again a mind fuck against the project to manipulate people and buy cheap into TELOS.
I don't accept this and will destroy TELOS before you sucker make any money out of it.
Man you manipulated the votings by paying people to vote for collateral increase and halving ..
So stay calm ..
The script my friend is from lobo a now 18years old kid who did it as community member ...
Sorry guys but if you rely on scripts you shouldn’t be allowed at all to run nodes
Download the wallet And enter in transcendence.conf:
Masternode=1
Masternodeprivkey=blablabla
You need a script for this?
Telos lacks only one thing:
An idiot test before being allowed to run the wallet.
So stay calm ..
The script my friend is from lobo a now 18years old kid who did it as community member ...
Sorry guys but if you rely on scripts you shouldn’t be allowed at all to run nodes
Download the wallet And enter in transcendence.conf:
Masternode=1
Masternodeprivkey=blablabla
You need a script for this?
Telos lacks only one thing:
An idiot test before being allowed to run the wallet.
Well .. if you don’t trust me or you don’t trust that we clean it afterward „Aftermath“ by blockchain analyzes it is your problem.
If you don’t accept votings it is yours too.
I am on your side and don’t accept voting result too but in that case I need to fork away from community .. the Community decided and we follow. Or not ?
If I need other things, I will do it in my own private fork differently
You have been invited to do the same back than ..
The 2.1 wallet was ready in January .. so you could have just taken it and fork with the members who Didn’t like the votings ..
Why didn’t you provide a clean fork than if it was your decision ?
Anyway I told you 20times you make me tired.
I go now my private route and don’t stand with you or the community.
Make what you want but without me ...
About mods ..
I have no influence on them ..
It’s community
Don’t acting as a ape throwing his own poo may help to stay unbanned.
As this discussions keep me away from work I am out and will never join this thread again.
If you don’t accept votings it is yours too.
I am on your side and don’t accept voting result too but in that case I need to fork away from community .. the Community decided and we follow. Or not ?
If I need other things, I will do it in my own private fork differently
You have been invited to do the same back than ..
The 2.1 wallet was ready in January .. so you could have just taken it and fork with the members who Didn’t like the votings ..
Why didn’t you provide a clean fork than if it was your decision ?
Anyway I told you 20times you make me tired.
I go now my private route and don’t stand with you or the community.
Make what you want but without me ...
About mods ..
I have no influence on them ..
It’s community
Don’t acting as a ape throwing his own poo may help to stay unbanned.
As this discussions keep me away from work I am out and will never join this thread again.
https://forum.teloscoin.org replaces discord. This was on the todo since over a year but lately the anoying Scams and more annoying discussions have motivated me to press the button and delete it to enforce the switch.
Because of that there is also the alternative purely community driven discord.
Because of that there is also the alternative purely community driven discord.
Why official discord was deleted?
Can i find any archive of discord chat? It was great source of knowgledge about Transcendence Telos
Can i find any archive of discord chat? It was great source of knowgledge about Transcendence Telos
@unrealandy
Just to remind you once again.
There was a vote about Phantom Resistance fix: http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/09/16/new-voting-update-telos-to-become-phantom-resistant/
and there was a vote about stake grinding fix too: http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/12/17/governance-rocks-has-1-new-voting-and-1-new-bounty/
In both cases, the vote result was to wait until the fork that is now going to happen about two weeks later.
You had a chance to vote about it, just like anyone else did, and yet you chose not to throw enough votes in favor of fixing it immediately.
Should vote results be honored or not?
edit: almost forgot to say. Thanks for archiving this bitcointalk thread to waybackmachine, it is unfortunate we didn't get to archive the contents of the official discord too.
Just to remind you once again.
There was a vote about Phantom Resistance fix: http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/09/16/new-voting-update-telos-to-become-phantom-resistant/
and there was a vote about stake grinding fix too: http://telosnews.com/index.php/2019/12/17/governance-rocks-has-1-new-voting-and-1-new-bounty/
In both cases, the vote result was to wait until the fork that is now going to happen about two weeks later.
You had a chance to vote about it, just like anyone else did, and yet you chose not to throw enough votes in favor of fixing it immediately.
Should vote results be honored or not?
edit: almost forgot to say. Thanks for archiving this bitcointalk thread to waybackmachine, it is unfortunate we didn't get to archive the contents of the official discord too.
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